Problems with DTS and optical connection.

F

flyty55

Enthusiast
I'm needing some help from you knowledgeable forum members.

I had a blu ray player connected to my older Harmon Kardon AVR140 receiver with a digital coax cable. (The only output it had other than the HDMI cable). All was working well. It automatically detected DTS or Dolby Digital 5.1.

My new blu ray player has only an optical output connection but I cannot get it to play in DTS or DD 5.1. I do get sound but not in DTS or DD 5.1. I get Dolby Movie, Music, stereo etc. I think almost like an analog signal.
-I have tried plugging into either "opt 1" or "opt 2" inputs at the back and setting the receiver so it knows proper input. Eg: Press input DVD or Vid 1,2 whatever, input on the remote you need to then set that input to opt 1, opt 2, coax 1, coax 2, analog, etc. Whatever it's hooked to.
-The receiver is set to "default surround mode=on".
-blu ray player is set to bitstream (dts re-encode)
-tried different optical cables.

I'm totally baffled. Why it works with coax but not optical. I cannot just figure out what I'm doing wrong. Hope my explanation isn't too hard to decipher.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Why not just use the coax cable? Unless you experience any issues there shouldn't be any difference for short cable runs.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
What is your BD player? BD players are no longer required to send multichannel over coax and optical connections. They must be able to decode DTS or Dolby Digital, but they are only required now to send it as 2.0. Also discs are now allowed to have a flag, and new players must detect the flag, to only send 2.0 over any connection other than HDMI.

I have hunch you have a player on the bleeding edge that conforms to the standards drawn up 2013.

The fact is that any AV device without HDMI, HDCP certified inputs is becoming increasingly useless.

What happened to your old player? I have a feeling your solution is an older player, or a new receiver.
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Like TLS asked, what is the model number of your new blu-ray player? I'll be happy to look up the manual and see it I can help you out. Unlike TLS, I doubt that your blu-ray player is incapable of outputting surround sound over optical. It's likely just a menu setting. Also, be sure that you're selecting the 5.1 audio track on your discs.

Why not just use the coax cable?
Because the new blu-ray player doesn't have that option. :)
 
F

flyty55

Enthusiast
The player that I want to use is a Samsung BDP 1600. Not real new but has a front panel display. The one I'm using now doesn't.

It's likely just a menu setting. Also, be sure that you're selecting the 5.1 audio track on your discs. :)
That's what I'm hoping that it's a menu setting but what? I have selected the right sound option on the disc.

The player with the coax output is a Samsung BD-F5100. It's a newer player than the BDP 1600. It's about 2 years old. The BDP 1600 is the one I would like to use but only has optical output. I think it's about 5 or 6 years old. Don't remember.
 
Last edited:
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
The player that I want to use is a Samsung BDP 1600. Not real new but has a front panel display. The one I'm using now doesn't.



That's what I'm hoping that it's a menu setting but what? I have selected the right sound option on the disc.

The player with the coax output is a Samsung BD-F5100. It's a newer player than the BDP 1600. It's about 2 years old. The BDP 1600 is the one I would like to use but only has optical output. I think it's about 5 or 6 years old. Don't remember.
Samsung do not provide a legible download of the user manual. I can't read it.

However that player is junk, total pure and simple. It has far more negative reviews than positive, and there is not a malfunction it does not seem to be known for. The overwhelming odds are the player is defective. Recycle it and get a new one.
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Samsung do not provide a legible download of the user manual. I can't read it.
Then you didn't look at the right manual, because Samsung has a very clear PDF copy on their website.

To the original question - are you selecting a Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD track? If so, that would explain why you are getting two-channel audio. From the user manual on page 38:
When the player outputs HD audio bitstream(Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio) from the Optical jack to an HDMI 1.3 receiver, only 2 channel PCM audio will be heard.
I'd say make sure that you are selecting the Dolby Digital or DTS track.

