Remotes: URC MX-980 or Harmony 890

[Markinct]

Guys I'm looking for a universal remote for a 5.1 system (CD, Integra DVD, Rotel Amp, Marantz Receiver, Furman Conditioner, Klipsch speakers, Zen Cable).

I prefer push button rather than touch screen and have narrowed the choice to the Universal Remote MX-980 or the Harmony 890. Which is a better remote? I plan to have a proifessional program it for me, as I am not anywhere near qualified to do so.

I'd like a remote that stays programmed and doesn't require constant reprogramming. Color screen would be nice.

Are there any others you'd recommend in this price range (about $400l MSRP: $599 for the MX 980). Thanks.

Mark

 

[mike_wassell]

I have the Harmony 890. I originally bought it because I thought it would control my RF ceiling fan along with all of my other components. However the RF control on the 890 only works with Z-Wave products. I kept in anyway. At first I was a little frustrated programming it. Previously I owned a Universal Remote MX -*** (It came with a B&K preamp I think in was the MX-700). I really like the Universal Remote – it was my first and I still think it is a very good product. Programming the Harmony was quite a bit different than programming the UR. Harmony is web based and set up differently than UR system. I had to learn some of the tricks through Harmony’s customer service and their customer service seem to be very good. If you know anything about computers and can call customer service when you get stuck you can program the harmony yourself. The only customer service I used for the UR was B&K customer service. The Harmony is a very flexible remote if you know the tricks. In the end I really like the Harmony but I have two complaints about it. It is programmed through the Harmony website which can be very slow at times. Lately it has been ok but it was very slow and occasionally kicked me off when I first bought the remote (July 2008). The other complaint is the size of the buttons on the Harmony. They are small. My fingers are not very big however I have to pay close attention to what I am doing occasionally hit the wrong button. The buttons on the UR were bigger and easier to use however the size of the remote was bigger. If you have any specific questions regarding the 890 just ask and I will do my best to answer them. I am not familiar with the MX-980 but due to my experience with the MX-700 and the 890 I think it would be a tossup and you will probably be happy with either remote. It just depends on what you are used to. With a little patients and enough humility to call customer service if you get stuck you can program the harmony yourself. It stays programmed. The program settings are set up and permanently stored on the harmony web site so in case something happens the program settings can be downloaded from the web site at any time.

Mike

 

[bandphan]

Are you going to use RF? Do you think your macros will be longer than 5 steps? If yes, go with URC

 

[jamie2112]

URC is gonna get my vote every time....

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I would like to give URC a try but this dang, cheap little Harmony(659) works perfectly and is easy to use so I can't justify an upgrade.

 

[OttoMatic]

Are you going to use RF? Do you think your macros will be longer than 5 steps? If yes, go with URC

1. Just to be fair, the 890 does employ RF between the remote and the IR repeater, so you can use it throughout the house. It also implements ZWave natively, so you can also control any ZWave devices that you may have, via RF, throughout the house.

2b. Macros that are used in the Harmony during the changing of "Activities" are NOT limited to five steps. That is, if I select "Watch Dish" and it can do steps like:

- turn on TV
- turn on Dish
- turn on Preamp
- select TV input to "Dish"
- select preamp input to "Dish"
- set the lights to a medium value
- etc.

I suppose there is some type of limit, but I've not run into it, and it's definitely not five.

2b. "Sequences" are limited to five steps. Sequences are macros within an "Activity". I don't use them much, and I've not created one that was more than five steps, so I've not run into that problem. However, it is a limitation that should be noted. It's possible that Harmony would change this via software/firmware in the future.

I have been using a Harmony 890 for almost three years, and I have not had any problems. My only request at this time is that I would like to include ZWave devices as "Devices" within an "Activity".

I don't have any experience with the URC devices, but I'm sure they work well.

 

[highfigh]

1. Just to be fair, the 890 does employ RF between the remote and the IR repeater, so you can use it throughout the house. It also implements ZWave natively, so you can also control any ZWave devices that you may have, via RF, throughout the house.

2b. Macros that are used in the Harmony during the changing of "Activities" are NOT limited to five steps. That is, if I select "Watch Dish" and it can do steps like:

- turn on TV
- turn on Dish
- turn on Preamp
- select TV input to "Dish"
- select preamp input to "Dish"
- set the lights to a medium value
- etc.

I suppose there is some type of limit, but I've not run into it, and it's definitely not five.

2b. "Sequences" are limited to five steps. Sequences are macros within an "Activity". I don't use them much, and I've not created one that was more than five steps, so I've not run into that problem. However, it is a limitation that should be noted. It's possible that Harmony would change this via software/firmware in the future.

