SV Sound PB-12NSD Subwoofer Preview

gtpsuper24

gtpsuper24

Full Audioholic
The HSU VTF-15H is an incredible value that didn't exist 6 years ago. It's also quite a large box. The PB-12Plus DSP is an engineering marvel IMO. It also didn't exist like it does today, 6 years ago.
So you could say Axiom just watched the ball sail right on by and didn't care. Where is all of this research and development Axiom always talks about? It took 6+ years to develope magnetic grills?

Look at what SVS has done in 6yrs or eD. Entire model lines refreshed and with significant improvements, plus 2-3 new speaker lines, new sealed subs, ect. Axiom magnetic grills, silver dust caps, and the VP180.

Its kind of sad really. Back before I knew much about audio, back when I though Sony speakers were the best :eek: I seen the Axiom EP600 and though wow look at that monster of a sub. Thats not the case anymore.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
I read on Axioms forum someone said the EP600 isn't worth it cause of the big hollow cabinet and no bracing, and the Axiomites said they love the distortion from that cause it add warmth to the sound? :confused:
People "love distortion " only when they're stuck with it.
People "hate distortion" only when they know they're not stuck with it.

Most of us just live with distortion in some way or another.
 
K

kini

Full Audioholic
Thanks for the info on the Axiom. I'll be skipping it.

I'll be eagerly awaiting testing on the new SW115 and hopefully a Velodyne EQ-Max 12 or 15.

ID subs are out for me due to exorbitant shipping charges. :(

Gene (too)
 
MinusTheBear

MinusTheBear

Audioholic Ninja
AH did a 1 meter groundplane on the EP125 in 09. Its actually a useless sub unless your listening room is a closet. Not even sure why they even have it in their product line. I imagine that thing will make all kinds of unwanted nasties during dynamic Blu-ray movie playback. If you go onto the EP350 and up, their not terrible products just overpriced when compared to the build quality and performance of their competition particularly IMO SVS, Rythmik and Funk Audio.

 
gtpsuper24

gtpsuper24

Full Audioholic
AH did a 1 meter groundplane on the EP125 in 09. Its actually a useless sub unless your listening room is a closet. Not even sure why they even have it in their product line. I imagine that thing will make all kinds of unwanted nasties during dynamic Blu-ray movie playback. If you go onto the EP350 and up, their not terrible products just overpriced when compared to the build quality and performance of their competition particularly IMO SVS, Rythmik and Funk Audio.

I have the EP175 used with a soundbar, got the EP175 off Craigslist. It doesn't add much, and I would never pay the almost $600 price. My Arx A2s with XBL2 woofers put out stronger bass down to 45hrz than it does. The EP125 isn't even good enought go be a midbass woofer, really.

Why do they have it in their lineup. Probably dirt cheap to produce, very high profit margins.

I really feel that Axiom doesn't care about their image any more. Use alot of money to market the product and sell to people who don't know much about audio.

They are the ID version of Bose, Marketing and bogus Research and Development, and use cheap oversea parts and hollow cabinets. I actually heard that the new V3 drivers are worst than the V2 drivers they are even cheaper quality.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
AH did a 1 meter groundplane on the EP125 in 09. Its actually a useless sub unless your listening room is a closet. Not even sure why they even have it in their product line. I imagine that thing will make all kinds of unwanted nasties during dynamic Blu-ray movie playback. If you go onto the EP350 and up, their not terrible products just overpriced when compared to the build quality and performance of their competition particularly IMO SVS, Rythmik and Funk Audio.

Wow that's a ported sub too? That's probably worse than the Dayton Sub-120
 
MinusTheBear

MinusTheBear

Audioholic Ninja
Axiom does put a lot of effort into marketing. Their build quality isn't on par with the other ID manufacturers IMO. I feel their prices should be lower than their competition not on par or higher meaning overpriced.

However, within the last year or so Axiom hired a very talented engineer and speaker designer from Mirage. So perhaps they come out with some cool products going forward. The majority of their speaker product right now is just based on the base models they came out with a decade ago.
 
gtpsuper24

gtpsuper24

Full Audioholic
Thanks for the info on the Axiom. I'll be skipping it.

I'll be eagerly awaiting testing on the new SW115 and hopefully a Velodyne EQ-Max 12 or 15.

