Rifle scope/sight for .223/5.56?

Discussion in 'The Steam Vent' started by mike c, Oct 24, 2012.

  1. mike c Audioholic Warlord

    mike c
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    hey guys ... tried the AR15 forum, but didn't get replies ...

    apparently, buying a scope with a less than 100usd budget is like buying a subwoofer with a 100 buck budget.

    anyway ... i still haven't decided on putting a red dot on the carry handle OR just removing the carry handle and mounting a scope.

    i think i've narrowed it down to these two:

    TruGlo Red Dot

    or

    Nikon Prostaff 3-9x40mm Scope (can't decide between BDC or Nikoplex)

    if i go Red Dot, i'll need a see through carry handle mount.
    if i go Scope, i don't know what scope mounts to get.

    my usage is just 25-30meters

    i know for my usage, a red dot/sight is better, but i kinda don't like a battery operated accessory. (more chances of failing)
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2012
  2. Warpdrv Audioholic Ninja

    Warpdrv
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    What Are your intentions for this rifle ?

    Plinking, self defense, hunting ?

    What model weapon?
  3. mike c Audioholic Warlord

    mike c
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    it's an m16
    20" barrel

    purpose is hitting 4"x4" targets from 25-30 meters away

    right now it still has a carry handle, i think it's removable.
  4. dkane360 Audioholic Field Marshall

    dkane360
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  5. mike c Audioholic Warlord

    mike c
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    nice to hear your personal experience with it, because the rifle forums seem to rip these "china-clones" (ncstar/utg/barska) as junk.
  6. dkane360 Audioholic Field Marshall

    dkane360
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    For what we used it for, it was pretty accurate (can't say the same about my friends :D)

    Honestly, it feels very high quality, and you wouldn't think for a second that it was a "china clone". I haven't had the opportunity to really get it sighted in or see how accurate it actually is, so YMMV.
  7. mike c Audioholic Warlord

    mike c
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  8. ImcLoud Audioholic Ninja

    ImcLoud
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    If you can wait Primary arms is the only sub $200 red dot I would bother with... they should be in stock soon, I know the sight says 2013 but I was told in a month or so...
    https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_s/586.htm
    I have a couple with magnifiers on a set of matching ar15 pistols...
    [​IMG]

    I would make sure you have a removable carry handle, if not you can always change out your upper receiver for around $70 {surplusammo sells them cheap}... But you may want to have someone change it if you are not comfortable with taking the rifle apart...

    but there are a lot of options, obviously the $100 makes it tough, but you may want to save up some money and get something better, Leupold makes a red dot that has an etched reticle so if the batts die you are still shooting straight, I have one on my gas piston ar15 {I want to say the sight was $650, but I have around $6000 into the rifle so you wont put a $100 sight on that, it actually has troy folddown sights also
    [​IMG]

    Now another option is a small pistol redot like the burris speed dot mounted on a dd 45degree mount, so you can just tilt the rifle at an angle and use your dot, or hold straight and use your irons... http://www.opticsplanet.com/daniel-...tyle-rifles-one-o-clock-right-hand-eleve.html http://www.opticsplanet.com/burris-fastfire-w-picatinny-mount-4-moa-dot-mat-fastfire-sight.html
    I have this on a mini14 but not an ar, I do have another ar with a burris, but it also has a really nice leopold scope, this is actually a .204 ruger chambered ar15 so it doesnt shoot the normal 556 rounds, I spent around 7K in this rifle, has a super bright strobe light too, the ultimate coyote/zombie rifle
    [​IMG]

    Well anyway, guns are one of my other passions if you have any questions feel free to ask I own 37 AR15's {insured value around $120K}, I build them from scratch ,machine some of my own parts, and have shot more rounds than most small militias, lol...
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2012
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  9. Steve81 Audioholics 5-O

    Steve81
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    No question that high quality optics are costly. Of course, it would seem reasonable that the quality of optics needed to shoot at 25-30 meters is drastically different than what is needed to shoot accurately out to 250-300 meters or beyond.

    I'm mostly a pistol shooter (all I own in any case), but if I were to offer my opinion, based on personal experience using a scope at such close ranges is a tad boring. My father in law attached an uber-cheap (think like...$20 or so) scope to one of his 22lr bolt action rifles once and we fired at spinning targets between 1" to 3" in diameter at 25 yards. The phrase "fish in a barrel" comes to mind. Of course I was shooting from a prone position, so that certainly didn't hurt either :D
  10. mike c Audioholic Warlord

    mike c
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    holy crap ... 37 AR's

    do you have some sort of annual/biennial fee you have to pay the gov't for the "license" of these guns

    we pay about 120usd every 2 years PER weapon just to legally own the weapon.

    -0-

    yeah i heard about primary arms but saw that all were out of stock

    does PA include the mount? if not, what mount would you recommend? if i were to wait for the PA's ... is it ok to mount them on a see through CH mount?

