Simaudio Moon CP-8 AV Processor: A Denon Receiver in Sim Clothing?

[3db]

That would be a good investment. Those 12V fans would run quietly at high enough speed with half the voltage. The thing should last for a long time even at 50C operating temperature but Cooler temperature invariably means extended trouble free life.

When one has to buy after market fans to keep an AVR cool, then IHO, the engineers screwed up on the thermal analysis. This seems to be an ongoing theme with Onkyo for some reason. No other AVR manufacturer I know of has had heat dissipation problems like Onkyo. I don't get it. It really is daft.

 

[PENG]

When one has to buy after market fans to keep an AVR cool, then IHO, the engineers screwed up on the thermal analysis. This seems to be an ongoing theme with Onkyo for some reason. No other AVR manufacturer I know of has had heat dissipation problems like Onkyo. I don't get it. It really is daft.

I agree, it has got to do with their design. it is interesting to see that Onky may be the only one who is very specific about the requirements of 8" of free space at the top and sides as well as 4" at the rear. I wonder how many users follow or even have the placement flexibility to follow such instruction.

With my Marantz, I would have been fine with even 4.75" at the top but I can only give it 1.75" since I replaced the Oppo 95 with the 105 that is taller and needed more headroom (they eliminated the fan) and that's the reason I have to add fans.


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[RichB]

When one has to buy after market fans to keep an AVR cool, then IHO, the engineers screwed up on the thermal analysis. This seems to be an ongoing theme with Onkyo for some reason. No other AVR manufacturer I know of has had heat dissipation problems like Onkyo. I don't get it. It really is daft.

Apparently, not just Onkyo since the Marantz AV8801 runs hot without amps

- Rich

 

[garypen]

Fyi

TAD is a division of Pioneer. There is no "collaboration". If he works for TAD, he works for Pioneer.

 

[3db]

Apparently, not just Onkyo since the Marantz AV8801 runs hot without amps

- Rich

Is Marantz known for premature failures because they running hot? If not, then Marantz did adequate thermal analysis...

 

[PENG]

Is Marantz known for premature failures because they running hot? If not, then Marantz did adequate thermal analysis...

I don't think so. I do know Rich and I are not the only who have added fan(s) to the 8801 going by posts by owners but I would say in every case it is only because the owners could not provide the typical kind of space for naturing ventilation. Onkyo on the other hand requires extra clearance spaces all around the unit, and that tells me most people should install a fan or two if they want to stay out of trouble.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Is Marantz known for premature failures because they running hot? If not, then Marantz did adequate thermal analysis...

I've seen that Marantz, and I'm not surprised at all that it runs hot. Powered up the 8801 dissipates 90 watts continuously, according to the spec sheet. It's full of digital processing and line-level audio circuits, and I assume they don't do sophisticated power management, so all of that circuitry is active all the time. Line-level audio op-amps are typically run in something approximating Class A, so add it all up and the 8801 puts out about a comparable level of heat as a high-power Class AB stereo amplifier in typical use. I doubt heat alone is shortening its life, but I would give it lots of air space.

 

[3db]

I've seen that Marantz, and I'm not surprised at all that it runs hot. Powered up the 8801 dissipates 90 watts continuously, according to the spec sheet. It's full of digital processing and line-level audio circuits, and I assume they don't do sophisticated power management, so all of that circuitry is active all the time. Line-level audio op-amps are typically run in something approximating Class A, so add it all up and the 8801 puts out about a comparable level of heat as a high-power Class AB stereo amplifier in typical use. I doubt heat alone is shortening its life, but I would give it lots of air space.

My point Irv is that Onkyo does a poor job in their thermal analysis, especially compared to similar powered AVRs. Rich B mentioned that the Marantz prepro runs hot but is not known for premature failures like Onkyo. This tells me that Marantz got the thermal analysis correct.

Things may look great on paper but when a unit begins to fail earlier than expected, it takes the shine out of owning it rather quickly.

 

[fuzz092888]

My point Irv is that Onkyo does a poor job in their thermal analysis, especially compared to similar powered AVRs. Rich B mentioned that the Marantz prepro runs hot but is not known for premature failures like Onkyo. This tells me that Marantz got the thermal analysis correct.

Things may look great on paper but when a unit begins to fail earlier than expected, it takes the shine out of owning it rather quickly.

As far as I can tell this isn't true on their 30XX/50XX models.

 

[Irvrobinson]

My point Irv is that Onkyo does a poor job in their thermal analysis, especially compared to similar powered AVRs. Rich B mentioned that the Marantz prepro runs hot but is not known for premature failures like Onkyo. This tells me that Marantz got the thermal analysis correct.

