Status Acoustics Granite Bookshelf Speakers Preview

D

Dennis Murphy

Audioholic General
You're joking right? These are by far the most rigid and inert cabinets I've ever seen. Lot's of false assumptions people like to make without ever seeing let alone hearing a product.
I've worked extensively with the late and lamented Norh Marble speakers. If granite is more rigid than marble, then I don't think there's going to be any ringing issue, because the Marbles were super inert. Coupled with the Scan 5" Revelator, they had probably the cleanest midbass I've ever heard.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
We all know that granite is hard. Hardness is "resistance to abrasion", and has little I can think of to do with audio.

Rigidity, which granite also is, will affect cabinet flex and the ability of the cabinet to ring only parts. It does not prevent the entire cabinet from moving. Every object has a resonance, and Newton demands a reaction for the actions of the cones. Unless you hooked up a velocimeter: you don't know what the cabinet is doing.

I have developed and manufactured a product before; but thanks for assuming.

I didn't factor labor of building the speaker into the materials cost. That's why it's called a "materials cost" as opposed to a "labor cost".

Of course, even if I did you could then say I had not covered the costs for a facility, and costs for tools, and you get taxed differently (assuming you've setup an LLC, which to do properly costs a few thousand to have the lawyer review your paperwork). Then there's a whole bunch of new taxes to deal with... and all this assumes you don't have any employees. Once I got my first one of those, it got really nasty.

Of course: Every manufacturer has to deal with these things as well: so we should see similarity in materials-to-cost ratios that are similar for all "appropriately priced" speakers.

First, depending on the quality of Granite, it can range from $40 to 200 per SQ ft.
You can get it considerably cheaper than that. I had already not simply looked up the least expensive; and I had also not looked up volume sales. If he's saying $40 is as low as it goes: he's lying. I cannot comment as to what he might actually consider buying. It's possible that $35/ft^2 granite "isn't good enough"; but it most certainly does exist.

Your description of "walks into a factory" doesn't seem well thought out at all. To properly do business in China (my ex is Chinese and runs a business which includes importing from China) requires a great deal of the right bribes in the right places. Even then: without careful monitoring / control, quality is poor. It's not that China cannot make good quality stuff, it's that it's difficult to get them to do so.

Dennis Murphey can likely discuss what buying cabinets from China was like.

The $15K price of the speakers includes matching stands which requires over 30 square feet of stone. Also, they are offering these speaker in custom finish options, so that means the price the stone can vary substantially. The speakers that were sent to me for review were a grade 4 stone (1 being the lowest and 5 being the highest). Again far more costly than $40 SQ ft, not even factoring in labor costs.
All right. Let's go for $200/ft^2. That's 5x $40, so it turns $800 into $2000. Add another $1500 for $400/ft^2 stands and our material costs for $15k speakers are now $4,560... without labor. Did the granite he used actually cost him $400/ft^2

Did he tell you that costs per ft^2 vary based on the size of the slab you need to cut from? Most of the numbers are built around counter-top assumptions. If you used smaller pieces... say the size of bookshelf speaker walls, it would be less .

Better still: Why don't you just tell us what he is paying for the cabinets?
 
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gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
We all know that granite is hard. Hardness is "resistance to abrasion", and has little I can think of to do with audio.

Rigidity, which granite also is, will affect cabinet flex and the ability of the cabinet to ring only parts. It does not prevent the entire cabinet from moving. Every object has a resonance, and Newton demands a reaction for the actions of the cones. Unless you hooked up a velocimeter: you don't know what the cabinet is doing.
The process of how RBH eliminated resonance in the cabinet is discussed in this brief overview article so you can better understand it:

http://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/status-acoustics-granite-bookshelf-speakers

Better still: Why don't you just tell us what he is paying for the cabinets?
OK and perhaps every manufacturer will also disclose all of their costs so you can come here and tell the readers if their product is worth the asking price or not ;)

I guess by now I shouldn't be surprised anytime we review a high end piece of gear that is spendy, a select few members will come here to denigrate the product that they have no experience with at all. It's no surprise to me why the audio market is now dominated by soundbars, earphones and table radios ;)

