Speaker grills affecting sound

Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
every time i buy a set of speakers with cloth grills, if i take the grills off the sound always sounds much more dynamic, with them on it sounds kind of "flat" why?
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Uh, how about because there's a piece of cloth in front of the speaker?

Seriously, some manufacturers do design their high end a little "hot" to compensate for the grill so the FR is linear, but they will still sound comparatively "flat" or "veiled" when the grills are on if you've been listening with the grills off.
That said I have found that some grills are less intrusive to the sound than others, but none of them will be truly transparent.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
This likely is pyscho acoustic in nature since most grill cloth is very neutral. ;)
 
C

Chicagorep

Junior Audioholic
That's why Totem doesn't sell grill cloths with there speakers. The designer feels they effect the sound.
 
Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
they affect the upper highs only most of the time, only once have i had a set of speakers that didnt suffer from the grills. logically speaking, that makes sense because cloth is a good absorber of sound, high sounds suffer worst from environmental obstructions, ive never had an issue with bass and grill cloths, just highs. and yea, veiled is a good word for it, its almost like putting a piece of cardboard in front of it. this is one of the things that deterred me from keeping and using my KEF sattelites is because without the grills they sound fantastic, with them, flat, but the grills are metal covered in cloth like hot-dog bun shaped things and if you take them off it looks like half your speaker is missing
 
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JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
In most instances, sound effecting grills sound like shoddy design.

There are, however, several companies who use their grills as part of their sound reproduction (Paradigm and their "wave guide" come to mind).
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
This likely is pyscho acoustic in nature since most grill cloth is very neutral. ;)
Go out and listen- some cloth makes a big difference. It's almost never a huge change in the midrange but the highs can be pretty badly screwed up, especially as far as dispersion.
 
Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
Go out and listen- some cloth makes a big difference. It's almost never a huge change in the midrange but the highs can be pretty badly screwed up, especially as far as dispersion.
exactly the issues i am having, its not really that much of an issue, but just a slight difference with them off
 
Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
yea, i can remove them, i just found it interesting and wondered if anyone else had the same issue
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
they affect the upper highs only most of the time, only once have i had a set of speakers that didnt suffer from the grills. logically speaking, that makes sense because cloth is a good absorber of sound, high sounds suffer worst from environmental obstructions, ive never had an issue with bass and grill cloths, just highs. and yea, veiled is a good word for it, its almost like putting a piece of cardboard in front of it. this is one of the things that deterred me from keeping and using my KEF sattelites is because without the grills they sound fantastic, with them, flat, but the grills are metal covered in cloth like hot-dog bun shaped things and if you take them off it looks like half your speaker is missing
What KEF did you use? I need to avoid those. My KEFs only have a metal grill much like a dome driver would have. So I get no real issues.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
the same exact model isnt listed on their site but an off-shoot of it is. it's almost the exact same speaker, just a slightly upgraded model. http://www.kef.com/us/surroundsound/satellite/hts5001.2
You gotta be kidding you're telling me the 5000 series has bad grill cloth. I have a hard time believing that. :rolleyes: KEF isn't Bose they actually engineer their speakers pretty well. The 3000 series is better, but the 5000 series is still very good. In a small room the set is probably better than the Sony's you are so stoked about. Even the 2000 series speakers I have sound better than a lot of bookshelves out there.

What are your thoughts on bridges?
 
Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
i think bridges are very good devices to get people across waters, and valleys and the like, since i dont know what your talking about, secondly im not kidding you, the grille cloth has an affect on the sound. it doesent really affect the sound to the point that you cant use them satisfactorily. they just sound alot better with the grilles off. especially in the highs. im not too big on those speakers as well, they sound weak, they wont go really loud at all without distortion and any sub seems to drown them out because they lack fullness of midrange.
 
sgtpepper9

sgtpepper9

Audioholic
I would be surprised if anyone could do a true blind listening test (having someone else take the grills on and off) and actually be able to correctly state whether they were on or off more than 50% of the time.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
I would be surprised if anyone could do a true blind listening test (having someone else take the grills on and off) and actually be able to correctly state whether they were on or off more than 50% of the time.
I've owned several different brands/models of loudspeakers and I've never been able to hear any difference between grills on or off. Maybe my sensitivity to higher frequencies has dulled over the years, but I also couldn't tell any difference when I was younger.
 
Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
i have a high sensitivity to HF, i was using a tone generator on my computer once just to see how high i could go and still hear it and i made it up to 30khz
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
i have a high sensitivity to HF, i was using a tone generator on my computer once just to see how high i could go and still hear it and i made it up to 30khz
I hope I don't offend you when I say that I have difficulty believing that.;)
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
i have a high sensitivity to HF, i was using a tone generator on my computer once just to see how high i could go and still hear it and i made it up to 30khz
The question remains, at what SPL relative to 1 khz?
 
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