Receiver with a processor loop

Discussion in 'Amps, Pre-Pros & Receivers' started by 3earsaudio, Dec 4, 2012.

  1. 3earsaudio Audiophyte

    3earsaudio
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    Does anyone know of a reciever that allows an EQ/compressor to be inserted in the center channel? It can be done if using a seperate amp feedining off center channel audio out but I'd like to use the receiver's internal center channel amp. Thanks in advance.
  2. markw Audioholic Overlord

    markw
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    Not that I've ever heard of. Good luck.
  3. j_garcia Audioholic Jedi

    j_garcia
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    The last one that I saw with that capability was the Marantz SR9300, and that is quite a few years old. Not sure about newer models.
  4. avengineer Banned

    avengineer
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    EPL's have gone the way of the Dodo. You might find a record out/record monitor function that will accomplish it in at least two channels, though. Those are still around.
  5. markw Audioholic Overlord

    markw
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    I've only seen these on two channel units, though, ...not on AVR's.
  6. j_garcia Audioholic Jedi

    j_garcia
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    Yep. My PM7200 has a main out/in on the back for this. It also lets me bypass the pre section to use the 7200 as an amp, or use the pre section with a separate amp.
  7. avengineer Banned

    avengineer
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    They actually do show up on some AVRs. Those that have a separate "record out" selector, which is sometimes a shift-function of the main source selector, provides an isolated and buffered output of a source, which can then be processed and returned to an aux input chosen on the main selector. The record out sometimes doubles as the 'zone 2' selector, but has the same basic function, minus volume control. Not quite like the old EPL, but would work just as well.

    Can't quite imagine what you'd use as a processor these days though.
  8. jcl Senior Audioholic

    jcl
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    Yes, but the OP specified for the center channel. That indicates something different than a tape monitor loop or two channel pre-out - main-in loop.
    jcl,
  9. j_garcia Audioholic Jedi

    j_garcia
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    Yep. The OP is looking for something rather specific and it will require an AVR with this option for either all channels or at the very least the front three. I don't recall ever seeing one that only had the front three though.
  10. markw Audioholic Overlord

    markw
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    Think about this for a moment...

    Question: How do you select what source is sent to the "record out" lacks?

    Answer: Whatever the input selector is set to.

    Note the bolded.

    Question: If you have to select the "Aux" input on the receiver, what signal is sent to the "record out" jacks?

    Answer: The source pugged into the "Aux" jacks.

    End result: Nothing.

    You are thinking of a "tape monitor loop" which is a totally different critter.
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  11. 3earsaudio Audiophyte

    3earsaudio
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    I have a hearing deficit from years of negligent loud music listening and I use an EQ/compressor to make dialog more intelligible. Some of the problems lie with the absolutely horrendous authoring and sound mixing for dialog that's released these days. Using a separate amp for center channel and inserting an EQ between the center channel out and the amp works but for the level matching problem. I've been looking to use an AVR for simplicity but I find that I would always have to bypass the internal center channel amp.
  12. j_garcia Audioholic Jedi

    j_garcia
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    What level matching problem? I have a Marantz 8300 and it can adjust levels for all of the preamp outputs, so you would simply calibrate as normal with the EQ inline.
  13. 3earsaudio Audiophyte

    3earsaudio
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    The EQ/Compressor needs a fixed level input signal to work properly. If the input signal to the EQ/Compressor is variable (as when I work the volume control on the AVR), the rate of compression and limit also changes. That's what I get if the EQ is inserted post-volume control from the AVR center channel out to the center channel power amp. I'm looking for an AVR that allows me to insert the EQ/Processor BEFORE the volume control as in a 2 channel tape monitor loop or record out. But using the record-out on the AVR, although its a fixed level signal, gives me a 2 channel mix of the audio that includes dialogue plus the content of all the other channels over the center channel speaker.
  14. avengineer Banned

    avengineer
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    So what you need is a pre-pro or AVR with preamp outs, and another with discrete analog ins. You preset the first pre-pro for your basic compressor input level, jumper all the other outs straight to the ins on the second AVR, except for the center which goes through the compressor. Go calibrate your compressor for center dialog. Then you can use the volume control on the second AVR to control system volume.

    How's that for a kludge work-around?

    Look, there's no easy way to do this. But have you tried any of the AVRs with a "Midnight" mode or something like Audyssey Dynamic Volume? Dynamic Volume increases compression on low level material, particularly the center. But you'll have to fool it after calibration, because it's going to set it's compression levels based on known in-room SPL. If you found an AVR or pre-pro with Dynamic Volume, after calibration you can raise the power amp gains and lower the pre-pro volume setting, thus fooling Dynamic Volume into thinking you're at a lower SPL than you really are. The result would be higher amounts of dynamic compression at higher specific SPLs. Might work, and save you the trouble a separate compressor, though you're into the world of separate power amps just to deal with the gain-fooling process.

    Just an idea.

    You can also solve your problem with a disc player that has 5.1 channels of analog out, though that's getting more rare and expensive, and doesn't address cable and satellite boxes.

    I do feel your pain, though.
  15. 3earsaudio Audiophyte

    3earsaudio
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    I've tried this on a Sunfire without Audyssey and tried the compression mode on the BD player. Problem is: the authoring of DVDs is horrendous and some of them litterally don't contain much voice content below 1K. On unexagerated conversation between actors, many times all I hear is unarticulated whisper and sibilence. I need the EQ pumped up below 1k to make sense of words.

    But you led me to a possible solution. My BD player has fixed discrete 5.1 analogue audio outs. If when I run HDMI to the receiver the player still outputs discrete analog center channel, I can run this to a reciever but that receiver has to allow me to select or substitute analogue center channel instead of the HDMI center. Chances of finding something like that are nil. The other solution is to forget HDMI into the receiver and run 5.1 analogue all the way.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  16. M Code Full Audioholic

    M Code
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    If the processor includes Dolby decoding..
    Dolby will not certify a unit with either a On/Out loop or Tape Monitor, as it corrupts the levels causing tracking problems..


    Just my $0.02... ;)
  17. j_garcia Audioholic Jedi

    j_garcia
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    I think you are out of luck and we are back at the beginning - what you are asking for I have never heard of. Even the Marantz SR9300 I mentioned is after the volume control.

    When I say they are adjustable on mine, they are adjustable for speaker level trim, meaning they are for calibration purposes. Those are still, however, after the volume control also.

    ^This
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012

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