Clearly this product is NOT for you. It's not a value product and the choice of cabinet is not to your liking. I suggest looking elsewhere. Meanwhile, I will continue enjoying the incredible sound quality and craftsmanship and smile each time I have the luxury to spend time with products of this caliber much like when Car Reviewers get to test drive Porsche's and Ferrari's :)
 
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gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I've worked extensively with the late and lamented Norh Marble speakers. If granite is more rigid than marble, then I don't think there's going to be any ringing issue, because the Marbles were super inert. Coupled with the Scan 5" Revelator, they had probably the cleanest midbass I've ever heard.
Thanks Dennis. It's great when actual knowledgeable people with real world experience participate on this forum instead of trolling which seems to be happening more and more these days here. Very sad as it makes it more difficult to work with high end companies as a result.

The amazing thing about these little speakers is how they image. The sound is so incredibly focused and immediate, like the hit of a snare drum. The highs are very fluid and open. It will be interesting to compare them to my reference bookshelf speakers that use similar drivers and components but have a composite cabinet in a more traditional box shape as you can see here:

Status Acoustics Decimo Review | Audioholics

Granted there is a HUGE price difference between the two that cannot be justified by performance alone but that wouldn't be a factor for the buyer this product is intended for.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
What sort of annual sales numbers do they project, Gene?
 
Philip Bamberg

Philip Bamberg

Audioholics Approved Vendor
A speaker with the most inert cabinet in the world can still have resonances due to the internal box acoustics. As with headphones, the sound inside the cabinet is very much louder than outside. Standing waves and internal reflections emanate back out the woofer cone, and this is easily measured by the microphone.

So a super rigid and heavy cabinet does not guarantee a "box-free" sound. However, if the panel resonances are vanishingly small, and if the cabinet weight prevents its own "micro-vibration" in space then yes it can still have higher imaging quality.

Another approach is via thick cabinet walls. This exacerbates the internal acoustic problems if the interior dimensions decrease. OTOH, if the inside dims are kept the same, but the outside dims increase, then you have a mechanism for diffraction artifacts moving down in frequency.

They should put a picture of a speaker next to the word "compromise" in the dictionary.
 
D

Darkwing_duck

Audioholic
You're joking right? These are by far the most rigid and inert cabinets I've ever seen. Lot's of false assumptions people like to make without ever seeing let alone hearing a product.
I don't get.....using bamboo to reduce cabinet resonance wouldn't be a good idea?

Seriously...I'm really confused! I'm not trying to challenge Gene here because I'm sure the dude knows his sh!t but I thought ascend acoustics was onto something here with their discovery of bamboo! ????
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I don't get.....using bamboo to reduce cabinet resonance wouldn't be a good idea?

Seriously...I'm really confused! I'm not trying to challenge Gene here because I'm sure the dude knows his sh!t but I thought ascend acoustics was onto something here with their discovery of bamboo! ????
There is nothing wrong with the Ascends cabinet or speaker in general. They make excellent stuff, perhaps some of the best values from ID speaker companies. They use real quality components and no psuedo-science like some of their competitors.

However, the cabinet construction of the Ascends product is more comparable to the box version of the RBH 61-SE/R which sell for about $1900/pair:
Bookshelf: RBH SX-61/R Bookshelf Speaker

The Granite version of this speaker is on another level from traditional box products, thus part of the reason for the enormous price difference.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
There is nothing wrong with the Ascends cabinet or speaker in general. They make excellent stuff, perhaps some of the best values from ID speaker companies. They use real quality components and no psuedo-science like some of their competitors.

However, the cabinet construction of the Ascends product is more comparable to the box version of the RBH 61-SE/R which sell for about $1900/pair:
Bookshelf: RBH SX-61/R Bookshelf Speaker

The Granite version of this speaker is on another level from traditional box products, thus part of the reason for the enormous price difference.
I finally understand the arguement in this thread whether or not using granite justifies the price premium of the product. Logically, I will side with Jerry on this. However value is based on the purchaser and if someone finds value in these speakers, so be it. Its not for me to tell them how to spend their money. The same arguement can be applied to the Paradigm Sub2/Sub3, argueably one of the most powerful commercially available subs out there.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
I guess by now I shouldn't be surprised anytime we review a high end piece of gear that is spendy, a select few members will come here to denigrate the product that they have no experience with at all. It's no surprise to me why the audio market is now dominated by soundbars, earphones and table radios ;)
Why are you putting this in a response to me. I didn't say a single thing about the product except to say what the parts would cost.

