stereo receiver suggestions for Polk RTiA9 speakers

E

Eazerad

Audiophyte
Hi Guys,

I am an audiophile novices, meaning that I love full warm crisp sound when listening to (mainly) Jazz and classical, but also care about my budget.

I just got a pair of Polk RTiA9 to replace my Polk monitor 70 series II. The specs of the RTiA9 can be see on Polks website at the following link:
https://www.polkaudio.com/products/rtia9

The amp I currently have is a Yamaha HTR-6030
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/htr/htr-6030_black__u/


I was wondering if this amp is adequate for these speakers as, from my understanding, they are quite "power hungry".

If the amp is not adequate (i.e.will not let me enjoy the speaker's full capabilities) what would you recommend that would be relatively affordable (say under 1,000$). This is strictly used for Music so 2.1 is perfectly fine. I do not need multiple channels.

Greatly appreciate your suggestions and help !
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
They are 90dB sensitive and nominal 8 ohm impedance (minimum impedance of 4.4 ohm) so not particularly power hungry. The power you'd need would depend on the distance you are from the speakers and the SPLs you're trying to achieve. Are you currently having problems/issues playing these as loud as you like?

ps If you do want a 2.1 setup most avrs have bass management whereas most 2ch units don't.
 
Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
I believe harman has a receiver with bass management. The speakers in question though really don't need a sub. Any solid state amplifier that is designed properly will sound exactly the same operating within its rated power output. If you truly want a colored warm and fuzzy sound you'd need to look into valve amplifiers.
 
Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
They are 90dB sensitive and nominal 8 ohm impedance (minimum impedance of 4.4 ohm) so not particularly power hungry. The power you'd need would depend on the distance you are from the speakers and the SPLs you're trying to achieve. Are you currently having problems/issues playing these as loud as you like?

ps If you do want a 2.1 setup most avrs have bass management whereas most 2ch units don't.
Avrs also have significantly more headroom due to much more robust power supplies in 2ch mode than stereo receivers.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Hi Guys,

I am an audiophile novices, meaning that I love full warm crisp sound when listening to (mainly) Jazz and classical, but also care about my budget.

I just got a pair of Polk RTiA9 to replace my Polk monitor 70 series II. The specs of the RTiA9 can be see on Polks website at the following link:
https://www.polkaudio.com/products/rtia9

The amp I currently have is a Yamaha HTR-6030
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/htr/htr-6030_black__u/


I was wondering if this amp is adequate for these speakers as, from my understanding, they are quite "power hungry".

If the amp is not adequate (i.e.will not let me enjoy the speaker's full capabilities) what would you recommend that would be relatively affordable (say under 1,000$). This is strictly used for Music so 2.1 is perfectly fine. I do not need multiple channels.

Greatly appreciate your suggestions and help !
For $699 including warranty and Audyssey XT32/SubEQHT, THIS one will beat any HK stereo receiver in two channel driven output.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Stereophile: In the Lab said:
The RTi A9’s listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +0.61/–2.91 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3-dB point is at 49 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 40 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 4.49 ohms at 67 Hz and a phase angle of –49.39 degrees at 22 Hz.
Depending on how loud you listen, the size of the room, and the dynamics of the program material, you could certainly benefit from having a solid source of amplification. The HTR-6030, as you guessed, is not plentiful in this department. It was mentioned that the speakers are specified to have 90dB efficiency pink noise 1 watt at a distance of 1 meter. If I've learned one thing in my pursuit of audio nirvana, speaker specs are little more than a guide and are often optimistic. Just looking at their stated frequency response lends credence to that statement. They specify two frequency responses, (total frequency response / 18 Hz - 27 kHz) and (lower and upper limits -3 dB / 30 Hz - 26 kHz). As we see above independent measurements provided by Stereophile's lab indicate the FR is in fact 49 Hz / -3 dB. That's a pretty large disparity between the provided specifications and the measured performance.


Another factor we should look at is the the lower impedance at a high energy frequency as shown in Stereophile's measurements of this system. Because so much high energy content can and often does occur around 60 Hz we can assume that this will call for a lot of power for the speaker to perform it's full dynamic capabilities. For additional fun the RTi-A9 has near to as makes no difference - 50 degree phase angle at 22 Hz, so organs and other extreme low frequencies are going to call for near 4 times the current to maintain output (based on my limited understanding of phase angles).

So yeah, the RTi-A9 would certainly benefit from some good, clean, and large amounts of power.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Avrs also have significantly more headroom due to much more robust power supplies in 2ch mode than stereo receivers.
Not necessarily. Sadly PSUs in low to mid level receivers these days are less robust than they were even 5 years ago. You'll be hard pressed to find low to mid level AVRs that will break 22 lbs. on a scale.

As for OP, if you have a budget of $1000 or under, I'd suggest looking for gently used and well maintained separates. Adcom power amps are very good options for 2 channel requirements and have plenty of dynamic headroom to handle the RTi-A9s.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Not necessarily. Sadly PSUs in low to mid level receivers these days are less robust than they were even 5 years ago. You'll be hard pressed to find low to mid level AVRs that will break 22 lbs. on a scale.