Also, have you tried the "Bitstream (Audiophile)" selection versus the "Bitstream (Re-encode)" selection? Inclusion of the secondary audio track can mess things up sometimes.
 
F

flyty55

Enthusiast
Then you didn't look at the right manual, because Samsung has a very clear PDF copy on their website.

To the original question - are you selecting a Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD track? If so, that would explain why you are getting two-channel audio. From the user manual on page 38:

I'd say make sure that you are selecting the Dolby Digital or DTS track.

Also, have you tried the "Bitstream (Audiophile)" selection versus the "Bitstream (Re-encode)" selection? Inclusion of the secondary audio track can mess things up sometimes.
I'm starting to think it's the blu ray player also. I have tried the bitstream audiophile setting. Nothing.

I have a Pink Floyd Pulse DVD. It has an option for DD 5.1 surround sound. My receiver doesn't convert it to that either.

I think I'm going to try a different player and see what happens. I can't think of any more options. Or stick with my player with the coax and use it until it craps out. I'm getting a bald spot where I'm scratching my head.

Thanks
 
J

JMJVK

Audioholic
I have made real world test. Here's one way to set it so it should work, failing this, you may have a bad TOSLink. (If it has a kink, or has previously been kinked, it may be defective).

Make sure if your using Coax 1 for a device, to use Optical 2, just to make sure they aren't a shared ressource or conflict with each other or something. (Just to be safe, I'm not familiar with your AVR's quirks...)

Samsung BDP-1600 and Harman Kardon AVR144.

Component video + TOSLink



Go into Samsung's setup menu.

Set Digital Output to "Bitstream" or "Bitstream audiophile"
Disable PCM downsampling
keep Dynamic compression On
Select surround compatible downmixing mode

 
J

JMJVK

Audioholic
I have a Pink Floyd Pulse DVD. It has an option for DD 5.1 surround sound. My receiver doesn't convert it to that either.

Just tried it here. Pulse Double DVD concert. DD 5.1 works fine. Check your settings, if it won't work, I'll go and check the AVR's settings from the OSD.

I'd rather not do that for now, and let you check your settings first though... Doing so for me requires bringing in another TV in that room with a composite video input, (the only option for that particular AVR's OSD to display on screen.)
 
F

flyty55

Enthusiast
I have made real world test. Here's one way to set it so it should work, failing this, you may have a bad TOSLink. (If it has a kink, or has previously been kinked, it may be defective).

Make sure if your using Coax 1 for a device, to use Optical 2, just to make sure they aren't a shared ressource or conflict with each other or something. (Just to be safe, I'm not familiar with your AVR's quirks...)

Samsung BDP-1600 and Harman Kardon AVR144.

Component video + TOSLink



Go into Samsung's setup menu.

Set Digital Output to "Bitstream" or "Bitstream audiophile"
Disable PCM downsampling
keep Dynamic compression On
Select surround compatible downmixing mode

YES, this is what it should look like. I'm going to try this again. It's probably something stupid that I'm over looking. I'll post a bit later.
 
F

flyty55

Enthusiast
Adam, you were right. That's it. I should have taken your advise sooner.

"When the player outputs HD audio bitstream(Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio) from the Optical jack to an HDMI 1.3 receiver, only 2 channel PCM audio will be heard."

Finally, what it comes down to. I was trying to play my blu-ray discs that are in DTS-HD or Dolby Digital multi channel through an optical cable (input). Optical cables DO NOT support dts-hd or dd muti channel.
I tried some older DVD's with just DTS or DD 5.1 and it works with the optical cable. As far as the Pink Floyd DVD is concerned, I must have had a wrong setting on the receiver because now it works.

The question still remains in my mind as to why digital coax supports it but not optical. Well, learn something new every day. I'll keep using the player with the coax output.

Thanks a bunch to everyone for their advise and responses. You people steered me in the right direction and made me think.
 
JohnL

JohnL

Enthusiast
Adam, you were right. That's it. I should have taken your advise sooner.

