Ringing sound?

[davee70]

My stereo system has developed a ringing sound in the left channel. At first I thought it was just some distortion or mic noise that had found its way into a live recording I was listening to (a performance of Mahler's 6th symphony by the Philadelphia Orchestra - a great new SACD by the way, Cristoph Eschenbach conducting, on the Ondine label). But then I heard it in a Vladimer Ashkenazy recording of Chopin piano pieces (a 2 CD classic from Decca recorded in the 70's and early 80's - also highly recommended). So it must be my system. When I put my ear right up to the speaker while playing the piano pieces it had a ringing kind of reverbation sound to it. Not high pitched, just a ringing, reverb-like effect. It's not overwhelming or loud but it is distinctly noticeable, enough so that I cannot listen to it now, it is so bothersome. My ear goes right to it.

What could be causing it? The speaker is a Veritas 2.3i floorstander I bought new two years ago. I'm still in the process of upgrading my system and I currently have a "vintage" Onkyo Integra TX-890 that I acquired on eBay a few years ago. I'm using the "CD Direct" input for all my input sources (excepting phono, of course) in order to bypass the TX-890 tone control circuitry. I have a 4-way switch I found at Lowes (seriously! the RCA jacks are even gold plated!) which I use to select the input source. And it has sounds absolutely fantastic - that is until now. When I switch to the regular CD input on the TX-890 and switch to mono, the ringing sound stays in the left channel. It is present when I listen with my trusty (but not very good sounding it turns out) early 90's vintage Onkyo DX-703 CD player or my 3 year old Denon DVD-2900 universal player (which I also acquired on eBay recently and sounds surprisingly good, even on CDs).

UPDATE: The distortion is not present when listening on my Beyerdynamic DT-770 headphones through the front panel headphone out of the TX-890.

I should also note that I'm running the pre-outs on the TX-890 to a Velodyne DD-15 subwoofer (which I bought new this past summer) and then back to the main ins, bypassing the 80 Hz passive high pass filter on the DD-15. There are no video sources connected to the system.

I'm hoping the answer is the TX-890 because I plan to replace it anyway. It runs hot (which is normal I assume) and has developed a distinct hum which is audible when you put your ear right up to it.

So what do you think the problem is, the receiver or something else?

I do not play music loud - heck, the listening position is only 6 feet away from my speakers! So I doubt that I have could have overdriven them. Clipping? Never! Any reason to suspect that the DVD player could be sending high frequency noise from SACDs to the speakers, harming the aluminum dome tweeters? Where do I start?

EDIT: Is this the right forum?

 

[davee70]

Well I did the obvious and switched the left and right speaker cables. The result was ...........

no change. Ugh!

I guess that means it's the Veritas 2.3i not the Onkyo Integra TX-890.

I removed the grille cloth to see if I could tell where the distortion was coming from. Listening to the piano pieces it seems to be the aluminum dome midrange speaker rather than the tweeter or either of the two woofers. The 2" aluminum dome midrange speaker is what gives the Veritas i's their distinctive sound - a crystal clear yet neutral midrange.

Fortunately, the 2.3i has a 5 year warranty but I dread the thought of having to have it serviced. I have no idea what Energy's reputation is in that department but I guess I'm going to find out.

Wish me well. Anyone who's had experience in my situation and has any advice to offer I'd love to hear from you.

 

[markw]

Try one more thing.

You did good to switch the channels electreically to help isolate the problem.

The next step is to physically switch the speakers to see if it's really the speaker or some sort of funky room resonance.

ya never know...

 

[davee70]

The next step is to physically switch the speakers to see if it's really the speaker or some sort of funky room resonance.

ya never know...

I've had the Veritas 2 years now and they've been my pride and joy. It's painful to even think about sending them off to be repaired.

The problem seems to be with the 2" aluminum dome midrange speaker. I don't know if repositioning the unit would change anything but I will have to move it anyway so it couldn't hurt to try it one last time before shipping it off.

I still have the original factory cartons but they're really not suitable for shipping by themselves. The speaker itself weighs 68 lbs. I've contacted Energy by e-mail to find out what to do next and I'm waiting for a reply. Apparently they have a repair facility in Buffalo. I'm also going to talk to the dealer where I purchased them.

 

[davee70]

I just talked to the dealer and they suggested I bring both speakers in for them to look at. They said they would take care of it if any repairs are needed. If it's not something they can do themselves, they can ship it to an authorized repair facility. (Obviously, I wouldn't want them to do anything that would void the 5 year warranty.)

Does it make sense to have them look at both speakers? The aluminum dome midrange speaker and aluminum dome tweeter look to be all one assembly, so if it is the midrange speaker, the whole assembly might have to be replaced. If that's necessary, should the assemblies in both speakers be replaced to be sure they're matched? or just to be cautious?

The right speaker doesn't show any sign of a problem, not to my ears anyway and I've been listening to them for the past 2 years. I'm leary of having it taken apart if it doesn't really need to be but if it's a simple job to remove the assembly and inspect it, should I be?

 

[davee70]

The USA National Service Manager from API Corp., the company that handles Energy speakers, replied to my e-mail earlier today and told me to remove the tweeter/midrange module from the cabinet and send it to them for repair/replacement.

So I guess that is what the dealer will handle for me. Having no experience at it, going that way is probably the best thing for me to do.

