Question on Receivers and "Upscaling"

[Brother_Darius]

I finally got the last piece for my new home theater and started setting it all up last night. However after getting it going and check the picture I'm a little concerned with the picture quality. Now the HD channels from my cable company look great but the 'normal channels' look even worse on the HDTV than then did on the regular TV.

I spoke with the cable company and they helped me set up the TV to receive the proper signal's. The cable company broadcasts in 1080i and 480i. I doubt it's the TV itself but in how's it's been set up. The TV itself is a P50-G10 and was rated by CNET as a Top 5 TV in picture quality.

As I said with the help of the cable company I was able to set the TV to the proper signal reception, also set it to the proper wide screen setting, but still the 480i channels look crappy. One possible solution I thought (but not sure it would work) would entail getting a different AV Receiver than I currently have..

I bought the SONY DH800 because I figured it would do what I wanted and I wouldn't have to pay for any extra's I wouldn't need. Everything is going to be HDMI only (Cable/Blu-ray) so I'll just run everying into the reciever and then into the TV. The DH800 doesn't "upscale" and I didn't see the need for it.

Well I'm wondering if I did get a receiver that was rated as doing upscaling to 1080p, and did it well (Denon AVR-790) if I could use that to "upscale" the 480i cable signal ???

I understand that no matter what anyone does you can't turn a non HD signal into HD. All I want to do is to get the 480i signal channels to look as ok as they do on a normal TV.

I currently run HDMI from my cable box straight to the TV. So if I ran the cable box to the upscaling receiver, then from the receiver to the TV would that improve the picture?

If yes, is it still just a matter of degrees pf crappyness? Not as crappy as the current configuration, but still crappier than if you just ran a normal signal into a 25" analog ????

 

[njedpx3]

Get Satellite or Fiber Optics instead of Cable

I finally got the last piece for my new home theater and started setting it all up last night. However after getting it going and check the picture I'm a little concerned with the picture quality. Now the HD channels from my cable company look great but the 'normal channels' look even worse on the HDTV than then did on the regular TV.

I spoke with the cable company and they helped me set up the TV to receive the proper signal's. The cable company broadcasts in 1080i and 480i. I doubt it's the TV itself but in how's it's been set up. The TV itself is a P50-G10 and was rated by CNET as a Top 5 TV in picture quality.

As I said with the help of the cable company I was able to set the TV to the proper signal reception, also set it to the proper wide screen setting, but still the 480i channels look crappy. One possible solution I thought (but not sure it would work) would entail getting a different AV Receiver than I currently have..

I bought the SONY DH800 because I figured it would do what I wanted and I wouldn't have to pay for any extra's I wouldn't need. Everything is going to be HDMI only (Cable/Blu-ray) so I'll just run everying into the reciever and then into the TV. The DH800 doesn't "upscale" and I didn't see the need for it.

Well I'm wondering if I did get a receiver that was rated as doing upscaling to 1080p, and did it well (Denon AVR-790) if I could use that to "upscale" the 480i cable signal ???

I understand that no matter what anyone does you can't turn a non HD signal into HD. All I want to do is to get the 480i signal channels to look as ok as they do on a normal TV.

I currently run HDMI from my cable box straight to the TV. So if I ran the cable box to the upscaling receiver, then from the receiver to the TV would that improve the picture?

If yes, is it still just a matter of degrees pf crappyness? Not as crappy as the current configuration, but still crappier than if you just ran a normal signal into a 25" analog ????

Can you switch to satellite ( Dish Network or DirecTV) or Fiber Optics (AT&T uVerse) ? You would get much better PQ even on standard channels.

Upconversion can reformat for higher resolution signal, but if the source is crappy you just get higher resolution crappy and not really much improvement in PQ.

Just MHO.

Peace and Good Sound and PQ to All,

Forest Man,

P.S. - I made the switch to satellite years ago and I am very pleased with PQ on both SD and HD.

 

[jostenmeat]

I finally got the last piece for my new home theater and started setting it all up last night. However after getting it going and check the picture I'm a little concerned with the picture quality. Now the HD channels from my cable company look great but the 'normal channels' look even worse on the HDTV than then did on the regular TV.

I spoke with the cable company and they helped me set up the TV to receive the proper signal's. The cable company broadcasts in 1080i and 480i. I doubt it's the TV itself but in how's it's been set up. The TV itself is a P50-G10 and was rated by CNET as a Top 5 TV in picture quality.

As I said with the help of the cable company I was able to set the TV to the proper signal reception, also set it to the proper wide screen setting, but still the 480i channels look crappy. One possible solution I thought (but not sure it would work) would entail getting a different AV Receiver than I currently have..

I bought the SONY DH800 because I figured it would do what I wanted and I wouldn't have to pay for any extra's I wouldn't need. Everything is going to be HDMI only (Cable/Blu-ray) so I'll just run everying into the reciever and then into the TV. The DH800 doesn't "upscale" and I didn't see the need for it.

Well I'm wondering if I did get a receiver that was rated as doing upscaling to 1080p, and did it well (Denon AVR-790) if I could use that to "upscale" the 480i cable signal ???

I understand that no matter what anyone does you can't turn a non HD signal into HD. All I want to do is to get the 480i signal channels to look as ok as they do on a normal TV.

I currently run HDMI from my cable box straight to the TV. So if I ran the cable box to the upscaling receiver, then from the receiver to the TV would that improve the picture?