    -0-

    and as you can see with the nikons ... i've upped my budget to 150 :) not including the mount

    do it once ... do it 'almost' right and all :D

    -0-

    i'm also plan on getting a magpul prs stock if i went with a scope OR mounted a red dot on the CH
    (thought mounting the collapsible stock on a rifle with a 20" barrel would look funny)
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2012
  11. ImcLoud Audioholic Ninja

    ImcLoud
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    No fee, just for silencers you need to pay a tax stamp fee, but thats it...

    Which AR do you own, do you have a model and make? or a picture

    What are you using this for?
    As far as the PRS goes, I have 2 ar's with them, the problem with this stock is weight and speed... Its big and heavy!! And you will not {I know I cant anyway} just jump into it and shoot with any sort of accuracy, I have to settle into the prs, get where I need to be and then shoot, its not a very easy stock where muscle memory is going to pull your eye into the sight and you will shoot it the same everytime from all different positions.... I have one mounted on a 308 ar10 {with a heavy barrel}, and one mounted on an ar15 with a 24" bull barrel {which is like a 1" pipe, barrel alone weighs more than most of my other ar15 complete}.. These are bench guns, and setup for sniper shooting, you pack this gun, lye down, pick your shot and take your time to get it rite... Not off a shooting stick and most likely not shooting from your shoulder... In other words, My 2 rifles that have the prs's on them both have $2000 nightforce scopes because I can reach out past 600yds with out much trouble...

    So for a stock I recommend either the the ctr {if you dont want to spend a lot} or the UBR {if you do want to spend} I own multiple of both in multiple colors on multiple rifles. it really depends on you use.

    a 20" barrel isnt all that long, I would consider the ctr with a burris ar332 you can get them under $300 with the mount, I have spent double that on just mounts Burris AR-332 Prism Sight - 3x Tactical Red Dot Sight FREE S&H 300208. Burris Red Dot Sights. Im not sure what country you are in but some cant own these..

    ebay is also good - this has a sun shade probably only a couple hundred http://www.opticsplanet.com/burris-ar-332-3x-32mm-prism-red-dot-sight.html
  12. mike c Audioholic Warlord

    mike c
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    [​IMG]

    and for scale
    [​IMG]
  13. mike c Audioholic Warlord

    mike c
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    i use this for work, so it's not meant to be fun :)

    i was looking at the PRS/MOE rifle stocks because i wouldn't need to worry about changing the buffer thingies.
  14. ImcLoud Audioholic Ninja

    ImcLoud
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    Thats a good one..
    Ill make it easy for you here is exactly what I would do to that rifle-
    First definetly the ar332 burris, you can find one with the mount for under $300.

    Then Yankee Hill Free Float Quad Rail "Lightweight" Rifle Length YHM-9636 - Surplus Ammo this is easy to install and adds a lot to the rifle.. Plus sheds weight...

    Magpul CTR, dont worry it wont look small... These are awesome, my gt rifles all have them, if its something Im going to count on the save my life it has that stock...

    A.R.M.S. Inc. #41-B Silhouette Folding Front SIght with Integral Gas Block .750" - Surplus Ammo take that front gas block and replace it with one of these, I have one of these, sick design...

    then pick a folding rear sight you like I prefer troy... This way you have iron sights and a dot with 3x mag, this is good for most distances... a lot more than a non magged unit... where the irons are going to come in handy in a pinch..

    Reload & clear stoppages faster - Battery Assist Lever by Tactical Link once you use one of these you will wonder why every ar doesnt have one stock...

    Rock River Winter Trigger Guard AR-15 - Surplus Ammo I use gloves so this is a must..

    Over Sized Rear Take Down Pin Front Take Down PIN1054RB | eBay makes pulling it open in a jam easy and tool free...

    then throw that carry handle away and get a nice sling.. then you will have a machine... Do it little by little but that sale on the rail is a good price though, may want to jump on that..

    After all thats done, 2 stage trigger, bcm gunfighter charging handle, oversized mag release and safety selector, tap the rear detent spring hole and install a 4-40 set screw, and a few other tricks to make her a dependable shooter...

    Keep the gun light, a light gun can do pretty much everything a heavy gun can do but not the opposite way around...
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2012
  15. ImcLoud Audioholic Ninja

    ImcLoud
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    Mike, you need to watch some vids on the ar15, so you can take it apart and replace rebuild repair anything in there... "Buffer thingies" c'mon, lol, shes a COLT... Change the buffer its simple, I could honestly do it in the dark...

