Problem connecting Blueray player to old 5.1 receiver

[dd168168]

I want to set up a movie theatre using my really old Denon amplifiers. It was Denon AVP-5000 preamp with 2 POA-2800 amps. I hate to throw away those monster pieces. So I connect Sony blueray to TV by HDMI cable and use optical cable to receiver. However, when I played movie in 5.1 DTS, it will only produce loud static white noise. It would play 2.1 movie trailer with no problem though. I changed the source to regular DVD player with optical cable, it would produce 5.1 dolby surround sounds with no issues. My question is whether this problem is from that specific Sony blueray which might be defective? or is the problem more deep rooted as the modern blueray's optical output might not match the old receiver?

Thank you for your help.

 

[TLS Guy]

I want to set up a movie theatre using my really old Denon amplifiers. It was Denon AVP-5000 preamp with 2 POA-2800 amps. I hate to throw away those monster pieces. So I connect Sony blueray to TV by HDMI cable and use optical cable to receiver. However, when I played movie in 5.1 DTS, it will only produce loud static white noise. It would play 2.1 movie trailer with no problem though. I changed the source to regular DVD player with optical cable, it would produce 5.1 dolby surround sounds with no issues. My question is whether this problem is from that specific Sony blueray which might be defective? or is the problem more deep rooted as the modern blueray's optical output might not match the old receiver?

Thank you for your help.

Did you play more than one BD. Since it played the trailer, I suspect you are up against the Digital rights Management of Blu Ray discs.

Blu Ray discs are now allowed to have flags that can prevent the optical output of the TV sending out audio, or only allowing 2.1 audio.

So try a variety of discs, especially older ones that would not have the flag. Also see if it passes 2.1 if you set your BD player to mix 5.1 down to 2.1.

Unfortunately there is a forcing of HDMI and it is getting harder if not impossible to use legacy equipment. DVDs being SD do not have this issue.

 

[Adam]

Hi. I'm wondering if your TV was unable to decode the DTS signal.

Question - why not connect the blu-ray player audio directly to the Denon preamp? It looks like that preamp has multiple optical and coax digital inputs. Assuming your Sony has a digital audio output, you can send the video to your TV via HDMI and audio directly to your Denon.

 

[markw]

What Adam says. Take the TV out of the video chain.

Feed the Blu-ray video directly to the TV via HDMI and then feed another digital audio (coax or toslink) signal directly to the receiver/preamp. You'll have to select the audio and video separately but it beats not having it at all.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi. I'm wondering if your TV was unable to decode the DTS signal.

Question - why not connect the blu-ray player audio directly to the Denon preamp? It looks like that preamp has multiple optical and coax digital inputs. Assuming your Sony has a digital audio output, you can send the video to your TV via HDMI and audio directly to your Denon.

That might be his problem. I have been checking. DTS is an optional code, not mandated like Dolby. I have found out many TVs can not decode DTS. However discs are not required to have Dolby and many discs only have DTS.

What a mess has been created. No wonder the market is shrinking and firms tanking.

It gets worse. Here are the latest HDCP code regs from the BD association. This is another studio Gestapo organization. Here it is.

Blu-ray player and your receiver must have the necessary optical output/input (the audio can be multichannel, but not lossless as it cannot be transmitted via optical).

That pretty much enforces HDMI, since no video analog outs are allowed.

So it looks as if he needs to find an old BD player on eBay.

When we get posts like this it seems you can do no wrong by assuming it more likely than not has something to do with the enforcers.

 

[j_garcia]

So, you have the player hooked to the TV or the receiver with optical? Sounds like you went to the receiver with the optical, which would be correct, however you also may have to switch the player to bitstream instead of LPCM, and make sure DTS is enabled. These may not be on my default for the SPDIF connection. You also need to make sure the player is set to output audio via optical rather than HDMI, since you have both connected.

 

[TLS Guy]

So, you have the player hooked to the TV or the receiver with optical? Sounds like you went to the receiver with the optical, which would be correct, however you also may have to switch the player to bitstream instead of LPCM, and make sure DTS is enabled. These may not be on my default for the SPDIF connection. You also need to make sure the player is set to output audio via optical rather than HDMI, since you have both connected.

I guess we all need to slow down and do our home work.

His processor is an old Dolby pro logic unit from 1991!

For anything other than two channel operation it is useless. It has no codecs and no bass management.

His power amps are 200 watt mono blocks.

So that processor is useless for multi channel audio. Also it is only standard definition video with only composite and s-video inputs and outputs.

So in the context of modern AV that processor is has to be junked. It is only of any use as a 2.0 audio preamp at this time.

His DVD must have been outputting 2 channel.

So he can only use this unit with the players set to output 2 channel LPCM I suspect, as that is what was around back then.

His power amps are fine.

If he wants to play BD and DVD in HD and discrete multichannel audio, then that processor has to go.

He needs to get a receiver with preouts and connect his power amps to power his left and right front speakers. He needs to use the receiver to power the center and surrounds. He should also get a sub woofer.

 

[j_garcia]

Yep, that was my next though, to check the pre/AVR. If that one does not have multichannel analog inputs (and it looks like it does not), then yes, it is useless in this context.

 

[markw]

DPL from 1991? That inaccurate "5.1" description threw us all off. Yeah, he's kinda screwed as far as multi-channel goes. The bet he can hope for is if his TV has an analog audio output. He can get some sort of matrixed surround from that system.