I have been using a Harmony 890 for almost three years, and I have not had any problems. My only request at this time is that I would like to include ZWave devices as "Devices" within an "Activity".

I don't have any experience with the URC devices, but I'm sure they work well.

Harmony doesn't call them 'macros', they call adding steps like delays and anything else needed after turn-on that might have been a problem before "adding a 'Sequence'" and it took some of us a long time of harping about it to get them to put it back on. They had macros on their first remotes, before Logitech bought them and they started releasing things before they were ready, like the 1000. The 890 has buttons that aren't illuminated and the print is awfully small. It's very long and some buttons are hard to get to and the back isn't painted with the vinyl to make it easier to grip. It does work well, though.

That thing was a freakin' nightmare of locking up, delay issues and other hiccups. Then, last August, they decided to remove the possibility of operating Z Wave lighting, but they didn't tell the dealers. They had a "Dealer Partnership" where we could call a different number for faster and more involved technical service but even we weren't contacted. They enabled the slide show without telling anyone and you can't just disable it- you have to load a blank image to get it to go black. Also, the RF extender had a hardwired power cord, which made updates a PITA.

Having said that, now that the updates have been done and even when it was acting like a two year old child and as much trouble as I had with that model, it does some really cool things that they told me wouldn't work. Button mapping is easy (easier than before), you can add screens of control functions for operating devices within activities and it now works really well. Unfortunately, two-way operation isn't possible with it.

They URC remotes are a completely different animal and require a completely different mindset when programming. Some things are more intuitive and easier to do, from the user's standpoint. Almost all buttons are backlit and easier to read.

 

[OttoMatic]

Then, last August, they decided to remove the possibility of operating Z Wave lighting...

Please elaborate. Does this mean that current 890s will lose ZWave capability through a firmware update? Does this mean that future 890s won't have it installed, but current ones will still work? Just not sure exactly what you mean.

Also, the RF extender had a hardwired power cord, which made updates a PITA.

Won't any RF adapter require a source of power? I guess they could offer batteries as an option, but I don't mind the power cord. Or are you talking about the need to plug the RF adapter into a USB for update? Yeah, I suppose they could have done the RF adapter's update through the remote using RF (with an option to connect to USB in the event of failure). That would have been nice.

 

[highfigh]

Please elaborate. Does this mean that current 890s will lose ZWave capability through a firmware update? Does this mean that future 890s won't have it installed, but current ones will still work? Just not sure exactly what you mean.



Won't any RF adapter require a source of power? I guess they could offer batteries as an option, but I don't mind the power cord. Or are you talking about the need to plug the RF adapter into a USB for update? Yeah, I suppose they could have done the RF adapter's update through the remote using RF (with an option to connect to USB in the event of failure). That would have been nice.

The 1000 is the only one to lose Z Wave.

The issue with a hardwired RF extender is that when you have the equipment remotely located and the display/speakers in another place, there's a lot of running around to do an update, especially if the computer used is a desktop. In a two story house. With the bulk of the equipment in the basement. Ask me why I'm posting this. The URC MRF extenders have a removable cord.

I haven't sold a Harmony lately but they had planned to use a power cable that was removable but they needed to sell through all of the hardwired ones, first. I only mentioned it because as an integrator, all of this cost me a lot of money. I do like the Harmony remotes and started selling them in '04. There are things I like about the URC more, but that has more to do with which end of the business I'm on. I can program a URC remote without internet service and unless I save the file to my laptop, I can't do that with a Harmony.

 

[OttoMatic]

Thans for the clarifications. I would imagine that relatively few people use the ZWave capability, so it's no surprise that it disappeared on the 1000. Yeah, a removable power cord would be nice, and I'm doing updates all in one room with a laptop!

 

[highfigh]

Thans for the clarifications. I would imagine that relatively few people use the ZWave capability, so it's no surprise that it disappeared on the 1000. Yeah, a removable power cord would be nice, and I'm doing updates all in one room with a laptop!

Actually, the fact that so much is Z Wave compatible is the reason URC added it to their remotes. The problem has to do with the OS of the remote, which is Windows (big surprise, eh?).

In the system that I had the problems, I located an ethernet cable in the basement at the equipment rack, so I would be able to carry the remote(s) downstairs, update, then test everything but the Plasma, DVD, ReQuest Server and Laserdisc, none of which usually needed updates to their functionality. It was almost always the receiver, cable boxes, B&K preamp for the distributed audio and Mac MC300 turn on (also for the DA) that needed tweaking. The RF extenders are on the wall over the rack and the range was still good all over the back yard, where they have a pair of speakers.