ID subs are out for me due to exorbitant shipping charges. :(

Gene (too)
Where are you located? You really don't get free shipping with the Axioms you get a cheaper subwoofer with and expensive price tag to make up for the so called free shipping. I would rather pay an extra $200 shipping for the PB12NSD than get the Axiom EP500 with free shipping. I pay more for SVS products since I'm in Ohio and have to pay sales tax on SVS's. Its about and extra $133 for the Ultra :(
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
Thanks, I didn't see it listed just seen the Aug 25, 2010 date. Which I though was weird cause I didn't remember Axiom having a sub tested recently.

I just stumbled across it googling, cause I posted on Axioms forum in a response to someone asking about the SVS Ultra vs the EP800 or SubM. I posted that Axiom's subs are poor performers and don't offer the bang for the buck like other brands do, and the designs are dated.

I said "for the price Axiom subs suck" and that started a debate so I just was looking for some reviews.
LMAO...JC mentions that the sub might have been modified hence why it didn't perform as it should.....:D.

That's why I don't even bother with those folk....I might give my brother my 22's and q4's (for free) just so I could go with the Ascend all the way around.

PS: Now you'll be accused of stirring the pot.....:D
 
Last edited:
gtpsuper24

gtpsuper24

Full Audioholic
LMAO...JC mentions that the sub might have been modified hence why it didn't perform as it should.....:D.

That's why I don't even bother with those folk....I might give my brother my 22's and q4's (for free) just so I could go with the Ascend all the way around.

PS: Now you'll be accused of stirring the pot.....:D

I guess that my opinion doesn't count over there unless its a glowing review. I hardly ever post over there either, it usually just small talk. Anyone that posts that has a problem with their Axiom speakers usually gets the "well its not Axioms fault they make perfect speakers so you must have done something wrong" response.

If you stop and think about it Axiom always says that they are busy researching and engineering, I think on what???? You never release any thing its the same stuff since the early/mid 2000s.

Take a time line of Axioms V1 line and compare what they have done compared to other brands.

SVS: 2 new speaker lines plus refreshes, inwalls, constant improving their PB and PC lines adding sealed subwoofers.
eD: 4 new speaker lines plus a slight refresh, subs subs subs.
Emotiva: 3 speaker lines, refreshes on their amps, new sealed subs plus refreshes.

What has Axiom done? The VP180 center, silver dust caps and mag grills. No wonder the Axiomites never have anything to talk about.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Hey guys, if you want to discuss Axiom stuff, how about starting a dedicated thread on it. It's best to keep this thread on topic which is the SVS sub previewed in the article associated with this thread. thanks and back to research :D
 
K

kini

Full Audioholic
Where are you located? You really don't get free shipping with the Axioms you get a cheaper subwoofer with and expensive price tag to make up for the so called free shipping. I would rather pay an extra $200 shipping for the PB12NSD than get the Axiom EP500 with free shipping. I pay more for SVS products since I'm in Ohio and have to pay sales tax on SVS's. Its about and extra $133 for the Ultra :(
Yep, Hawaii.

Like I said I'll be skipping the (not mentionable anymore) sub.

I would rather pay or over pay for a Klipsch or Velodyne and get "free" shipping and peace of mind that comes from buying from Crutchfield or Amazon than let UPS or Fed Ex bend me over and stick it to me.

For me going the ID route is too risky should I not like the product or if it is defective.
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
I noticed the new Svs banner...it's nice to see that Svs and Audioholics have reconciled their differences and started a new working relationship.:cool:
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I noticed the new Svs banner...it's nice to see that Svs and Audioholics have reconciled their differences and started a new working relationship.:cool:
Ed Mullen and the new crew at SVS are top notch and an absolute pleasure to work with. This company is really on fire with competently staffed people and a full array of industry trend setting products. Best of all they listen to criticisms and feedback with open minds and are passionate about making the best products they know how. We're very excited to be working with a company like SVS!
 
D

DS-21

Full Audioholic
Guess SVS is back to using OEM drivers.



I'd be shocked if that driver wasn't an OEM variant of Peerless's XXLS, based on the basket shape and quoted driver marketing buzzwords, umm I mean design details.

The only inconsistent feature mentioned in the article is the pole piece vent. The XLS/XXLS drivers actually vent the coil through perimeter holes in the cone.


Perhaps the mention of a pole vent is simply a miscommunication.

Not, of course, that there's anything at all wrong with the XLS/XXLS line. The ur-XLS12 (830500) is one of my favorite subwoofer drivers, and I have five of 'em around, along with five of the matching PR's.

This sub uses four of 'em.

An XXLS-based powered sub for under 800 USD is quite a good deal, I think, considering that just the driver alone is $200-250 for hobbyists.
 