I said several things about claims you've made without measurement. Are you just trolling me at this point? ;)

Clearly this product is NOT for you. It's not a value product and the choice of cabinet is not to your liking. I suggest looking elsewhere. Meanwhile, I will continue enjoying the incredible sound quality and craftsmanship and smile each time I have the luxury to spend time with products of this caliber much like when Car Reviewers get to test drive Porsche's and Ferrari's :)
I've driven several Porche's and one Ferarri. Never heard them. The Ferrari in particular (haven't tried the California, which is their GT car), I would not recommend for a commuter car. I have no idea if I would like these speakers or not. :)

If I did buy a pair, these would become my 3rd most expensive set of speakers, and my second made of stone. ;)

On what do you base your assertion that this is clearly not the product for me? I've had no opinion on whether it was or not; but you seem to know. Illuminate me please.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I finally understand the arguement in this thread whether or not using granite justifies the price premium of the product. Logically, I will side with Jerry on this. However value is based on the purchaser and if someone finds value in these speakers, so be it. Its not for me to tell them how to spend their money. The same arguement can be applied to the Paradigm Sub2/Sub3, argueably one of the most powerful commercially available subs out there.
The person shopping value in this case can buy the RBH 61-SE/R version for under $2k and get about 85-90% of the performance for 1/6th the price. It's nice to have options for more discerning buyers especially when they cough up Franklin's ;)
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
I finally understand the arguement in this thread whether or not using granite justifies the price premium of the product. Logically, I will side with Jerry on this. However value is based on the purchaser and if someone finds value in these speakers, so be it. Its not for me to tell them how to spend their money. The same arguement can be applied to the Paradigm Sub2/Sub3, argueably one of the most powerful commercially available subs out there.
That is a really interesting question, and one which is in my opinion worth asking.

As many may remember: cabinet resonance was something of a crusade for WmAx. His two obsessions with speaker building were off-axis performance, and cabinet resonance. As a result, I've ended up with a pair of modified Primum 360s that weigh in at 115lbs each. The shell (which is exceedingly braced) is composed of concrete attached to a lawyer of MDF via a binding layer which converts vibration into heat. There is, of course, sound absorbing material on the inside of the concrete (along with the normal stuffing any speaker has), and there even areas re-enforced with steel beams.

And that's not unique in my collection. It was a driving force for B&W starting with the heavy bracing in their matrix line and moving into the even heavier bracing, rounded bass cabinets, and sphere-tube mid/high in their nautilus line (I have a set of N801s). It was also one of the two obsession of Green Mountain Audio (the other obsession being phase-matching); who has gone with cast marble (something Dennis has called nearly free of resonance).

Though it's not something I've raised (until this post, I've actually not questioned the validity of the design nor price of the granite speakers in question); I do wonder if spending the majority of costs on trying to stamp out cabinet resonance is worthwile sonically. The proof, as always, is in the pudding; but would these speakers, or others similarly designed, perform better with lesser cabinets and better drivers/crossovers?

I don't know the answer to that question: but I think it would be terribly interesting to find out.

PS (not to 3db): Thanks for the red chicklets guys. I know I'm onto something when I get those instead of reasoned responses.
(edit) Yay: been called a "douche" twice in comments on this thread. Such creativity (/edit)
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Disagreements on boards like this comes with the territory as everyone sees things differently. Its human nature. Giving red chicklets is one thing, being called a douche is totally unprofessional and cowardly. Cowards like that should be not be even permitted to rate another person's reputation as they bring no value to the table. If your man enough to give a red chicklet, come up with a solid reason why the chicklet was assigned and don't make it personal. If you can't help but make it personal, then have the stones not apply them at all......if you're man enough that is.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Though it's not something I've raised (until this post, I've actually not questioned the validity of the design nor price of the granite speakers in question); I do wonder if spending the majority of costs on trying to stamp out cabinet resonance is worthwile sonically. The proof, as always, is in the pudding; but would these speakers, or others similarly designed, perform better with lesser cabinets and better drivers/crossovers?

