Soundcard to Headphone Amplifier

[sugarkang]

Hi there.

i tried to read as much as possible, but many things are over my head.
I don't believe that cables make much of a difference, but I do want to know if I can just go and buy any old cable to connect my soundcard to my headphone amplifier.

i need a mini to RCA.

please recommend something. i need about 8-10 feet of cable.

 

[markw]

I don't see a problem here.

dunno about the lengths, but when liiking just be sure that the mini plug has three metal rings on it. That means it's stereo. The two male RCA's on the otherend are a no brainer then.

If possible, use the line level out (usually black?) on the sound card as opposed to the headphone out (usually green). That way you'll avoid the cheesy amp on the sound card.

 

[sugarkang]

thanks for the response.

the reason i ask is because i've just spent my hard earned cash for sennheiser's top (consumer) headphone, the HD650.
to match, i've got a headphone amp that's even more expensive than that.

in this scenario, could i still get by with any old mini to RCA?
from what i've read on this site, i assume that any cable would be fine.
just want to be sure though.

thanks.

 

[WmAx]

Nice headphone. But you could have got along just as fine with a low cost headphone amp. I personally would hve recommended something like the Behringer HA4700, which is very useful with it's multiple indepedently adjustable gain stages for level matched headphone comparisons..... It's the headphone that really counts.

But yes, any cable that is physically well made is fine. It looks like their is a Monster brand unit that is made very well for about $20.00: http://www.spectravox.com/aicip7.html

I would avoid the really cheap model like Radio Shack carries for about $7. Made poorly, tends to fail. I've had a few. I'm not sure if they offer a good quality version yet.

In the future you might want to consider getting a nice equalizer if you really want some powerful sound shaping. Check out Behringer DEQ2496

-Chris

thanks for the response.

the reason i ask is because i've just spent my hard earned cash for sennheiser's top (consumer) headphone, the HD650.
to match, i've got a headphone amp that's even more expensive than that.

in this scenario, could i still get by with any old mini to RCA?
from what i've read on this site, i assume that any cable would be fine.
just want to be sure though.

thanks.

 

[sugarkang]

Hi WMAX.

thanks for your input.
i don't live stateside, so i'll go get a cable at my nearest shop.
20 bucks seems reasonable.

i did a little research on the behringer, and came up with this:
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=71843&highlight=ha4700

seems the folks at headfi really hate it.
now, i don't really believe a lot of things that they say, and a lot of people on there are nuts. paying 200 bucks for replacement cables on the HD650, which seems ridiculous.

how much of a difference would an amp make? little to none you think?
have you heard many headphone amps?
i just recently bought a meier corda HA2.

 

[WmAx]

i did a little research on the behringer, and came up with this:
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=71843&highlight=ha4700

seems the folks at headfi really hate it.

The folks at head-fi hate alot of things with absoltely no basis. I can not take their opinions on an issue like a headphone amp seriously. But it does not suprise me that they would not like it, since it is not an audiophile-classified device. I would be suprised if in a double blind test, level matched, that one would be able to discern a difference. But if you already have a headphone amp and are happy, then I suppose you have no reason to get another. Most of the modern Behringer stuff is very well made and has very good performance. It is true that some of the stuff from them a few years ago had quality control problems -- but Behringer has since put a lot of effort into eliminating that problem in the last couple of years.

now, i don't really believe a lot of things that they say, and a lot of people on there are nuts. paying 200 bucks for replacement cables on the HD650, which seems ridiculous.

It might seem rediculous, but if you were to try it without any bias controls(bind testing, etc.), you might percieve a difference. These people seem to routinely ignore the psychological factors and assume everything they percieve is due to actual sound difference(s). No one is immune to pschological bias.

how much of a difference would an amp make? little to none you think?

As long as the amplifier has low noise, low distortion and a flat frequency response into a given load, the differences are the features, cosmetics and price.

have you heard many headphone amps?

I have, but that is irrelevant. I refer to the above replies.