Last edited:
Axiomaudio

Axiomaudio

Manufacturer
If you stop and think about it Axiom always says that they are busy researching and engineering, I think on what???? You never release any thing its the same stuff since the early/mid 2000s.

Take a time line of Axioms V1 line and compare what they have done compared to other brands.

SVS: 2 new speaker lines plus refreshes, inwalls, constant improving their PB and PC lines adding sealed subwoofers.
eD: 4 new speaker lines plus a slight refresh, subs subs subs.
Emotiva: 3 speaker lines, refreshes on their amps, new sealed subs plus refreshes.

What has Axiom done? The VP180 center, silver dust caps and mag grills. No wonder the Axiomites never have anything to talk about.
Chad, I see that 'all the money' Axiom spends on marketing isn't working at all if you think the only new product we've produced since 2000 is the VP180.

The EP400, EP500, EP600, and EP800 DSP subwoofers were all produced since 2000.

The entire in-wall/on-wall hybrid line of speakers (which won a Product of the Year Award from Audioholics) were produced since then.

Our outdoor speakers were introduced since then.

We launched our Customize-Yours options, which allow customers to order their speakers in any of over 100 possible finishes - or any finish they want at all, matched to an existing piece of furniture or wall color - shipped in 20 business days.

We developed and launched the A1400 amplifier.

We developed and launched an in-wall line of speakers.

We developed a created power-mount to make mounting on-wall speakers much easier and made the technology work on our QS surround speakers.

We created an in-cabinet line up of speakers for customers who want to create built-in entertainment walls.

We engineered an on-wall version of our speakers for customers who can’t or don’t want to put holes in their walls.

And there has been a v2 and a v3 of the core speaker line, or 'refreshes' as you refer to them when discussing other speaker brands, above.

It has certainly been a lot more than "What has Axiom done? The VP180 center, silver dust caps and mag grills." Chad, I understand you’re disappointed by Axiom – that’s abundantly clear as you post it on every forum you can – but I do think your statement needs correcting.

Gene, I'm sorry for posting on this thread after you had asked to reroute it to SVS again, and I understand if you need to move it. I won’t post again to it and my apologies to you and to SVS. I hope you will understand and accept my apologies.
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
Chad, I see that 'all the money' Axiom spends on marketing isn't working at all if you think the only new product we've produced since 2000 is the VP180.

The EP400, EP500, EP600, and EP800 DSP subwoofers were all produced since 2000.

The entire in-wall/on-wall hybrid line of speakers (which won a Product of the Year Award from Audioholics) were produced since then.

Our outdoor speakers were introduced since then.

We launched our Customize-Yours options, which allow customers to order their speakers in any of over 100 possible finishes - or any finish they want at all, matched to an existing piece of furniture or wall color - shipped in 20 business days.

We developed and launched the A1400 amplifier.

We developed and launched an in-wall line of speakers.

We developed a created power-mount to make mounting on-wall speakers much easier and made the technology work on our QS surround speakers.

We created an in-cabinet line up of speakers for customers who want to create built-in entertainment walls.

We engineered an on-wall version of our speakers for customers who can’t or don’t want to put holes in their walls.

And there has been a v2 and a v3 of the core speaker line, or 'refreshes' as you refer to them when discussing other speaker brands, above.

It has certainly been a lot more than "What has Axiom done? The VP180 center, silver dust caps and mag grills." Chad, I understand you’re disappointed by Axiom – that’s abundantly clear as you post it on every forum you can – but I do think your statement needs correcting.

Gene, I'm sorry for posting on this thread after you had asked to reroute it to SVS again, and I understand if you need to move it. I won’t post again to it and my apologies to you and to SVS. I hope you will understand and accept my apologies.
I am not sure why you posted these remarks here..when Chad (gtpsuper24) is involved in an opoen discusion at your very froum...:confused:

Maybe you should cc this and post it over in one of the sub forum over @ AVS too...:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
zhimbo

zhimbo

Audioholic General
I am not sure you posted your remarks here..when Chad (gtpsuper24) is involved in an opoen discusion at your very froum...:rolleyes:
I don't really see the mystery. The conversation exists here, they replied to it here. Seems obvious to me.

Axiom is hardly the first manufacturer to pop up in Audioholics with their point of view.
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
I don't really see the mystery. The conversation exists here, they replied to it here. Seems obvious to me.

Axiom is hardly the first manufacturer to pop up in Audioholics with their point of view.
Have you followed the thread over at Axiom...I am...fwiw.
 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top