As for OP, if you have a budget of $1000 or under, I'd suggest looking for gently used and well maintained separates. Adcom power amps are very good options for 2 channel requirements and have plenty of dynamic headroom to handle the RTi-A9s.
Sadly you can't buy the two ch gear you refer to for the price of a mid level avr like the one Peng suggested and it won't have bass management for the sub the OP referred to (which would also negate any concern for trying to get 22hz performance from these speakers as well as not having the avr amp trying to deal with such). Buying 30 year old amps you may or may not do well, great if you can repair your own stuff or have a good shop nearby; it certainly won't have bass management and these speakers definitely need help from a sub IMO.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I believe harman has a receiver with bass management. The speakers in question though really don't need a sub. Any solid state amplifier that is designed properly will sound exactly the same operating within its rated power output. If you truly want a colored warm and fuzzy sound you'd need to look into valve amplifiers.
I believe Harman has exited the receiver business....what model are you referring to?
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Sadly you can't buy the two ch gear you refer to for the price of a mid level avr like the one Peng suggested and it won't have bass management for the sub the OP referred to (which would also negate any concern for trying to get 22hz performance from these speakers as well as not having the avr amp trying to deal with such). Buying 30 year old amps you may or may not do well, great if you can repair your own stuff or have a good shop nearby; it certainly won't have bass management and these speakers definitely need help from a sub IMO.

Beyond him saying he's going to be running a 2.1 system, I didn't see him mention bass management. It seems inherently implied I suppose, but we should hear back from him on whether or not he's using a subwoofer.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Beyond him saying he's going to be running a 2.1 system, I didn't see him mention bass management. It seems inherently implied I suppose, but we should hear back from him on whether or not he's using a subwoofer.
True, plus his actual listening levels for amp needs.
 
Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
Depending on how loud you listen, the size of the room, and the dynamics of the program material, you could certainly benefit from having a solid source of amplification. The HTR-6030, as you guessed, is not plentiful in this department. It was mentioned that the speakers are specified to have 90dB efficiency pink noise 1 watt at a distance of 1 meter. If I've learned one thing in my pursuit of audio nirvana, speaker specs are little more than a guide and are often optimistic. Just looking at their stated frequency response lends credence to that statement. They specify two frequency responses, (total frequency response / 18 Hz - 27 kHz) and (lower and upper limits -3 dB / 30 Hz - 26 kHz). As we see above independent measurements provided by Stereophile's lab indicate the FR is in fact 49 Hz / -3 dB. That's a pretty large disparity between the provided specifications and the measured performance.


Another factor we should look at is the the lower impedance at a high energy frequency as shown in Stereophile's measurements of this system. Because so much high energy content can and often does occur around 60 Hz we can assume that this will call for a lot of power for the speaker to perform it's full dynamic capabilities. For additional fun the RTi-A9 has near to as makes no difference - 50 degree phase angle at 22 Hz, so organs and other extreme low frequencies are going to call for near 4 times the current to maintain output (based on my limited understanding of phase angles).

So yeah, the RTi-A9 would certainly benefit from some good, clean, and large amounts of power.
A ~4 1/2 ohm load is not uncommon at certain frequencies in most speakers. It's 2 and 3 ohm loads that can become an issue and a majority of ported speakers are going to draw large amounts of power below there -3 dB point. The speakers I'm using have a similar phase angle at 111hz, where there is far more musical content and even male voice content, and I have no trouble driving them on a 100wpc receiver.

If the speakers truly do roll off that high (which doesn't seem right based on the reviews), and one intends to listen to music with significant amounts of content below that frequency, a subwoofer should be used. It's why we don't run the LFE through our mains and expect good results. Humans already can't hear bass very well, if a speaker is -12dB at 20hz, at a listening level of 80dB it's below the threshold of hearing. If he isn't planning on using a sub, it's definitely something that should be considered.
Not necessarily. Sadly PSUs in low to mid level receivers these days are less robust than they were even 5 years ago. You'll be hard pressed to find low to mid level AVRs that will break 22 lbs. on a scale.

As for OP, if you have a budget of $1000 or under, I'd suggest looking for gently used and well maintained separates. Adcom power amps are very good options for 2 channel requirements and have plenty of dynamic headroom to handle the RTi-A9s.
That's true, but couldn't a used receiver fit that function? You can get a Marantz SR 7400 on ebay for around $100. It's rated for 130 wpc ACD 20hz-20khz and weighs about 30lbs. IIRC it has a large toroidal transformer in it that takes up over 1/3rd of the receivers space. As someone who has previously owned one, I can vouch that it can reach painful levels of volume without breaking a sweat.

