Speaker/Crossover settings

[spike99]

OK, for my B & W speakers, I have the following speaker crossover settings in my Denon AVR-4308

Fronts: CM 8 - 40 Hz
Center: CM Center - 40 Hz
Surrounds: CM1 - 40 Hz
Sub: ASW10 - 80 Hz

I'm not sure if these are the ideal settings.

Currently, I have all speakers set to "Large Speakers" in receiver.

Once in a while I do hear some crakling sounds coming from CM1's (surrounds) for a few seconds on some movie scenes. I'm not sure If there is something wrong with CM1's or I need to change some crossover settings due to too much bass ? Or maybe I should change config to "Small Speakers" in AV setup.

The crakling noise only lasts a few seconds.... It seems like its receiving too much bass ?

 

[spike99]

Note: When I set speaker size in receiver to "Small" I don't hear crackling noise.

 

[MDS]

OK, for my B & W speakers, I have the following speaker crossover settings in my Denon AVR-4308

Fronts: CM 8 - 40 Hz
Center: CM Center - 40 Hz
Surrounds: CM1 - 40 Hz
Sub: ASW10 - 80 Hz

I'm not sure if these are the ideal settings.

Currently, I have all speakers set to "Large Speakers" in receiver.

If the speakers are set to 'Large' in the receiver then those xover frequencies are not being used. Large means send ALL frequencies to the speaker and is only appropriate for large floorstanding speakers that can reproduce very low bass frequencies. Even so, it's almost always better to set all speakers to Small if you have a subwoofer.

The Small setting will cause the receiver to re-route all frequencies at or below the xover to the subwoofer which is designed precisely for reproducing low bass. A rule of thumb is to set the xover at 1/2 to 1 octave above the F3 point of the speaker (the point where its output is down 3 dB).

You can look at the specs for the speakers and set the xover in the receiver for each speaker according to how low they can go using the rule of thumb above...or you can set it to 80 Hz which works pretty well for most speakers except small surrounds or center channels that don't go much below about 80 Hz.

If you are using the xover setting in the receiver and set each channel to Small make sure to turn the xover dial on the sub all the way up or if the sub allows it disable the sub's internal xover completely.

Crackling sounds from a speaker could be because it is being asked to handle frequencies too low for it to deal with. Set each channel to Small and send those low frequencies to the sub and the other speakers won't have to work so hard.

 

[spike99]

I think I got most of what you said

If the speakers are set to 'Large' in the receiver then those xover frequencies are not being used. Large means send ALL frequencies to the speaker and is only appropriate for large floorstanding speakers that can reproduce very low bass frequencies. Even so, it's almost always better to set all speakers to Small if you have a subwoofer.

Yes, after I set the surround to "Small" I no longer hear the cracking sounds.... When this cracking noise occurs... I can feel an extreme amount of air coming out from the back of the surrounds. For now, since I'm only having an issue with the surrounds, maybe I'll leave the rest of the speakers set to "Large" ?

A rule of thumb is to set the xover at 1/2 to 1 octave above the F3 point of the speaker (the point where its output is down 3 dB).

You lost me here

You can look at the specs for the speakers and set the xover in the receiver for each speaker according to how low they can go using the rule of thumb above...or you can set it to 80 Hz which works pretty well for most speakers except small surrounds or center channels that don't go much below about 80 Hz.

According to speaker specs (including CM8's, CM Center & CM1's) the Crossover frequencies are 4kHz. I'll assume this is the same as 40 Hz ? This is what is set in the receiver at this time.

If you are using the xover setting in the receiver and set each channel to Small make sure to turn the xover dial on the sub all the way up or if the sub allows it disable the sub's internal xover completely.

Yes, I believe its dialed all the way up.

Thanks for your reply !!

 

[GranteedEV]

You lost me here

A rule of thumb - something you'd be well served to go by but isn't set in stone.
set the xover - setting the crossover
at 1/2 to 1 octave - if the frequency is 50hz, then 75hz is 1/2 an octave higher and 100hz is a whole octave higher.
F3 - speakers begin to rolloff at the bottom end of their frequency response. the point where it's 3db down is usually considered the lower limit of useful bass. So if your speakers are 40hz - 17khz +/- 3db then 40hz would be the F3

thus the ideal crossover point would be someone near 60hz or 80hz

According to speaker specs (including CM8's, CM Center & CM1's) the Crossover frequencies are 4kHz. I'll assume this is the same as 40 Hz ? This is what is set in the receiver at this time.

