Schiit Yggdrasil DAC and Ragnarok Amplifier Review

[gene]

The Schiit Yggdrasil & Ragnarok represent Schiit’s finest creations to date. With multibit architecture and a thoroughly engineered component system, the pair offer incredible sound without compromise. At $2299 and $1699, respectively, the models are a big investment which in my opinion, is worth taking considering the durable design and exceptional sonics. Coupled with the Ragnarok’s great versatility and the Yggdrasil’s adept technical abilities, there really is no room to go wrong.

Read the review to find out more...

Read: Schiit Yggdrasil DAC and Ragnarok Amplifier Review

 

[TLS Guy]

"With a name like Schiit it has to be good!"

 

[Paul Lane]

No Remote is a dealbreaker for me.. how about Aurilic?

 

[Alexandre]

I am personally a fan of Schiit, both their spirit and their products. I bought a Fulla (their small DAC) a while back – I'd give it a 7 out of 10 – and more recently a Magni/Modi stack and I am very happy with it – I'd give it 8 or 9 out of 10 –! And like Smit said in his review, their attitude and sense of humor is refreshing in the high-end world of audio!

Alex.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

As highlighted above, the Yggdrasil is the world’s first and only closed-form multibit DAC with 21 bits of resolution. This places it in stark contrast to the 24 and 32-bit delta-sigma DACs often found within the audiophile marketplace.

Last I checked more bits means better resolution....
As for DAC "value" - So $2200 asked for $200 worth of fancy case plus $50-100 on rest of inside components.... No thanks, I pass.

 

[Alexandre]

Last I checked more bits means better resolution....
As for DAC "value" - So $2200 asked for $200 worth of fancy case plus $50-100 on rest of inside components.... No thanks, I pass.

You're trolling right?

One can definitely screw up most of the bits so, more bits doesn't necessarily mean more resolution, it's not the size of the bits, it's how you use them that matters!

Their FAQ "addresses" the more bits thing, albeit in a very very tongue in cheek way but eh…

But the Arglebargle has like twelve 32-bit DACs in it! Yours only has 21 bits! Hell, that’s not a full 24 bits even! What about my 24-bit recordings?
If your 24 bit recordings actually have 24 bits of resolution, we’ll eat a hat. And those "32-bit" DACs? Well, they have this measurement known as “equivalent number of bits.” This means, in English, how many bits of resolution they really have. And that number is 19.5. And 21 is better than 19.5, in all the math books we know.

But it’s only 21 bits! I can’t get over that!
We can’t get over the fact that delta-sigma DACs throw away all the original samples. Different strokes for different folks.​

That having been said, I'm not about to go and buy that dac/amp combo.

Cheers,
Alex.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

You're trolling right?

One can definitely screw up most of the bits so, more bits doesn't necessarily mean more resolution, it's not the size of the bits, it's how you use them that matters!

Their FAQ "addresses" the more bits thing, albeit in a very very tongue in cheek way but eh…

But the Arglebargle has like twelve 32-bit DACs in it! Yours only has 21 bits! Hell, that’s not a full 24 bits even! What about my 24-bit recordings?
If your 24 bit recordings actually have 24 bits of resolution, we’ll eat a hat. And those "32-bit" DACs? Well, they have this measurement known as “equivalent number of bits.” This means, in English, how many bits of resolution they really have. And that number is 19.5. And 21 is better than 19.5, in all the math books we know.

But it’s only 21 bits! I can’t get over that!
We can’t get over the fact that delta-sigma DACs throw away all the original samples. Different strokes for different folks.​

That having been said, I'm not about to go and buy that dac/amp combo.

Cheers,
Alex.

I live and die by motto - more is better ;-) and that sure as heck includes my dac bits, realistically wise, they are they have some point - there are very few recordings which truly use all of 24 bit range, but they force extra processing, then on 24 bit dac it would've unnecessary.

 

[Swerd]

You're trolling right?

I'm not BoredSysAdmin, but I'm pretty sure he isn't trolling about this.

That having been said, I'm not about to go and buy that dac/amp combo.

I'm glad you said it first. $1700 for a DAC or $2300 for an amp is a lot of money. A well-worn motto comes to mind, "We don't go there, and you shouldn't either" .

I know of some speakers I think are worth that kind of money, but not any upstream electronics.

 

[lovinthehd]

That kind of money just to own a funny brand name? No thanks.

 

[IEMPatel]

Last I checked more bits means better resolution....
As for DAC "value" - So $2200 asked for $200 worth of fancy case plus $50-100 on rest of inside components.... No thanks, I pass.