-Chris

 

[Rob Babcock]

Hi-fi is a friggin' CULT! I wonder how much gear is bought based on expected sound quality vs the desire to impress others? In my life, I've bought gear for many different reasons, some logical (eg simple curiosity), mass hysteria (ie the latest craze) & for purely social reasons (to gain or maintain the respect of other audiophools). Nowadays I'm more evolved! I now choose on performance, build quality, cool appearance, geek factor & value-for-money. The geek factor is sometimes my downfall...I'm an incurable early adopter.

 

[WmAx]

Hi-fi is a friggin' CULT! I wonder how much gear is bought based on expected sound quality vs the desire to impress others?

Good question. I have had the pleasure of attending one of the biggest head-fi meets in the recent year, and it seemed like it was pretty much just a 'show'. But I like to go in order to listen to a wide variety of headphones. Unfortuntely, I don't know of any stores that actually carry the myriad of hi quality units you can find at one of the bigger head-fi headphone meets. So, I use the meets as if they are product showrooms, to pick out headphones to purchase.

BTW, I believe even most of the headphones are for 'show', too. The only real difference between most after a certain price point is perhaps the frequency response, build quality/cosmetics and the way the headphone feels(fits) on your head. Unlike speakers, headphones don't have the off axis response to contend with, nor the resonant issues inherant of large cabinet structures/volumes.

I really could not talk to anyone, though(except for the traditionaly 'hi', 'excuse me' , 'that's nice, eh?', etc.), otherwise it would have just been one big argument....

-Chris

 

[BluesDaddy]

Hey Chris,

Nice to see another Head-fi denizen here as well. I have hung around here at various times, but not since they've gone to the present format. Audioholics keeps me sane amidst all the audio insanity often served up at Head-fi and other "audiophile" sites. Audioreview forums use to be the same but, alas, no more.

BTW, I'm bluesdaddy there as well. I just recently got a pair of Senn HD-25s which I absolutely love. About the only thing I pay attention to at Head-fi is impressions of headphones since, like speakers, they are really do differ in sonic charicteristics. Also, build quality of components. Otherwise, try to ignore proclaimations of the "sound" of wire, amps, etc. Some guy wrote to me about how an aftermarket rewiring of my Senns with silver solid wire would "lift a veil" and make them sound exponentially better. "Anyone" could hear it, took no effort, blah, blah, blah.

Wondering why no headphone forum here, though.

 

[sugarkang]

hi bluesdaddy.
i've seen your avatar on headfi.

does this mean that there will be no difference between tube vs. solid state amps as well?
and will the headphone jack from a mass market integrated amp be just as good as my corda HA2?

because i've really just wanted to get a NAD 320BEE to use tone controls. none of the audiophile headphone amps seem to implement bass/treble controls. maybe a "bass boost" but i don't like that inflexibility of massive bass or none at all.

 

[WmAx]

hi bluesdaddy.
i've seen your avatar on headfi.

does this mean that there will be no difference between tube vs. solid state amps as well?

If the tube stage is used within a linear range, and properly coupled to the driven load, it would sound the same as a solid state. But rememeber, it is not difficult to purposely design a frequency response difference into the circuit so that it sounds 'different'.

and will the headphone jack from a mass market integrated amp be just as good as my corda HA2?

AUdiblly, I don't see why their would be any difference, unless one of them was purposely designed to have a frequency response diffrence.(non flat)

because i've really just wanted to get a NAD 320BEE to use tone controls. none of the audiophile headphone amps seem to implement bass/treble controls.

The behringer HA4700 has tone controls.....

I still recommend one of the nice Behringer digital EQs for the ultimate in tone shaping.

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

Hi, bluesdaddy. Good to see you here. It is true that headphone impressions are generally useful at headfi. But many of these are full of hype, too!

-Chris

Hey Chris,

Nice to see another Head-fi denizen here as well. I have hung around here at various times, but not since they've gone to the present format. Audioholics keeps me sane amidst all the audio insanity often served up at Head-fi and other "audiophile" sites. Audioreview forums use to be the same but, alas, no more.

BTW, I'm bluesdaddy there as well. I just recently got a pair of Senn HD-25s which I absolutely love. About the only thing I pay attention to at Head-fi is impressions of headphones since, like speakers, they are really do differ in sonic charicteristics. Also, build quality of components. Otherwise, try to ignore proclaimations of the "sound" of wire, amps, etc. Some guy wrote to me about how an aftermarket rewiring of my Senns with silver solid wire would "lift a veil" and make them sound exponentially better. "Anyone" could hear it, took no effort, blah, blah, blah.