Wait! 4khz is 4000 hz! Not 40! That specified speaker crossover frequency is for where the midrange driver hands off to the tweeter! What you want to determine is where to hand off the subwoofer to the midrange driver! Find the F3 point of your speakers, not the crossover! Here I'll do it for you

Based on the specs your F3 points would be

CM8 - 69Hz
CM Center - 55Hz
CM1 - 55Hz

Why the center and bookshelf extend lower than the 3-way tower is beyond me. Based on that though you should experiment with a 80hz, 100hz, and 120hz crossover points. If you've got stereo subs then higher crossover points are more acceptable, but for most setups 80hz is preferable because it usually keeps the subwoofer from being localizable. You've got your system setup well if

1) At your seating position, there isn't too much or too little bass
2) You can't tell where the bass is coming from if it's directed to the subwoofer. It should really come from the entire room around you in a sense.

 

[spike99]

Based on the specs your F3 points would be

CM8 - 69Hz
CM Center - 55Hz
CM1 - 55Hz

Why the center and bookshelf extend lower than the 3-way tower is beyond me. Based on that though you should experiment with a 80hz, 100hz, and 120hz crossover points. If you've got stereo subs then higher crossover points are more acceptable, but for most setups 80hz is preferable because it usually keeps the subwoofer from being localizable. You've got your system setup well if

1) At your seating position, there isn't too much or too little bass
2) You can't tell where the bass is coming from if it's directed to the subwoofer. It should really come from the entire room around you in a sense.

Thanks for info. When I get home tonight... I will start experimenting with different crossover points. When experimenting with crossover points, should I set speaker size for "surrounds" (CM1's) as Small or Large ?

Also, what about crossover point for SUB. Currently its set at 80Hz in receiver. Is this ok ?

 

[AVRat]

Optimum for ALL those speakers is "Small" @ 80 Hz, and the sub is fine @ 80 Hz.

 

[spike99]

Optimum for ALL those speakers is "Small" @ 80 Hz, and the sub is fine @ 80 Hz.

OK. Tonight, I will experiment with crossover settings.

 

[spike99]

OK. I have played with frequencies but it's hard to tell a difference. Setting to small the cracking is no longer present.

In the end, I set all frequencies to 80Hz.

I have a question, if for example I set the speaker to large it will send all freq to speakers.... But in this scenario... doesn't the bass freq go anyway to my sub?

Basically, is there a difference for sub when I switch speakers from large to small ? I know there will be a diff for speakers. In other words, is there Freq not being received by the sub because speakers are set to large ?

 

[PENG]

OK. I have played with frequencies but it's hard to tell a difference. Setting to small the cracking is no longer present.

That means you have done something good.

In the end, I set all frequencies to 80Hz.

I also have the 4308, I set all to 80 Hz but I set the sub LFE to 120 Hz. From what I know the LFE signal often will go that high, so why cut it off?

I have a question, if for example I set the speaker to large it will send all freq to speakers.... But in this scenario... doesn't the bass freq go anyway to my sub?

No, in that case only the LFE, that is the .1 channel in the 5.1 or 7.1 goes to the sub. The bass for each individual channels will go to the corresponding channels if you set them to large. Those bass signals will only get redirected to the sub if you set those speakers to small.

Basically, is there a difference for sub when I switch speakers from large to small ? I know there will be a diff for speakers. In other words, is there Freq not being received by the sub because speakers are set to large ?

There is a difference, as explained above and previously by others.

 

[zumbo]

Set all speakers to SMALL.

Set x-over for every speaker to 80.

Set LFE to 80.

If not using LFE input on the sub, the turn the subs x-over(on the sub box itself) all the way up.

Don't experiment any further with x-over points unless you replace speakers.

 

[PENG]

I followed Audyssey's recommendations and set my LFE to 120 Hz. I thought the explanation in this link make sense.

http://ask.audyssey.com/entries/321931-lpf-on-lfe

 

[zumbo]

Currently, I have all speakers set to "Large Speakers" in receiver.

Once in a while I do hear some crakling sounds coming from CM1's (surrounds) for a few seconds on some movie scenes. I'm not sure If there is something wrong with CM1's or I need to change some crossover settings due to too much bass ? Or maybe I should change config to "Small Speakers" in AV setup.