I think you should research more rather than plucking random numbers from the air. The military-grade AD5791 DAC in the Yggdrasil is alone worth more than you're suggesting as part of the inside components.

As Alexandre has mentioned, more bits does not necessarily mean more resolution. Schiit's digital filter which retains all the original samples (allowing for true interpolation) really gets the best out of ordinary music files. I was surprised at the amount of detail extracted from them and hence a reason why multibit architecture is beneficial for acoustically recorded music.

That kind of money just to own a funny brand name? No thanks.

This is a sad and unfortunate reason why I might see some people overlooking this product. I think the name may come across as facetious and flippant but again I feel it adds to the company's charm and appeal. The sound quality of the product itself should do the talking and not the name which can be easily looked over.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think you should research more rather than plucking random numbers from the air. The military-grade AD5791 DAC in the Yggdrasil is alone worth more than you're suggesting as part of the inside components.



This is a sad and unfortunate reason why I might see some people overlooking this product. I think the name may come across as facetious and flippant but again I feel it adds to the company's charm and appeal. The sound quality of the product itself should do the talking and not the name which can be easily looked over.

What benefit does a "military grade" DAC bring? You can take it into battle? So which of the series is it? http://www.mouser.com/Analog-Devices-Inc/Semiconductors/Data-Converter-ICs/Digital-to-Analog-Converters-DAC/AD5791-Series/_/N-4c44d?P=1yygvtyZ1yyh4l4

The cost alone for a dac and amp is what would keep me away....there's a lot of stuff out there that can do the job for less....

 

[slipperybidness]

What benefit does a "military grade" DAC bring? You can take it into battle? So which of the series is it? http://www.mouser.com/Analog-Devices-Inc/Semiconductors/Data-Converter-ICs/Digital-to-Analog-Converters-DAC/AD5791-Series/_/N-4c44d?P=1yygvtyZ1yyh4l4

The cost alone for a dac and amp is what would keep me away....there's a lot of stuff out there that can do the job for less....

Well, that is indeed a heck of a DAC. It isn't an audio DAC, it is an instrumentation DAC!

In other words, it is overkill. It is an awesome DAC IC, indeed.

But, does it really have AUDIBLE advantages over a TI DAC? Likely not.

 

[IEMPatel]

What benefit does a "military grade" DAC bring? You can take it into battle? So which of the series is it? http://www.mouser.com/Analog-Devices-Inc/Semiconductors/Data-Converter-ICs/Digital-to-Analog-Converters-DAC/AD5791-Series/_/N-4c44d?P=1yygvtyZ1yyh4l4

The cost alone for a dac and amp is what would keep me away....there's a lot of stuff out there that can do the job for less....

It implements 4 of the AD5791BRUZ series of DAC. Schiit claim the reason why they have implemented a DAC which can be found in medical applications (MRI results) and that of the military (ensuring a missile hits their target) is that of bit-perfect precision rather than the 'guesswork' from delta-sigma DACs.

 

[slipperybidness]

It implements 4 of the AD5791BRUZ series of DAC. Schiit claim the reason why they have implemented a DAC which can be found in medical applications (MRI results) and that of the military (ensuring a missile hits their target) is that of bit-perfect precision rather than the 'guesswork' from delta-sigma DACs.

Marketing!

All DACs are guesswork, it's just a matter of "how good is the guess" and "how good does the guess need to be?"

 

[slipperybidness]

Info on Delta-Sig:
Oversampling DACs or interpolating DACs such as the delta-sigma DAC, use a pulse density conversion technique. The oversampling technique allows for the use of a lower resolution DAC internally. A simple 1-bit DAC is often chosen because the oversampled result is inherently linear. The DAC is driven with a pulse-density modulated signal, created with the use of a low-pass filter, step nonlinearity (the actual 1-bit DAC), and negative feedback loop, in a technique called delta-sigma modulation. This results in an effective high-pass filter acting on the quantization (signal processing) noise, thus steering this noise out of the low frequencies of interest into the megahertz frequencies of little interest, which is called noise shaping. The quantization noise at these high frequencies is removed or greatly attenuated by use of an analog low-pass filter at the output (sometimes a simple RC low-pass circuit is sufficient). Most very high resolution DACs (greater than 16 bits) are of this type due to its high linearity and low cost. Higher oversampling rates can relax the specifications of the output low-pass filter and enable further suppression of quantization noise. Speeds of greater than 100 thousand samples per second (for example, 192 kHz) and resolutions of 24 bits are attainable with delta-sigma DACs. A short comparison with pulse-width modulation shows that a 1-bit DAC with a simple first-order integrator would have to run at 3 THz (which is physically unrealizable) to achieve 24 meaningful bits of resolution, requiring a higher-order low-pass filter in the noise-shaping loop. A single integrator is a low-pass filter with a frequency response inversely proportional to frequency and using one such integrator in the noise-shaping loop is a first order delta-sigma modulator. Multiple higher order topologies (such as MASH) are used to achieve higher degrees of noise-shaping with a stable topology.

