Speaker Upgrade advice

[skads_187]

I'm slowly starting to plan for a speaker upgrade which I would like to purchase by December.
Currently I own and use PSB image series, 7.1 setup (t45's, c40, b15's and b4's) + (Velodyne DPS-12)

Eventually I will upgrade my receiver and add 4 ceiling speakers (for Atmos)
I will building a home theater in a unfinished basement measuring 19x14x8
this is mostly to watch movies, tv, (90%) and very little music, or whenever i have time i sit down and listen to some music.

I want to start by upgrading my Fronts and Center (+ a xpa3)
for the 3 speakers, I want to spend in the ballpark of 3000$
I will then upgrade surrounds in a few years from now.
Im looking to get better sound (and louder)
I dont want speakers with too much bass, as already my wife complains with the dps-12, so adding too much more might be an issue, although i assume with the crossover at 80 and setting speakers to small, should do the trick?

Please note, that there are not too many stores that I can listen to any of these speakers (+ some are online only), this is why I am looking for advice. I will also be posting on other sites, to get as much feedback as possible.

So far Im looking at getting studio 60's and the cc590 v5's
(Early reviews of the Prestige line doesnt look to great)

From what ive read so far ive determined the following:
B&W's are suited better for music, Ascend Sierra's look good but the center channel is way too big, Focal Chorus (cant remember what I read about those), then there is the SongTowers which I've been reading great reviews on. Thing is, they will be a bit out of price range for unfortunately (adding RAAL's and shipping costs)
How is Song Center compare to the CC590?
also with the paradigm's i can easily timber match the ceiling speakers for atmos

the Studio 60's + cc590 should cost me about 3000$ + Txs (im in Quebec Canada, so looking at 450$ roughly) = 3450$ CAD
Salk's would be (and i had to remove the RAAL option on the ST's) = ST w/ OW4 2100$ + 1145 SC (with RAAL) = 3245$ + txs and shipping (roughly 485 taxes + 250 shipping)= $3980 USD = 4455$ CAD

1000$ extra for the Salk's which I wont be able to afford unforunately, does anyone have any suggestions to compare to the Paradigms? with the price mentioned?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Do you not like the sound of your PSB speakers?

Have you heard and compared any of these speakers to your PSB?

Changing to Paradigm, B&W, Focal, or any other speakers may not significantly improve the sound quality.

 

[ImcLoud]

I would start demoing.... $3000 front sound stage I would be getting ascend sierra 2's ... 2 plus center comes to around $2150 leaves plenty for a nice pair of stands...

 

[markw]

Agree. Change is easy. Improvement is another story. Listen around before jumping or, if going ID only, make sure the return policy is liberal.

 

[skads_187]

Do you not like the sound of your PSB speakers?

Have you heard and compared any of these speakers to your PSB?

Changing to Paradigm, B&W, Focal, or any other speakers may not significantly improve the sound quality.

lucky for me, I actually was able to listen to some speakers today (found a store that has some nice speakers to audition with)
listened to B&W 683 S2 and Focal Chorus 726 (both in the 2000$ range for 2 fronts). then compared them to the monitor 11, studio 60 and 100.


I can definitely say i preferred the sound on the paradigms, i can tell the difference from the studio 60 to 100, i really liked the 100, too bad the price is so high.
might wait for the prestige line though , so that I can compare.

to answer your question, a few things im looking at, definetely looking for something that will sound better (louder) and improve aesthetics (only as a bonus)

the problem is i couldnt hear a comparison to my psb's because they dont carry them, i dont even know if I can find a place.
I can say , from memory, when I first auditioned the t45's, the paradigm's today sounded a lot better (when demoing with music)

so just so that i understand, i would think going from a psb image series to a paradigm studio would be an improvement no?

unfortunately, because my basement is unfinished, my psb's are not installed. so i can even listen to them today to compare, only once my basement is complete.

 

[skads_187]

I would start demoing.... $3000 front sound stage I would be getting ascend sierra 2's ... 2 plus center comes to around $2150 leaves plenty for a nice pair of stands...

started demoing today. I now see how important demoing is, which now might cancel the salk's and ascend's. problem with the ascends, is i would prefer getting the tower, problem with that is , once i factor in taxes, brokerage, shipping and currency conversion (to CAD), im looking at way over budget unfortunately.

Agree. Change is easy. Improvement is another story. Listen around before jumping or, if going ID only, make sure the return policy is liberal.

return policy might not be so easy. i would probably have to change it for something else. so wouldnt t45's to a studio series be an improvement?