Things may look great on paper but when a unit begins to fail earlier than expected, it takes the shine out of owning it rather quickly.

You may have point, though I'm not sure how bad it really is for longevity. The ICs are probably good to something like 140F or more, but perhaps the larger caps will degrade faster. I'm not really disagreeing, Marantz probably should have put a variable speed fan in 8801; lots of people run their pre-pros for many hours.

 

[RichB]

Is Marantz known for premature failures because they running hot? If not, then Marantz did adequate thermal analysis...

The one I knew was known for it. I had to send it in for repair when Trigger1 failed.
I also had a defective power receptacle so they replaced that and the cord while they were at it.

That is why, the replacement unit has a fan blowing on it.
They probably did an adequate analysis but the design, meh.

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I haven't looked at the differences very closely between Levinson and ATI stock amps. Another forum member here has and maybe he will chime in. I would suspect Lexicon took a base ATI design and asked them to make a few upgrades to fit their needs. I don't think the top end Levinson is an ATI design however but I can be mistaken.

I asked ATI if they built some amps for Mark Levinson. They said that they were not allowed to disclose, which is, of course, understandable.

So as we all know, not all ML amps are made by ATI, but some ML amps are "unofficially" made by ATI.

A friend of mine asked ML if ATI make some amps for ML. ML understandably denied. So that's where we are.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The AV8801 measured 129 degrees in the center back (using an infrared thermometer) after hours of use.

I've been listening to my AVP for about an hour. I just measured the temp. On the sides, it's 72 F degrees. On top it's 75 F degrees.

I remember measuring in the hot summer and it was 90s F.

But I would also be concerned w/ 120F+ Temp in terms of longevity (as Irvrobinson mentioned).

 

[3db]

As far as I can tell this isn't true on their 30XX/50XX models.

I sure hope you have good luck with yours.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I sure hope you have good luck with yours.

Are you pretty much Yamaha for life like I am Denon for life?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[3db]

Are you pretty much Yamaha for life like I am Denon for life?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

Yup!! However, I wish they would bring back the "Orange" ...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yup!! However, I wish they would bring back the "Orange" ...

So are you dreaming about their new separate pre-pro and amp? Seems like a great deal, especially if you personally know a Yamaha dealer.

Does Yamaha have Sub EQ (Dynamic EQ) like Denon/ Marantz? Someone is asking that question on another thread.

 

[RichB]

Speaking of improved HDMI cables here are the new Monoprice Ultra slim 18Gbs series.

These cables support all of the following features from the latest HDMI spec:

• 4096x2160p (4K) UHDTV resolution @ 60 Hz refresh rate
• Up to 32 audio channels
• Up to 1536 KHz audio sampling rate
• Simultaneous delivery of dual video streams
• Simultaneous delivery of multi-stream audio to 4 clients
• Full support for the 21:9 cinema aspect ratio
• Dynamic synchronization of audio and video streams
• Extended CEC (Consumer Electronics Control) commands and functions

Additionally, these cables support all the following features from previous HDMI specifications:

• 1920x1080p HDTV resolution @ 60 Hz refresh rate
• 4096x2160p (4K) resolution @ 30 Hz refresh rate
• 3D video
• Deep Color up to 16-bits per channel (48-bit total)
• x.v.Color™
• Audio Return Channel
• HDMI Ethernet Channel
• High definition multichannel audio, including DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD™

- Rich

 

[bogrod]

For an example, when they discuss that thery 'hear a difference" over the Onkyo that they just sold and now love the Marantz, is it all in their head like you alluded to?

I don't even recall bringing up differences between these two brands, but - yes - there are examples where differences are indeed just in someone's head.

Were they all hoodwinked?

Belief is a powerful thing. Belief doesn't necessarily always translate to reality.

Don't bother listening to it. Have Gene measure it. (Using Marshall's suggestion) Gene will tell you if it sounds better only if it measures better.

Just because item A measures better than item B does not necessarily mean that we as humans can perceive the difference between two items.

I propose that at least part of the Simaudio "outrage" is because of a hidden jealousy that people refuse to admit. Here we are talking about a 5 year old story and a site that seemingly wants to smear a company. You have not all heard about it because it's WAY outside of your budget.

I already explained my own perspective on this topic (jealous of those with $$$) in my previous posting.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

On the plus side, if the Simaudio uses Audyssey Dynamic EQ, then it might sound better than other ultra high-end ultra-expensive pre-pro that do not have Audyssey at all.