Vs the R-2R topology:
The R-2R ladder DAC which is a binary-weighted DAC that uses a repeating cascaded structure of resistor values R and 2R. This improves the precision due to the relative ease of producing equal valued-matched resistors (or current sources).

 

[RichB]

Schiit is an interesting company. One founder fought against implementing a USB interface, you should read some of the founder posts. I tend to buy that since my experience is that the USB interface has far more sensitivity to the source than you would be led to believe by examining measurements made in the lab.

The refuse to overly market the Schiit Wryd "decrapifier":

From the Schiit web site:

Today, Schiit Audio announced the immediate availability of its new Wyrd USB Isolator, or, more colloquially, the Wyrd USB Decrapifier. Wyrd isolates USB-input DACs from power supply noise from computer USB sources, eliminating strange noises, dropouts, and power management problems with USB audio interfaces.

“If you’re having trouble with your USB-input DAC from a computer source, Wyrd may be the perfect answer,” said Jason Stoddard, Schiit’s Co-Founder.

Schiit has measured USB power supply noise up to 400mV p-p on computer USB outputs. Wyrd replaces this “dirty” power with clean power from a linear supply with ultra-low-noise (2.5uV) voltage regulators—more than 100,000x less than what comes out of some USB ports. It also repeats the USB signal with a low-jitter, 20ppm crystal oscillator, with its own local low-noise power supply for higher performance.

“Some of our early listeners also claim that Wyrd improves sonic performance, as well,” Jason continued. “But we’re not going to say this. Bottom line, it’s a great way to solve some irritating USB audio interface problems. That’s it.”

Schiit seems to be a company grounded in good engineering. The Yggdrasil is an interesting product that I would love to try at home. I don't because, it is silver, expensive, and the HA-1 sounds excellent.

- Rich

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I think you should research more rather than plucking random numbers from the air. The military-grade AD5791 DAC in the Yggdrasil is alone worth more than you're suggesting as part of the inside components.

I want to puke on word combination of DAC and Military grade.
AD5791 - It does come in several different packaging. Prices on Mouser should in cheapest packaging option, AD5791ARUZ, costs only $47 for 250 orders or (potentially) less on larger orders.
Ok, so they used (some) unnecessary expensive components. Does this make it perform better in real life? I highly doubt it.
My original cost estimation may have been off a bit. Probably upto $200-300 total in parts and I'm being very generous. Some margin goes for development/testing/marketing. But realistically this device has VERY healthy margin for sure.

 

[lovinthehd]

It implements 4 of the AD5791BRUZ series of DAC. Schiit claim the reason why they have implemented a DAC which can be found in medical applications (MRI results) and that of the military (ensuring a missile hits their target) is that of bit-perfect precision rather than the 'guesswork' from delta-sigma DACs.

So it doesn't sound like you understand the benefits either...can you hear differences in various dacs?

 

[IEMPatel]

So it doesn't sound like you understand the benefits either...can you hear differences in various dacs?

Well, that is indeed a heck of a DAC. It isn't an audio DAC, it is an instrumentation DAC!

In other words, it is overkill. It is an awesome DAC IC, indeed.

But, does it really have AUDIBLE advantages over a TI DAC? Likely not.

Implementation is key but I believe multibit architecture certainly does have audio advantages over the delta-sigma counterpart. For one, I believe it is superior in the reproduction of acoustic music. That is, tracks sound more layered and natural (more akin to vinyl) compared to the slightly linear and compressed quality of delta-sigma DACs.

 

[slipperybidness]

Schiit is an interesting company. One founder fought against implementing a USB interface, you should read some of the founder posts. I tend to buy that since my experience is that the USB interface has far more sensitivity to the source than you would be led to believe by examining measurements made in the lab.

The refuse to overly market the Schiit Wryd "decrapifier":

From the Schiit web site:



Schiit seems to be a company grounded in good engineering. The Yggdrasil is an interesting product that I would love to try at home. I don't because, it is silver, expensive, and the HA-1 sounds excellent.

- Rich

I absolutely agree! I try to avoid USB connections at any place that I can, especially if it's audio.

The only benefits of USB--

It's ubiquitous
It's easy for noobs
It carries power and data (could be an advantage and/or a disadvantage)

From what I can see, I agree that Schiit seems to build good products with thoughtful engineering (likely over-engineering), but they are pricey.