If yes, is it still just a matter of degrees pf crappyness? Not as crappy as the current configuration, but still crappier than if you just ran a normal signal into a 25" analog ????

Actually, SD just looks better on older TVs. Different cable companies look better than others, but yes I know there typically is no choice with that.

I do not expect any entry or mid level receiver to do much better than your G10. At the bare minimum, with a receiver, would I aim for Anchor Bay. Realta if you can afford it, but most likely not.

You ought to also consider an outboard video processor. Check out the DVDO Edge for example at an affordable price.

 

[Brother_Darius]

Can you switch to satellite ( Dish Network or DirecTV) or Fiber Optics (AT&T uVerse) ? You would get much better PQ even on standard channels.

Upconversion can reformat for higher resolution signal, but if the source is crappy you just get higher resolution crappy and not really much improvement in PQ.


P.S. - I made the switch to satellite years ago and I am very pleased with PQ on both SD and HD.

I guess I can switch to satellite if that's my only option and I decide a can't stand the crappy SD channels. It's been a bit of a surprise to me how one purchase (HDTV) has lead to so many snowballing other ones (New Cabnet, Blu-ray, Receiver, Speaker, etc...)

Actually, SD just looks better on older TVs. Different cable companies look better than others, but yes I know there typically is no choice with that.

I do not expect any entry or mid level receiver to do much better than your G10. At the bare minimum, with a receiver, would I aim for Anchor Bay. Realta if you can afford it, but most likely not.

You ought to also consider an outboard video processor. Check out the DVDO Edge for example at an affordable price.

Outboard Video Processor? Ok, now you've completely lost this noob....

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Hey Bd,
This is link to the mysterious outboard video processor josten meant:
http://www.anchorbaytech.com/dvdo_edge/
Its basically fancy (read my lips - VERY EXPENSIVE) video upscaller - makes your DVD/Analog sources/SD Tv look better than your cable company box can.

Seriously thou, Denon AVR-790 does include pretty good Anchor Bay VRS video processor, but step up AVR-890 includes newer and better Anchor Bay ABT-2010 chip.
http://www.audioholics.com/news/trade-show-coverage/2007-consumer-electronics-show-ces/abt2010-sd-hd-video-processor

I can guarantee the former or latter will make your SD look better, but how much better?

Probably not drastic enough for you... However with Denon's you'll also get better audio components (over sony) and more real AMP power...

For best TV PQ FIOS is the way to go, then/if available in your area..

 

[jostenmeat]

Hey Bd,
This is link to the mysterious outboard video processor josten meant:
http://www.anchorbaytech.com/dvdo_edge/
Its basically fancy (read my lips - VERY EXPENSIVE) video upscaller - makes your DVD/Analog sources/SD Tv look better than your cable company box can.

Seriously thou, Denon AVR-790 does include pretty good Anchor Bay VRS video processor, but step up AVR-890 includes newer and better Anchor Bay ABT-2010 chip.
http://www.audioholics.com/news/trade-show-coverage/2007-consumer-electronics-show-ces/abt2010-sd-hd-video-processor

The Denon and DVDO will be similar in price (not including certain DVDO sales like with the AVS powerbuy earlier this year). Then consider that the DVDO will have much more adjustments than the Denon, in all likelihood.

If his old receiver was just bought, and can be returned for full refund, yes I agree try a receiver instead, even if with less pic controls. The DVDO can apply DNR and EE. Things that I hate in my BD world, but they may help out with horrible SD, to scrub stuff out.

 

[autodevin]

Denon

I a gree with Admin, and you;ll definitely love the audio versatility and sound quality of the Denon.

Enjoy!

 

[nibhaz]

Brother_Darius

What kind of cable box do you have? Do you know if you cable box is scaling the 480i signal to 1080i before sending the signal to your TV via HDMI?

Try this: While watching an SD channel press the INFO ( i ) button on your G10’s remote. If it says anything other than 480i at the top of your screen, your cable box is scaling the signal and not your G10, which could probably do a better job.

Report back and depending on the responses to my questions, I might be able to suggestion some service menu adjustments for you cable box that might help.

 

[Adam]

My buddy recently bought a Pioneer Elite VSX-21. I've never tried the video upscaling on my VSX-23, but my friend was extremely happy with how well the VSX-21 improved the image quality. He said that it even made his PC signal look better (which is a 1080p HDMI feed, I think), so there was more to it than just upscaling. He and his wife still watch VCR tapes (which I think are around 240i) from time to time, and IIRC, he even said that it made them look a lot better.

So, I'd say that running the cable signal through a capable receiver might certainly improve it to the point that your happy.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

The Denon and DVDO will be similar in price (not including certain DVDO sales like with the AVS powerbuy earlier this year). Then consider that the DVDO will have much more adjustments than the Denon, in all likelihood.

If his old receiver was just bought, and can be returned for full refund, yes I agree try a receiver instead, even if with less pic controls. The DVDO can apply DNR and EE. Things that I hate in my BD world, but they may help out with horrible SD, to scrub stuff out.

True, while DVDO and named above above Denon AVR are similar in price, DVDO is doing only one thing (and some people would argue better then integrated inside denon) Denon AVR is some much more functionality. I'd personally love to handle all my audio and video switching at single unit - it makes the whole setup so much easier to build around and control.

Plus, if he can return for refund or even ebay his sony avr - denon's avr would be actually cheaper solution...