    You know how to clean the weapon? Just 3 more steps and the buffer thingies are all converted.. If you arent going collapsible then I would keep the full stock on there, they are very nice, I know not cutting edge but nice shooters... Spend the money else where...
    That $300 for a stock can be spent on a bcm charge handle, with a tactical link bal, the rail system, gas block, and flip sights that would all be useful maybe lifesaving stuff that will make the rifle easier and more efficient to use...
  16. mike c Audioholic Warlord

    mike c
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    i was thinking of getting the magpul rifle hand guard (lighter than what you linked)

    but i can see the catch is that it doesn't (can't) have 12oclock rails.

    i think i'm going with the nikon prostaff scope (169usd) + burris AR PEPR scope mount (90-110usd depending on QD or not)

    question is, i'd like to do the "upgrades" piecemeal, i can't buy everything at the same time, so with the above mount and scope, will the current gas block be in the way?

    pic from amazon with the exact scope and mount i'm thinking of getting
    [​IMG]
  17. ImcLoud Audioholic Ninja

    ImcLoud
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    I hate that $30 magpul handguard, it feels so inferior to even the stock units... I like rails because they feel strong, are free floating {makes a difference}, and can give you the freedom to mount anything anywhere, lights, sights, grips, ect ect ect... That one I linked to you is well made and well worth double that price... You will do good upgrading little by little, but I would mae a plan first, what you want the weapon to do and what it is going to take to do it...

    As far as the scope, you wont go wrong with nikon, I have a few of them and they are great for the money..
    Your current front sight is an A2 tower, and with the pepr mount {which I own, also like the leupold MK2}. The pepr is an offset riser combo mount, this is made to stop you from looking at the back of the a2 tower when adding a scope to your ar, and it does this well, you will still see the tower but not a noticeable amount, definetly not going to co-witness either... I would get the folding I linked you to down the road, they are really nice, and then you can still use your carry handle when you are not scope shooting...

    The scope choice leads me to believe you are doing long range shooting, over 100yards or so? If you are doing any type of close range combat or use it for personal defense, a scope is going to get you killed... I am really good with an AR and for anything close and fast, if I try quick sighting with a scope I get shot in almost ever scenario.... Now a red dot up to 4x and Im good from 5 feet to 100 yards+ easy...
    My 3g competion rifle uses an aimpoint, and I have a few 1st places... This is the most realistic combat type of shooting, its close and fast. Most threats are close not far, if they are over 100yds, you will have time to snap the bipod down and lay down, then you only need one round...
  18. mike c Audioholic Warlord

    mike c
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    actually, was going with the scope for two reasons:

    1) no batteries or electronics to worry about. you can keep it for years and it will do what it did before you kept it. (and also, except for primary arms, nothing seems to be a good value at below 200 bucks)

    2) i like the look :) somehow my long rifle would look funny as a combat rifle (which i'm not gonna use it for)

    my usage is still the same, 30 meter distance target shooting. i keep this rifle in a gun safe in the far end of the house. so this is not a defensive weapon, i have handguns for that, or hopefully that mp5 china clone :)

    so the pepr, will make the scope center clear the front sight (but still in view) without any extra riser?

    yes, i will seriously consider the handguard you recommended due to the rails-rails everywhere. :)
    how do you mount a handguard like this (the stock/magpul handguard splits into two halves)
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2012
  19. ImcLoud Audioholic Ninja

    ImcLoud
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    Mounting the handguard is very easy, takes about 20 minutes. Remove your handgaurd assembly, gas block, muzzle device, and barrel nut, then install the barrel nut that came with the new guard, then install the new guard , reinstall the gasblock then the muzzle break.. Most gunsmiths will only charge $25-35 for the service, but I am a firm believer of knowing my weapons inside and out, especially the ar15 since it was designed to be so simple to assemble and disassemble... I think if you own one you should have the tools to build one..
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  20. itschris Moderator

    itschris
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    Hey Mike, for a stock, go with the CTR. And go with the real CTR nit the MOE version that lacks the friction lock. The PRS ids really heavy and changes the balance of your rifle. Magpul makes a lot of great stuff, but hand guards aren't one of them. A free float rail is a big addition to your rifle and is not something you want to skimp on. You may want to consider planning most of your changes based on what rail you get. Troy and RainierArms have some great rails for very reasonable prices. Of course Daniel Defense and Centurian make fantastic rails too, but you pay a premium. I love my DD rail, but my Troy that came with my M&P also serves me well.

    If you haven't done it before, I'd pay a small amount to a gunsmith to install the rail if it were my only rifle. It's not hard but there are certainly some pitfalls along the way. Removing a gas block is no big deal really, but making sure you get I exactly installed correctly is critical to gas pressures and dunctionality of your rifle. I the holes are even slightly misaligned, you can run into problems with cycling. It happens a lot to first timers...(my hand up). Even now it's something i really pay attention to. I build rifles for fun now, but if it were my only rifle, I'd want some with experience to do the business ends of the rifle.

    Also, for budget priced optics, Primary Arms is gtg. Great people, solid products. If your carry handlei is not removable, you'll have some special considerations, but you should be fine.
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