The crakling noise only lasts a few seconds.... It seems like its receiving too much bass ?

OK. I have played with frequencies but it's hard to tell a difference. Setting to small the cracking is no longer present.

That means you have done something good.

I would have to say playing with things was not good. So let me make sure that the OP knows you mean changing the x-over and speaker size is what was good.

I assume there is a damaged speaker, or a damaged receiver.

The way to figure it out is to switch the surround speakers to see if the "crackling" moves. If it moves, then it's the speaker. If it stays on that side, it's the receiver.

If you have happened to crank your system for an extended period in 7-ch surround, or all speakers stereo, there is a good chance you may have damaged the receiver.

My guess is, it's the speaker/s.

 

[spike99]

No, in that case only the LFE, that is the .1 channel in the 5.1 or 7.1 goes to the sub. The bass for each individual channels will go to the corresponding channels if you set them to large. Those bass signals will only get redirected to the sub if you set those speakers to small.

I was a bit confused on this... but this explanation definitely makes sense. I now understand why most people recommend setting speakers to small

 

[spike99]

The way to figure it out is to switch the surround speakers to see if the "crackling" moves. If it moves, then it's the speaker. If it stays on that side, it's the receiver.

My guess is, it's the speaker/s.

When setting speakers to Large, the crackling noise occurs on both surrounds.... just one of them the crackling is a bit more than the other. I also had switch surround speakers around. Same scenario.... both make crackling noise for a few secs but again the one makes the more crackling noise is the same one even if I change it from left to right.

In addition I had moved the surround speaker wires and placed them on front speakers (CM8's) and no crackling noise. I suppose the front speakers are better able to handle the bass frequencies.

I suppose that the CM1's make this crackling noise because they are not able to properly handle the bass frequency.

 

[MDS]

I have a question, if for example I set the speaker to large it will send all freq to speakers.... But in this scenario... doesn't the bass freq go anyway to my sub?

The sub always gets the LFE (.1 channel) even if all speakers are set to Large.

The Small vs Large setting is inappropriately named because it implies that a physically big speaker or as most AVR manuals say 'a speaker with a substantial size woofer') should be set to Large. But what it really means is 'send the bass to this speaker (Large) or not (Small)'. So the sub gets all bass from speakers set to Small and the LFE.

There is one special case that is rarely used. That is a setting like 'LFE + Main' or 'Double Bass' (the name varies from manufacturer to manufacturer but the concept is the same). To use that setting the front speakers have to be set to Large. Because they are set to Large they get the full frequency range including low bass but the low bass below the xover is ALSO sent to the subwoofer - hence 'Double Bass'.

 

[spike99]

There is one special case that is rarely used. That is a setting like 'LFE + Main' or 'Double Bass' (the name varies from manufacturer to manufacturer but the concept is the same). To use that setting the front speakers have to be set to Large. Because they are set to Large they get the full frequency range including low bass but the low bass below the xover is ALSO sent to the subwoofer - hence 'Double Bass'.

Funny, u should mention this... I actually have setting in receiver for sub to be "LFE + Main". I wasn't sure what this meant.... now I know

Currently I have front & center to "Large" and Surrounds to "Small".

 

[zumbo]

Funny, u should mention this... I actually have setting in receiver for sub to be "LFE + Main". I wasn't sure what this meant.... now I know

Currently I have front & center to "Large" and Surrounds to "Small".

All speakers should be set to SMALL. They are NOT full range speakers.

LFE should be set to SUB.

 

[avliner]

I followed Audyssey's recommendations and set my LFE to 120 Hz. I thought the explanation in this link make sense...

Peng,

I do exactly the same as you do, with excellent results trhough.
All my speakers ( 7.1 SVS system ) are crossed @ 80Hz and the SW (PB-10) is crossed @ 120Hz in the AVR... no complaints at all

 

[zumbo]

Peng,

I do exactly the same as you do, with excellent results trhough.
All my speakers ( 7.1 SVS system ) are crossed @ 80Hz and the SW (PB-10) is crossed @ 120Hz in the AVR... no complaints at all

Doesn't this make the sub stand-out, as in, it's over there.

I switched my sub to 60 just to get it to blend better, and not be localized. Works great for me. But, my towers can handle the rest without a problem as well.