Receiver vs. preamp/amp combo

Discussion in 'Amps, Pre-Pros & Receivers' started by mrpotto, Jan 2, 2007.

  1. mrpotto Enthusiast

    mrpotto
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    Hi there,
    I'm an audiofile noob looking to upgrade my sound system to go with newly purchased B & W 703s. The system will be used for both music listening and as part of a home theater. Would I better off with something like a Rotel RC1070 (preamp) and a RB1080 (200wpc amplifier) vs. a decent integrated receiver?
    Looking to spend around $1,000. Let me know if you need more info to provide a better answer.

    Thanks, Chris
  2. Seth=L Audioholic Overlord

    Seth=L
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    Outlaw 1070 receiver, it's $799 direct from Outlaw.com

    It is rated at 65 watts x7 rms 20hz-20khz all channels driven. This means it will pack a punch. Unlike receivers that are rated like this- 100 watts x 7 20hz-20khz. This usually means that it can only deliver that much power to one channel at a time, maybe two channels. A receiver with this spec will be less powerful than the Outlaw.
  3. zumbo Audioholic Spartan

    zumbo
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    BS. Both mean the same thing. The Outlaw will deliver 65W x 2. The other will deliver 100W x 2(Denon,Yamaha,NAD,& etc.). Every channel extra will split the power.

    Outlaw claims "the 1070 is more powerful than most so-called 100-watt receivers!" Most is the key word. It doesn't say all.

    If it is more powerful than other receivers rated @100W, they should rate it above 100W. The best thing to do, is not buy "most" receivers rated @100W x7.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2007
  4. zumbo Audioholic Spartan

    zumbo
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    If you can get a Rotel 1070 and 1080 for 1k, you better jump. The 1080 alone is 1k.

    There is not a receiver made that can compete with that Rotel combo.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2007
  5. jcPanny Audioholic Ninja

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  6. mrpotto Enthusiast

    mrpotto
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    Ok thanks for the replies

    Does anyone's answer change if I say that I'll be buying a Pansonic 50' plasma. Will all these choices including the rotel preamp/amp combo be HDMI compatible?

    Thanks again.

    Chris
  7. highfihoney Audioholic Samurai

    highfihoney
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    What your long range plans for the system are should dictate what you buy now,you mentioned the 703's as being part of a future home theater set up,will you be adding more speakers in the future,will you want home theater features like center channel & surround,you wont get these options with the rotel unless you plan on adding an external processor in the future,will you be running a subwoofer or plan to run a powered sub in the future.

    Without knowing more about your plans for the system any recomendation at this point would have to be made on personal preference & not whats best for your rig & budget.
  8. emorphien Audioholic General

    emorphien
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    $1300 each or 1300 for the pair?

    nevermind, for the pair. Nice! I'd love to upgrade to something like that down the road.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2007
  9. mrpotto Enthusiast

    mrpotto
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    Current system and future plans

    I have the B & Ws. Right now I have an older Denon 5.1 receiver (1603 I think) with a cheap center channel, cheap wub-woofer and cheap rear energy speakers. At some point, I'll upgrade the other speakers but right now I'm focusing on the receiver or pre amp/amp combo. The more I read, the more it seems to make sense to go with an integrated amp (don't need a radio).
  10. Seth=L Audioholic Overlord

    Seth=L
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    Uh, no, not BS.

    Lets look at some interesting facts. I chose an Onkyo TX-SR804 to compare with the Outlaw 1070. The Onkyo is rated at 105 watts x 7 rms.

    a) Onkyo draws 900 watts where as the Outlaw draws 1000 watts.

    b) Weight isn't an end all, but the Outlaw has around 10 lbs. on the Onkyo (Outlaw weighs 40 lbs. Onkyo has 29.5 lbs.)

    c) The Outlaw costs less by $350.

    d) The only thing the Onkyo has the Outlaw doesn't is HDMI, Outlaw has DVI instead.

    I see no error in my logic here.

    And I seriously doubt the Outlaw can only output 65 watts x 2 rms.
  11. emorphien Audioholic General

    emorphien
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    Sounds like there's a good chance the Outlaw can deliver. 65 * 7 channels is 455. If it is rated to draw a kilowatt, then that leaves overhead above and beyond just losses due to efficiencies of the amplifier (gotta power the other components as well). Seems reasonable to think it may be pulling off 65*7.