I don't know the answer to that question: but I think it would be terribly interesting to find out.
When you've already got the best driver and crossover parts, then improving the cabinet is icing on the cake. At this price point, cosmetics plays a big role and RBH felt they have a market for a speaker made from a granite enclosure. I doubt this will be a big seller for them but they rarely do upper echelon products to make money. They simply do them as statement pieces for their love of audio.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
PS (not to 3db): Thanks for the red chicklets guys. I know I'm onto something when I get those instead of reasoned responses.
(edit) Yay: been called a "douche" twice in comments on this thread. Such creativity (/edit)

I hit your rep one time yesterday or the day prior for either trolling/argumentative reason but not sure if I can see in ADMIN who did it for the comment you stated above. I will see if I can find the deduction amount and add it back for you.
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
Though it's not something I've raised (until this post, I've actually not questioned the validity of the design nor price of the granite speakers in question); I do wonder if spending the majority of costs on trying to stamp out cabinet resonance is worthwile sonically. The proof, as always, is in the pudding; but would these speakers, or others similarly designed, perform better with lesser cabinets and better drivers/crossovers?
I think Gene partially answered that question with this

The person shopping value in this case can buy the RBH 61-SE/R version for under $2k and get about 85-90% of the performance for 1/6th the price.
I would assume (always dangerous, I know) that RBH put some real thought into the crossover, while sticking with their go to drivers. I don't think RBH is breaking their mold, but merely making an incremental improvement, combined with a distinct aesthetic choice, to add to the Status lineup. The performance is probably excellent, but more importantly they hit a price point that would make a certain type of buyer want it with a cabinet material that they can use to justify the price (material cost, acoustic benefit, status as a "high end" material). I'm not saying this is wrong, nor is this a criticism of RBH or the speakers. It's just the reality of creating a lineup geared towards the "high end" crowd.

When you've already got the best driver and crossover parts, then improving the cabinet is icing on the cake. At this price point, cosmetics plays a big role and RBH felt they have a market for a speaker made from a granite enclosure. I doubt this will be a big seller for them but they rarely do upper echelon products to make money. They simply do them as statement pieces for their love of audio.
I don't know, there are quite a few great drivers out there and, to me, the best crossover parts involve something a little more active in nature, but I'm sure no expense was spare ;)

They look great, I'm sure they sound great, and of course they're something different. There are enough wood boxes out there, different shapes and materials keep things interesting. :)
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I don't know, there are quite a few great drivers out there and, to me, the best crossover parts involve something a little more active in nature, but I'm sure no expense was spare ;)

They look great, I'm sure they sound great, and of course they're something different. There are enough wood boxes out there, different shapes and materials keep things interesting. :)
Sorry but I don't subscribe to that myth. Active crossovers aren't always better than passive. In fact, there are advantages to using fully passive crossovers if the very best parts are used and implemented properly. The absolute best speakers I've ever heard in my life have been fully passive designs. I've heard some great active speakers to but not on my top 3 list of what I feel was the best sound reproduction I've ever heard.
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
Sorry but I don't subscribe to that myth. Active crossovers aren't always better than passive. In fact, there are advantages to using fully passive crossovers if the very best parts are used and implemented properly. The absolute best speakers I've ever heard in my life have been fully passive designs. I've heard some great active speakers to but not on my top 3 list of what I feel was the best sound reproduction I've ever heard.
I never said they were always better and the point was that to proclaim either "the best" is short sighted since there advantages to both in certain situations. Plus, I prefaced my statement with "to me" so I'm not really sure why there's any mention of a myth or how we got to "always better".

Seems like everyone in the thread should take a deep breath :D
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I never said they were always better and the point was that to proclaim either "the best" is short sighted since there advantages to both in certain situations. Plus, I prefaced my statement with "to me" so I'm not really sure why there's any mention of a myth or how we got to "always better".

Seems like everyone in the thread should take a deep breath :D
There is a common misconception that active is always better in general. There are pros and cons of each perhaps worthy of an article in itself.

I think you're right. Time to hit the gym to help burn off all the treats tonight ;)
 

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