 

[TLS Guy]

Yep, that was my next though, to check the pre/AVR. If that one does not have multichannel analog inputs (and it looks like it does not), then yes, it is useless in this context.

I guess we should have clued in to really old. I was thinking of about 10 years not 23!

The OP needs to understand that his processor is not really a surround unit in a strict sense. It only handles two channel and fakes the center and surrounds.

Those old pro logic units were really awful unless outputting two channel and not using the surround capability.

 

[TLS Guy]

DPL from 1991? That inaccurate "5.1" description threw us all off. Yeah, he's kinda screwed as far as multi-channel goes. The bet he can hope for is if his TV has an analog audio output. He can get some sort of matrixed surround from that system.

He can use an optical cable from player to processor, as long as the disc the player is set to output 2 channel LPCM. Unfortunately many discs do not have a two channel PCM track. If the player will not output two channel LPCM when all tracks use a codec he is stuck. His processor has no way of decoding a digitally compressed signal, which is what I bet he will get out of his player with most discs. So he is stuck. If he tells us what player he is using we can download the manual.

And yes, his processor is not 5.1. It is 2.0 with synthesized 5.0 via Dolby Prologic. So he did not describe what he has accurately.

 

[markw]

I strongly doubt optical cables were an option in those days. IIRC, all signals were sent through red/white analog cables then, just like the best video foramat was S-video. Optical and digital coax for audio didn't come into being until DVD's and discrete digital processing which started with DVD's.

 

[TLS Guy]

I strongly doubt optical cables were an option in those days. IIRC, all signals were sent through red/white analog cables then, just like the best video foramat was S-video. Optical and digital coax for audio didn't come into being until DVD's and discrete digital processing which started with DVD's.

SPDIF was around then for audio. That processor has four Toslink inputs and two coax RCA inputs. It has one optical Toslink output for a DAT recorder. They handle 32, 44 and 48 Hz sampling frequencies.

My guess is it only handles two channel LPCM for CD and DAT players, Direct broadcast satellite systems and the early video disc players. The later were either large Sony laser discs the size of LPs, or the RCA capacitance cassette discs. There were no DVD and BD players then. Video was VHS pretty much and those are analog.

 

[dd168168]

Finally, Thanks to TLS guy, I think you nailed the problem. It is the preamp that is too old. Yesterday, I changed blueray player output to downmix PCM and noise was gone. All 5 channels were playing but dolby prologic was not working. So the preamp has to go. As members suggested, I need a AVR with preout. I have a Pioneer VSX-520-K sitting idle, but it does not have preout. I am thinking to get diy preouts just for front and centre speakers and use the recever just for surround.

Thanks all for your help. You guys are so knowledgable and helpful.

 

[dd168168]

Finally, thanks to TLS guy, I think you nailed the problem. It is the preamp that is too old. Yesterday, I changed blueray player output to downmix PCM and noise was gone. All 5 channels were playing but dolby prologic was not working. So the preamp has to go. As members suggested, I need a AVR with preout. I have a Pioneer VSX-520-K sitting idle, but it does not have preout. I am thinking to get diy preouts just for front speakers and use the recever just for surround. Can I get the signals for front speakers from the joints between input boards and power boards?

Thanks all for your help. You guys are so knowledgable and helpful.

 

[TLS Guy]

Finally, thanks to TLS guy, I think you nailed the problem. It is the preamp that is too old. Yesterday, I changed blueray player output to downmix PCM and noise was gone. All 5 channels were playing but dolby prologic was not working. So the preamp has to go. As members suggested, I need a AVR with preout. I have a Pioneer VSX-520-K sitting idle, but it does not have preout. I am thinking to get diy preouts just for front speakers and use the recever just for surround. Can I get the signals for front speakers from the joints between input boards and power boards?

Thanks all for your help. You guys are so knowledgable and helpful.

You can if you know what you are doing.

You will need to identify the inputs to the right and left amps.

The you need to remove the electronic boards, as you will have to drill the case for the jacks.
You don't want the drill fillings going over the boards as you will have lots of trouble. My guess is you will have problems finding a place to mount the jacks as the there will be boards right up against pretty much the whole back panel.

You will need switched jacks so that the amps are disconnected when you insert the plug.

I think you will get a surprise when you see how close spaced everything is.

I have to say though, that looks a pretty miserable low end receiver. I would put it up on eBay and get something better.

 

[dd168168]

Yes, it is a very low end receiver that I found from father's home. That is why I want to try a diy preout on it while I am looking for a decent AVR. I found the joint connector between input board and power amplifier board, where you can see 5 channel connections. Is it really necessary that I need a switch to cut off amps? I figure that the receiver with preout does not cut power amp when you get the signals from preouts.

I am pretty good with solderng iron and may give it a try.

By the way, what will be a decent 5.1 receiver with preouts I should look for?

 

[TLS Guy]

Yes, it is a very low end receiver that I found from father's home. That is why I want to try a diy preout on it while I am looking for a decent AVR. I found the joint connector between input board and power amplifier board, where you can see 5 channel connections. Is it really necessary that I need a switch to cut off amps? I figure that the receiver with preout does not cut power amp when you get the signals from preouts.

I am pretty good with solderng iron and may give it a try.

By the way, what will be a decent 5.1 receiver with preouts I should look for?

You don't absolutely have to cut the connection, especially if it is temporary.

For a receiver I would look at Denon or Marantz.