    The onkyo on the other hand is 105*7 = 735. My experience with Onkyos is that its going to sound a bit lean, which again seems a pretty reasonable assumption based on power specs.

    Interestingly enough my 4 year old Harman Kardon is rated for 55*5 or 65*2 and is rated for a maximum consumption of about 550 watts. Twice the 5 channel specced output.
  12. Seth=L Audioholic Overlord

    Seth=L
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    Those older H/Ks are pretty sweet, dynamic headroom is important for home theater.:D
  13. Seth=L Audioholic Overlord

    Seth=L
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    Just looked at a Yamaha receiver from Best Buy the HTR-6090, power consumption, ....500 watts!!!!!! :eek: Strangely enough the Yamaha is capable of 120 watts x 7.....huh?

    Price: $999.99 :rolleyes:
  14. dd24skater Enthusiast

    dd24skater
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    The B&W's want power, alot of power. Spend as much as you can on a amp, get a cheap reciever to get you through, maybe used, a couple of years old, and plan on replacing it in a year or two.

    I just bought a rotel 1090 for my 604's and I'm so happy!
  15. no. 5 Audioholic Field Marshall

    no. 5
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    H/K and Outlaw rate there amplifiers based on an all channels driven test, most other manufactures go with a two channels driven test.

    as far as the yamaha HTR-6090, in a ACD test its big brother, the RX-V2600 (which also draws 500 watts, not shure how meny parts thay share), which is rated at 130 WPC will deliver 119 WPC.
  16. zumbo Audioholic Spartan

    zumbo
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    I see no proof here. I am also not an Onkyo fan.

    In 2-channel mode, if it states 65W "true power", then it's 65W.
  17. dd24skater Enthusiast

    dd24skater
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    I would pass on the Outlaw, my brother just bought the preamp and I wasn't impressed
  18. zumbo Audioholic Spartan

    zumbo
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    I do not doubt the Outlaw may be able to produce 65W x 7 after a little research. However, the price puts it in line with others rated @ 100W or more. I would have a Denon, Yamaha, NAD, or etc. first. So, big deal. It's 65W x 7. Can't touch the Rotel 200W. No comparison.
  19. zumbo Audioholic Spartan

    zumbo
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    The statements below are from this link: http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/amplifiers/ACDTEST5.php

    Let’s take the following Scenario when comparing two similarly priced receivers.



    Receiver #1: rated at 110wpc (# of channels driven not specified, but FTC mandates it must apply to at least two channels)



    Receiver #2: rated at 70wpc ACD



    If we bench test both receivers with just two channels driven, we more often than not find that Receiver #1 was able to comfortably exceed its rating into 8 ohms and deliver respectable power delivery into 4 ohms (usually higher than the 8 ohm rating). Receiver #2 will usually exceed its 8 ohm rating but typically at a smaller margin than receiver #1 and, more often than not, maintains a similar power rating for 8 and 4 ohm loads. Of course an ideal amplifier should act like a constant voltage source and double power delivery when speaker impedance is halved. Very few receivers, and only the better separates amps, have a robust enough amp topologies and correspondingly robust power supplies to achieve such a feat.



    So, in reality, Receiver #1 has the potential to deliver more power than Receiver #2, especially into 4 ohm loads, when driving one or up to three channels simultaneously with a correlated audio source. But because of the thermal limitations of the budget sized receiver, which aims at designing a dynamic amplifier over one that can provide sustained power into all channels simultaneously, it has to limit the power delivery when the amplifier is taxed with a correlated audio source to more than three channels. During loud transients Receiver #1 will likely be able to deliver cleaner output because it has more available headroom than Receiver #2.



    On the other hand, the ACD test can very easily boast over inflated power figures for amplifiers that don’t employ this form of current limiting. This is true in particular when the audio publications test in the 3 conditions we previously mentioned — instantaneous 1kHz power vs THD test, VARIAC regulated line, and bypassing the internal amplifier fuses. Thus, the consumer is misled into believing the inflated power measurements are continuous and achievable in typical household installations.



    Since this test isn’t representative of music or movie program material, and it is usually conducted in conditions not representative of normal product usage, its validity is questionable at best. It is certainly not a clear delineation of true amplifier performance in a real world environment.
  20. mike c Audioholic Warlord

    mike c
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    indeed, the 1070,1080 combo is around 1500 here ... if its 1k over there, jump all over it.

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