 

[skads_187]

just an update, so far, for now im looking at the monitor audio silver 8 and paradigm studio 60. (for my price range)
im going to do a direct comparison in the coming weeks.

unfortunately I cannot audition the center channels, my question is, if im using my speakers more for movies than music, should I go with the paradigms since they have a better center speaker?

just an fyi, based on what ive heard so far, the silver 8 alone, is much better than my t45's, highs, mids and lows all around. definitely an upgrade without a doubt in my mind.

 

[3db]

lucky for me, I actually was able to listen to some speakers today (found a store that has some nice speakers to audition with)
listened to B&W 683 S2 and Focal Chorus 726 (both in the 2000$ range for 2 fronts). then compared them to the monitor 11, studio 60 and 100.


I can definitely say i preferred the sound on the paradigms, i can tell the difference from the studio 60 to 100, i really liked the 100, too bad the price is so high.
might wait for the prestige line though , so that I can compare.

to answer your question, a few things im looking at, definetely looking for something that will sound better (louder) and improve aesthetics (only as a bonus)

the problem is i couldnt hear a comparison to my psb's because they dont carry them, i dont even know if I can find a place.
I can say , from memory, when I first auditioned the t45's, the paradigm's today sounded a lot better (when demoing with music)

so just so that i understand, i would think going from a psb image series to a paradigm studio would be an improvement no?

unfortunately, because my basement is unfinished, my psb's are not installed. so i can even listen to them today to compare, only once my basement is complete.

I would not rely on memory as audio memory is one of the poorest memories we have. I would wait till your room is done and try to get some speakers home to do a proper level matched comparison between the speakers. That would be your best. Also, room acoustics also play a big role so you don't know what your playing with until the room is completed. A speakers sound will change with the room that they are placed in.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Any RBH dealer near you? Worth a listen if there is one.

 

[Sheep]

just an update, so far, for now im looking at the monitor audio silver 8 and paradigm studio 60. (for my price range)
im going to do a direct comparison in the coming weeks.

unfortunately I cannot audition the center channels, my question is, if im using my speakers more for movies than music, should I go with the paradigms since they have a better center speaker?

just an fyi, based on what ive heard so far, the silver 8 alone, is much better than my t45's, highs, mids and lows all around. definitely an upgrade without a doubt in my mind.

When I checked out some of Paradigms monitor series versus the lower end Monitor Audio stuff I found the Monitors very laid back, almost too laid back. I didn't get the best listen but it was a direct a/b. Paradigms sounded more alive, but I needed more time to determine if the Paradigm would have been too forward or if the Monitor was too laid back, if you catch my drift. Interested to hear your thoughts though, as a fellow Canadian.

SheepStar

 

[walter duque]

What influenced you in the first place getting PSB speakers?? Only ones I've listened to was the synch ones and they just sounded dead (could have been the room). Could have picked them up for $1800.00 the pair but passed on them.

 

[KEW]

Talk to your local audio dealer about letting you bring in your PSB's to compare. I have done this.
They will probably be reluctant to do it on a Saturday when they have customers, but Tuesday morning is a different story.

Also, what amplifier are you using? You probably have already established that your amplifier is sufficient for those speakers. They have an efficiency of 88dB which should be easy to drive. However they spend a lot of time at 4-5ohms, which can be a problem for a marginal amp. Below is a link to the test data for anyone interested:

http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/speakers/psb_image_t45/

 

[skads_187]

Unfortunately here in Canada, as far as I know, they don't let you bring home speakers to test unfortunately. My basement isn't finished yet, and didn't really want to shop around now, however, with the studio line out the door, I wanted to be sure I don't want them. They are bit pricey though. I've heard the prestige line is nothing special at all (need to hear it for myself obviously)

As for comparing speakers. I have to say, the highs on the silver 8 alone blows the t45 out the window easily. I used to listen to music on the t45's , and I've heard the studio, focal chorus, silver 8 etc and I never heard music like that before. I don't remember enjoying music like that with the t45. I even made the mistake of listening to sonus Faber, those were excellent, but they tacked on the Canadian exchange and it was just too far out my budget. I even got to hear the Aria speakers. That was something!
T45 is a great speaker , but from what I've heard so far it honestly does not compare with these others.

 

[skads_187]

What influenced you in the first place getting PSB speakers?? Only ones I've listened to was the synch ones and they just sounded dead (could have been the room). Could have picked them up for $1800.00 the pair but passed on them.

To be honest . This was easily 6 years ago, it was fist surround system, It was whatever fit my budget, I got a decent deal on them so I bought them. I would have bought the monitors at the time had they been a bit less expensive.

 

[skads_187]

Talk to your local audio dealer about letting you bring in your PSB's to compare. I have done this.
They will probably be reluctant to do it on a Saturday when they have customers, but Tuesday morning is a different story.