 

[davee70]

what would I be getting into?

What would I be getting into if I attempted to remove the tweeter/midrange assembly myself as suggested by the Energy service rep.?

I was looking at the speaker last night and thinking about what a pain it is going to be to haul it off to the dealer which is not exactly a quick jaunt. Even though it would fit nicely in the back of my Subaru wagon with no trouble, getting it in and out myself and then again at the dealership I'd be worried it could get banged around or dinged and as I am fanatically devoted to these Veritas 2.3i's I would be very unhappy if that happened! They look almost as good as they sound.

Looking at the front of the speaker, there are 6 hexagonal screws that hold the assemby in place which I was able to loosen up with no trouble. However, I don't know what to expect if I actually remove them. It looks like the black-colored flange on the front baffle may be partly cosmetic. The front baffle itself is finished in a piano black. I don't know what the mounting looks like underneath. Even if I can get the assembly out alright, when the replacement unit arrives will I be able to get it back in? There's no way to access it from the rear. And I have a hard time visualizing how I would hold the assembly in place while trying to screw it back in on the front.

How are tweeter's typically mounted? Are they just screwed down on the front baffle in front or from behind?

Am I fretting too much and making it harder than it really is? I suppose I could bail if I run into trouble and take it to the dealer but I don't want to end up in that situation. Of course, if I accidentally damage something, all bets are off as far as the warranty is concerned.

It does seem strange to me that the Energy service rep. gave no instructions at all on how to remove the tweeter/midrange assembly. And not surprisingly there's nothing on their web site. No drawings or anything to go by.

 

[hemiram]

It shouldn't be a problem, I've changed out tweeters and mids several times over the years without any problems. Usually, there's a couple wires that have to be slid off of terminals on the back, or there's a pigtail with a little plug that connects to the wires from the crossover. The harder one is the terminals that sometimes are kind of "stuck" due to age, but hard is a relative term.

I wouldn't worry about it, take pics if you need to, but this is about as hard as unscrewing a light fixture and changing a bulb. A lot easier than shipping the speakers out, and less chance of damage too.

 

[davee70]

The light bulb analogy is an apt one as I later found out.

Still not clear on what I was getting into and not wanting to take it to the dealer, I decided to call API in Buffalo, NY and the receptionist quickly put me through to a technical service representative who happened to be the very same person who wrote "remove the tweeter/midrange module" in response to my earlier e-mail. I told him the problem and just to be sure I hadn't missed anything he very patiently explained what to do not once but twice (or was it 3 times?), it sounded so simple.

I unscrewed the six wood screws with an allen wrench, pulled out the tweeter/midrange module, and disconnected the color coded and polarity-differentiated connectors and it was free.

The heart of the now gaping-open and mortally wounded speaker cabinet was placed in a gallon-sized Zip Loc freezer bag, swaddled in bubble wrap, and laid to rest with a copy of the sales receipt in a sturdy box for shipping.

Saturday morning I went to the post office and sent it off to NY. I'm hoping they will send me a new one just as soon as they receive it and I'll be back in business by the end of the week. Or so I'd like to think.

 

[davee70]

back in business

Ok, I'm back in business.

UPS delivered the tweeter/midrange module today and I connected it up and listened to my test CD (Vladimer Ashkenazy playing Chopin's piano sonatas, as before) and the ringing-reverb like distortion is no longer there .... nyet .... nada.

The tweeter/midrange module appears to be the exact same one I took out so they must have repaired it somehow. The midrange speaker appears to be glued to the assembly so it's hard to imagine exactly what they could have done to fix it. However, if hearing is believing it's ok now.

And there's still three more years to go on the warranty.

 

[Haoleb]

Ok, I'm back in business.

UPS delivered the tweeter/midrange module today and I connected it up and listened to my test CD (Vladimer Ashkenazy playing Chopin's piano sonatas, as before) and the ringing-reverb like distortion is no longer there .... nyet .... nada.

The tweeter/midrange module appears to be the exact same one I took out so they must have repaired it somehow. The midrange speaker appears to be glued to the assembly so it's hard to imagine exactly what they could have done to fix it. However, if hearing is believing it's ok now.

And there's still three more years to go on the warranty.

Good to hear it It was a good chance to peek inside your speakers too. I dunno, I guess I just like that

 

[davee70]

Yeah, it was kinda cool to see inside. Very well built cabinet from what I can tell but no real surprise there. What did surprise me were the two vertical single strand heavy guage wire cables, one toward the front corner on each side, apparently running the length of the cabinet. Not sure what to make of that other than extra tensioning to add to the bracing and further solidify the cabinet.

I had expected the woofer to be in a separate chamber separated from the tweeter and midrange speakers but that's not the way it was. Instead, I could easily see down on top of the uppermost woofer below.

I also got a good look at the crossover components mounted toward the rear. I did not try to push any of the sound insulation out of the way to snoop around inside. If I was more curious and knew what I was doing I might have looked around a bit more but I was satisfied with what I saw. All I really wanted was to get this lady back in commission and singing again so I could go back to listening to the music. I have another stereo system I use with the TV that's decent but it's just not the same. I'm spoiled now that I have the two Veritas 2.3i's and I'm thinking of adding a third for the few multi-channel disks I have.