"When the player outputs HD audio bitstream(Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio) from the Optical jack to an HDMI 1.3 receiver, only 2 channel PCM audio will be heard."

Finally, what it comes down to. I was trying to play my blu-ray discs that are in DTS-HD or Dolby Digital multi channel through an optical cable (input). Optical cables DO NOT support dts-hd or dd muti channel.
I tried some older DVD's with just DTS or DD 5.1 and it works with the optical cable. As far as the Pink Floyd DVD is concerned, I must have had a wrong setting on the receiver because now it works.

The question still remains in my mind as to why digital coax supports it but not optical. Well, learn something new every day. I'll keep using the player with the coax output.

Thanks a bunch to everyone for their advise and responses. You people steered me in the right direction and made me think.

Hi,

The Pink Floyd problem could be due to the fact that one of the audio options is DD 5.1 @ 640kbps

The older Players and Receivers could only do DD 5.1 @ 448kbps or 384kbps.

Unless the manual for your machine SPECIFICALLY states that it does not support DD 5.1 through the Digital Optical out.... IT SHOULD WORK.

You mention DTS-HD when I think you just mean DTS.

As they lack sufficient bandwidth...BOTH the Coax AND Optical output CANNOT pass the new high res audio streams!!!

What should usually happen with older, NON HDMI, gear is that when you select a lossless audio stream like DTS HDMA the player passes the lossy DTS @ 1536kbps "core" instead.

Which, by the way, used to be as good as DVD sound got!!!

Maybe there is a conflict between your gear due to age.

At least you have the option of the OTHER player if all else fails!!


Cheers
 
JohnL

JohnL

Enthusiast
I'd say make sure that you are selecting the Dolby Digital or DTS track.

The main problem with that is that when he puts on a Blu Ray.....about 98% of the time......there is no DD or DTS track!!!

At least NOT an English one!!!


Cheers
 
JohnL

JohnL

Enthusiast
AMENDMENT to POST 14

I got timed out mid edit!!!

It SHOULD HAVE READ............

Hi,

The Pink Floyd problem could be due to the fact that one of the audio options is DD 5.1 @ 640kbps

The older Players and Receivers could only do DD 5.1 @ 448kbps or 384kbps.

You mention DTS-HD when I think you just mean DTS.

As they lack sufficient bandwidth...BOTH the Coax AND Optical output CANNOT pass the new high res audio streams!!!

What should usually happen with older, NON HDMI, gear is that when you select a lossless audio stream like DTS HDMA the player passes the lossy DTS @ 1536kbps "core" instead.

Which, by the way, used to be as good as DVD sound got!!!

Flyty55 has NAILED your problem.......Adam found it too!!

At least you have the option of the OTHER player!!

Cheers
 
J

JMJVK

Audioholic
OK, guys. Don't know about the AVR-140, but on the AVR-144, with the above settings, and latest firmware, I got both Oblivion's HD tracks to work with this BD player, downsampled to DTS 5.1 and Dolby Digital 5.1.

So, the Samsung BDP-1600's manual refers to original firmware's capabilities. It is no longer current. The down-sampled bitstream works.





 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
So, the Samsung BDP-1600's manual refers to original firmware's capabilities.
Great info - thanks!

That's a good point about firmware. To the OP - make sure to update that if you haven't already.
 
JohnL

JohnL

Enthusiast
Hi JMJVK,

Good work!!!

Lets hope his older model AVR is up to the task!!
 
F

flyty55

Enthusiast
I have never had the BD-P1600 connected on line so maybe updates is what it needs. I'll try later on today and see what happens.

You mention DTS-HD when I think you just mean DTS
Cheers
The blu ray discs are labeled DTS-HD and/or DD multi channel which my receiver/player turns into two channel (analog) with an optical cable or DTS ( as indicated on the receiver display) with a coax. A DVD is labeled DTS or DD 5.1 which works fine with either optical or coax cable.
 

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