Wondering why no headphone forum here, though.

 

[sugarkang]

The behringer HA4700 has tone controls.....

I still recommend one of the nice Behringer digital EQs for the ultimate in tone shaping.

if all else is equal, then i might as well have the option of an amp for home audio.
btw, i really appreciate your comments.

 

[BluesDaddy]

hi bluesdaddy.
i've seen your avatar on headfi.

does this mean that there will be no difference between tube vs. solid state amps as well?
and will the headphone jack from a mass market integrated amp be just as good as my corda HA2?

because i've really just wanted to get a NAD 320BEE to use tone controls. none of the audiophile headphone amps seem to implement bass/treble controls. maybe a "bass boost" but i don't like that inflexibility of massive bass or none at all.

No, because differently designed electronics CAN sound different, especially tubes (which demonstrably distort the signal, albeit in a way many people find pleasant) and transistors. But they should sound different only when either specifically designed to, or when reaching limits of performance. All things being equal, similarly designed components should sound the same.

As far as headphone jacks vs. separate amps, I can't really say because I don't have any experience. However, it makes sense that an underpowered and/or impedence mismatched headphone jack will not sound as good on a given set of headphones as a dedicated, well designed and implemented, headphone amplifier.

Ah, but wires are another thing. Some of the fun kind of stuff that goes on at Head-fi may be seen at http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=85999

 

[BluesDaddy]

Hi, bluesdaddy. Good to see you here. It is true that headphone impressions are generally useful at headfi. But many of these are full of hype, too!

-Chris

You're undoubtedly correct, especially in light of my recent experience with the guy trashing the Senn HD25s for being "muddy" in the bass and then telling me my experience with well defined and balanced bass using a sub didn't translate into being able to tell whether the bass in my headphones was also well defined and balanced.

What I do appeciated is being tipped to so my outstanding headphones out there. And I love the Senn HD25s, which I probably would not have stettled on without the input from Head-Fi. That said, I can't say I wouldn't have been equally thrilled with a half dozen other cans in my price range that were sealed.

 

[WmAx]

No, because differently designed electronics CAN sound different, especially tubes (which demonstrably distort the signal, albeit in a way many people find pleasant) and transistors. But they should sound different only when either specifically designed to, or when reaching limits of performance. All things being equal, similarly designed components should sound the same.

While select tube amps for speakers have been known to produce THD levels withint human thresholds(SETs, specifically), I've never seen confirmation of a headphone amplifier with audible THD levels.

As far as headphone jacks vs. separate amps, I can't really say because I don't have any experience. However, it makes sense that an underpowered and/or impedence mismatched headphone jack will not sound as good on a given set of headphones as a dedicated, well designed and implemented, headphone amplifier.

I don't see why a dedicated headphone amplifier is needed unless it's a case of functionality. For example, if one has only a headphone based home system, and needs one to connect to their source. Or if one needs to be able to level match independt headphones for instant comparision(why i recommended the HA4700 to the other user) . But if the existing equipment already has a headphone output that is stabile with the load, and provides adequate voltage(assuming high impedance headphone), then I can not concieve of why any modern, integrated well-made gear would have a compromising heapdhone jack.

Ah, but wires are another thing. Some of the fun kind of stuff that goes on at Head-fi may be seen at http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=85999

[/QUOTE]

Ok, now this link it just too funny.

BTW, I noticed a slight error in one of your posts. Humans can detect a [1] 0.7dB change in general sources, or nearly [1] 0.2dB with broadband test signals such as white noise.

Normally, level matching is required to be within 0.1dB for credible tests, not within 1dB.

[1] The Subjective Loudness of Typical Program Material
Gilbert A. Soulodre, Michel C. Lavoie, and Scott *. Norcross
AES Preprint: 5892

-Chris

 

[Unregistered]

BTW, I noticed a slight error in one of your posts. Humans can detect a [1] 0.7dB change in general sources, or nearly [1] 0.2dB with broadband test signals such as white noise.