Also, what amplifier are you using? You probably have already established that your amplifier is sufficient for those speakers. They have an efficiency of 88dB which should be easy to drive. However they spend a lot of time at 4-5ohms, which can be a problem for a marginal amp. Below is a link to the test data for anyone interested:

http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/speakers/psb_image_t45/

Using the pioneer sc-25. I also bought a emotiva xpa-3 which was on sale, knowing that I would be upgrading.

 

[walter duque]

To be honest . This was easily 6 years ago, it was fist surround system, It was whatever fit my budget, I got a decent deal on them so I bought them. I would have bought the monitors at the time had they been a bit less expensive.

Good honest answer, thanks.

 

[KEW]

Unfortunately here in Canada, as far as I know, they don't let you bring home speakers to test unfortunately.

To quote my dad, "the answer is no until you ask". No audio dealer in the US is required to allow you to bring in speakers, but I have found if you talk to the manager, convince him you are serious about buying from him if his speakers compare favorably, and willing to work on his schedule; they are quite accommodating!
However, it sounds like you are hearing a big enough difference that you don't need to do AB testing (unless your room is the culprit).

If you narrow it down to two speakers from the same dealer, I would ask them if you can spend a Sunday with both and keep the ones that sound best in your room. The room is a huge variable, but always gets overlooked!

The speakers you have lined up are indeed nice!

 

[skads_187]

To quote my dad, "the answer is no until you ask". No audio dealer in the US is required to allow you to bring in speakers, but I have found if you talk to the manager, convince him you are serious about buying from him if his speakers compare favorably, and willing to work on his schedule; they are quite accommodating!
However, it sounds like you are hearing a big enough difference that you don't need to do AB testing (unless your room is the culprit).

If you narrow it down to two speakers from the same dealer, I would ask them if you can spend a Sunday with both and keep the ones that sound best in your room. The room is a huge variable, but always gets overlooked!

The speakers you have lined up are indeed nice!

you are definitely right about that, however, i do see a possible issue with that, by the time the room is complete, and then acoustically treated, the paradigm studio speakers might be discontinued and out of stock. but it is worth a shot.

 

[skads_187]

forgot to add, even though it plays a very minute roll, aesthetically, the t45's are not that pleasing either. i have black ash.
some nice looking walnut speakers would look sweet.

 

[GIEGAR]

Took a few snippets...

I will building a home theater in a unfinished basement measuring 19x14x8
this is mostly to watch movies, tv, (90%) and very little music, or whenever i have time i sit down and listen to some music.

I want to start by upgrading my Fronts and Center (+ a xpa3)
for the 3 speakers, I want to spend in the ballpark of 3000$
I will then upgrade surrounds in a few years from now.
Im looking to get better sound (and louder)

Hi Skads, it just strikes me that the type of speakers you're considering to date are somewhat at odds with your stated needs (dedicated HT; 90% movies; better and louder sound...). So far, what you're considering are more like different flavours of the same thing that cost more, rather than a true upgrade.

You need to bust out of the old paradigm of glossy, mass produced, average sensitivity, quasi full range towers masquerading as high performance HT speakers!

To truly meet your needs, I'd aim for a front end of 3 X JTR Noesis 228HT's (US$1300 each). For precision, clarity and dynamics at all volume levels, the JTR's will put "the usual suspects" in the shade. The combination of genuine high sensitivity, high power handling/low distortion and controlled directivity (not spraying sound all over the side walls) are the keys that set the JTR Noesis apart.

If all three will be a stretch, just get a pair initially. Due to the controlled directivity of their horn, JTR's image very well so will achieve a solid "phantom" centre image with some experimentation with toe-in. Get the third later when budget permits.

Wish I'd spotted your thread before you bought the XPA-3. You can confidently return it to help fund the speaker purchase as it will not be needed with the JTR's. Your Pioneer SC-25 will be fine. It is THX Select2 Plus certified and therefore will have about 10dB (10x power) up it's sleeve (headroom) at calibrated reference level (0dBMV) in your proposed room driving the 98dB/2V/1m JTR's.

Suitable surrounds for the JTR's are these JBL 834A's ($1100/pr).

If a walnut finish floats your boat, JTR will do a range of veneers or custom matched finishes (at cost I understand). They're still a basic box though!

Please note, that there are not too many stores that I can listen to any of these speakers (+ some are online only), this is why I am looking for advice.

Jump on the Official JTR Speaker thread over at AVS and ask around. Many JTR owners are only too happy to oblige with an audition, and with any luck there's someone in your area. Failing that, like all good ID speaker companies, JTR has a "love 'em or send 'em back" policy.

Good luck!