Regardless, it really depends on what sort of spl level he is looking to get. While the sensitivity doesn't tell the whole story, it still rings true that 1w/1m is what you'll get across the majority of the frequency range. Add in room reflections and you can gain as much as 3dB. With these speakers, a mere 50wpc at a distance of 12 feet would yield 98dB, an unsafe listening level. At 100wpc, 103dB. Add in room reflections and you get 106dB. People seriously over estimate the amount of power they need. Not to mention one must double the amount of power just to get a 3dB increase. If he were using them for a large dedicated home theater and listening at reference volume a case could be made for external amplification, but for his purposes any receiver that is rated at 100wpc 2ch driven 20hz-20khz FTC will fit the bill.

I stop paying attention to reviews when reviewers claim that a speaker "really opens up with large amounts of power". Either the amplifier is capable of driving them without distortion at a specific SPL or they're not. For once I'd like to see someone say it "really stops clipping and distorting the amp with larger amounts of power".

Considering he has stated he is budget conscious, if OP determines he needs more than 100wpc of power, pro audio amps would be an economical choice.
 
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Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
It appears to have just the sub pre-out, no bass management. Typical of most 2ch stuff.
Then the two options if they intend to use a sub (or if they're still here?) is an avr or separates with a crossover (easiest and cheapest option would be a pro audio behringer crossover), which adds even more expense and complication.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
@Eazerad so how important is a sub or it's integration to you?

By the way all audiophile means is someone enthusiastic about high fidelity sound reproduction, it's not a skill (particularly). It doesn't mean "full warm crisp sound" to me in any case....heck, not even sure what that means.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
A ~4 1/2 ohm load is not uncommon at certain frequencies in most speakers. It's 2 and 3 ohm loads that can become an issue and a majority of ported speakers are going to draw large amounts of power below there -3 dB point. The speakers I'm using have a similar phase angle at 111hz, where there is far more musical content and even male voice content, and I have no trouble driving them on a 100wpc receiver.
You would experience notable improvements from having an amplifier with more dynamic headroom no doubt. However, the Polk RTi-A9's lowest impedance measurement occurs were power demand is near its highest, and where dynamic headroom is MOST necessary. Even while listening at a reasonable volume those micro bursts of energy would likely quadruple if not more the immediate power requirements for a given input.

If the speakers truly do roll off that high (which doesn't seem right based on the reviews), and one intends to listen to music with significant amounts of content below that frequency, a subwoofer should be used. It's why we don't run the LFE through our mains and expect good results. Humans already can't hear bass very well, if a speaker is -12dB at 20hz, at a listening level of 80dB it's below the threshold of hearing. If he isn't planning on using a sub, it's definitely something that should be considered.
My point wasn't to illustrate they don't have audible output below the measured specifications vs published, but rather than I don't fully trust the efficiency specification offered by Polk. It has been found that among many speaker manufacturer specs that the efficiency ratings are optimistic.

That's true, but couldn't a used receiver fit that function? You can get a Marantz SR 7400 on ebay for around $100. It's rated for 130 wpc ACD 20hz-20khz and weighs about 30lbs. IIRC it has a large toroidal transformer in it that takes up over 1/3rd of the receivers space. As someone who has previously owned one, I can vouch that it can reach painful levels of volume without breaking a sweat.
I suppose it could, but it's less than ideal. Usually AVRs have no more than 2 dedicated output devices per channel (push pull). Throughput is going to have a bottleneck here.

Regardless, it really depends on what sort of spl level he is looking to get. While the sensitivity doesn't tell the whole story, it still rings true that 1w/1m is what you'll get across the majority of the frequency range. Add in room reflections and you can gain as much as 3dB. With these speakers, a mere 50wpc at a distance of 12 feet would yield 98dB, an unsafe listening level. At 100wpc, 103dB. Add in room reflections and you get 106dB. People seriously over estimate the amount of power they need. Not to mention one must double the amount of power just to get a 3dB increase. If he were using them for a large dedicated home theater and listening at reference volume a case could be made for external amplification, but for his purposes any receiver that is rated at 100wpc 2ch driven 20hz-20khz FTC will fit the bill.
For dynamically compressed material, sure. Anything that has 10dB of headroom or more might suffer.

I stop paying attention to reviews when reviewers claim that a speaker "really opens up with large amounts of power". Either the amplifier is capable of driving them without distortion at a specific SPL or they're not. For once I'd like to see someone say it "really stops clipping and distorting the amp with larger amounts of power".
I don't pay attention to that, at all. My observations come from personal experience.

Considering he has stated he is budget conscious, if OP determines he needs more than 100wpc of power, pro audio amps would be an economical choice.
I won't disagree with that. Crown has some really nice options that are very affordable.
 
S

Snarl

Audioholic
There is definetly a case for more power/headroom to drive the RTi A9's, There was a clear difference driving them with my Denon Reciever 3805 (120WPC) vs my Outlaw 755 Amp (200WPC) particularly in the mid/higher volumes. So they sound best (In my situation) using a 2.1 Stereo arrangement with the 755 AMP, 60Hz Cross over to Sub, however your mileage may vary. So in my opinion an External Amp of 200WPC or better would be best to drive these Speakers.
 
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