Normally, level matching is required to be within 0.1dB for credible tests, not within 1dB.

[1] The Subjective Loudness of Typical Program Material
Gilbert A. Soulodre, Michel C. Lavoie, and Scott *. Norcross
AES Preprint: 5892

-Chris

Thanks for pointing out my error. BTW, did you do so there? Seriously, it is amazing the amount of "group think" that goes on. The guy talking about how the double blind A/B testing of headphones didn't give you enough time to really listen, that sort of cracked me up. I mean, when it's "obvious" and "if you can't hear it you need a different hobby" then even a really short listening period would demonstrate it, wouldn't it? Secondly, no one ever said double blind ABX had to be of short durations. Listen for an hour for heaven's sake, then another hour to another set of headphones.

Well, I still like my HD25s. They even sound good out of my laptop's headphone out playing MP3s.

 

[BluesDaddy]

The post above is from me. For some reason I wasn't logged in automatically.

 

[WmAx]

Well, I still like my HD25s. They even sound good out of my laptop's headphone out playing MP3s.

Hey, well I'm sure that I would be looked down upon by these people. For portable use, I use a Sony MDR-CD3000(modified with some cotton fabric over teh drivers -- a little too much treble for me without the cloth) driven with a Creative Labs Zen Xtra MP3 player. They would probably consider this 'abusing' the headphone. LOL.

At that Maryland meet this year, I was suprised by the lack of difference between a very expensive tube headphone amp vs. a sony discman. I carried around some test discs so that two setups could be played siultaneously. [1] I rather expected this very expensive tube amp to have an obvious frequency response difference, but alas, it seemd to be very accurate -- just like the Sony Discman. This was not a blind test, I will admit. I can also be 'reverse' biased -- but I actually expected a differnce in this case. Just because of [1]. I did not have the means to perform such a test in this case -- so some small FR or level matching difference may have been present that would have been apparent in a better comparison. But the best part was when some audiophiles walked in the room with me and noticed me using Sony MDR-R10 headphones on a Sony Discman. Priceless.

-Chris

 

[Steve1000]

I've been into headphones for about 25 years. I can vouch for the view that in the headphone world, sources, cables, and amps are massively over-rated. Unless you are into it and completely fascinated by it beyond rationality (as I am), standard inexpensive but decent receivers, cables, and sources will take you to the top of the mountain sonically very quickly, assuming you are not interested in sound-shaping capabilities beyond searching for a headphone you like a lot.

My two biggest thrills as a headphone enthusiast have been in the last several months, from the pro-audio world, with the Behringer DEQ2496 digital equalizer ($300) and the Behringer UB802 mixer ($60). The DEQ2496 gives you tremendous sound-shaping capabilities (parametric and graphic EQ, dynamic compression and and expansion, image compression and expansion, noise gate, real time analyzer with mic input, etc. etc. etc.) and the UB802 gives you tremendous amplifying capabilities (high performance and features including panning controls to merge or reverse channels, three way tone controls, 4 inputs, etc., in a relatively small and light housing, at a low low price). The DEQ2496 is just a thrilling and fascinating piece of gear, destined for the status of legendary audio equipment, IMHO.

http://www.behringer.com/DEQ2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG

http://www.behringer.com/UB802/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Downside to the UB802: no on-off switch (I use a power strip).

I also have a Corda HA-1 headphone amp. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it, and the noise floor is extremely low, and you get a theoretically ideal near-0 ohm jack and an industry-standard 120 ohm jack. And the volume knob is wonderful, a nice, big, finely adjustable knob. Three levels of crossfeed if you want to try that. Seemingly unsusceptible to ground loop noise. Very well done. A nice piece of jewelry, and I'm glad to have it. IMHO, anything in an amp performing at a level above the HA-1 would be a complete and utter waste of money. In fact, you could pay a lot less (e.*., UB802) and loose nothing in terms of audible performance. But it's a pretty good no-nonsense effort at DIY hyper-performance, IMHO.

But the DEQ2496 and the UB802 COMBINED cost about the same as the HA-1. If I had to do it over again, I'd skip the HA-1. Fortunately I bought the HA-1 first so I don't have to choose.