Power Conditioners - technical decision

[JurisFrog]

having read this site and others, there is no doubt I need a power conditioner; the question is, which one?

I like the look and style of the monster component conditioners, and I am trying to decide between the hts 2600 or 3600. One has "stage 2" protection, the other "state 3 protection". Apparently, stage 3 protection gives you separate conditioning over digital audio signals, whereas stage 2 protection separates "high current" and "low current" analog power inputs, but does not separate digital from analog.

Is this separation necessary? Will I notice the difference? Anyone have any experience with one or both of these models?

Note I am running a Denon 2805 with Aperion 5.1, old Sony dvd player, vcr, and Sony CRT television, but I have plans to get a Denon universal player and an hdtv in the future. Thanks.

 

[JohnA]

Another way

This is just MHO but....look into Furman and Tripp-Lite for other options!!

 

[JurisFrog]

Thank you, John. Internet research revealed the Furman is releasing a new consumer line, called the Elite 15, starting in January of this year. I spoke with the people at Furman, and this new technology is three years in the making. They have reverse-engineered many other, name-brand power conditioners, and they have apparently made some significant improvements.

The machines look cool, and they are priced from 300-500. The $500 model includes mostly the same technology contained in Furman's reference series, which is $1600 and up.

I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks.

 

[Nick250]

having read this site and others, there is no doubt I need a power conditioner; the question is, which one?

If you expect audio or video improvement from a power conditioner the only improvment will be from the "placebo effect". Spend the dough on room treatments or better speakers if you want improved sound. And BTW, from reading posts from this site my impression is that most feel power conditioners are a poor investment. IMHO, YMMV yadda, yadda.

Nick

 

[jaxvon]

Power Conditioners are NOT just the placebo effect! If you have noise in your AC line from a resistor switch on lights, other appliances, or whatever, you will find that a high-quality unit will make a night and day difference. Doing a simple A/B test will yield dramatic results with a quality conditioner. My friend had this issue in a amateur studio with halogen lights on a resistor switch. There was a loud buzzing in the speakers that wouldn't go away. Then we plugged the system into a power conditioner. No more noise. Also, a power conditioner acts as a surge supressor that will protect your gear if lightning ever decides to strike your house.

 

[howie85]

note the review done on audioholics
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/monster_HTS-3500a.php

 

[Nick250]

Power Conditioners are NOT just the placebo effect! If you have noise in your AC line from a resistor switch on lights, other appliances, or whatever, you will find that a high-quality unit will make a night and day difference. Doing a simple A/B test will yield dramatic results with a quality conditioner. My friend had this issue in a amateur studio with halogen lights on a resistor switch. There was a loud buzzing in the speakers that wouldn't go away. Then we plugged the system into a power conditioner. No more noise. Also, a power conditioner acts as a surge supressor that will protect your gear if lightning ever decides to strike your house.

OK, so if you have a buzzing sound in your speakers caused by a resistor switch and a power conditioner resolves the problem, wonderful. However, unless you have a very specific and unique problem that only a power conditioner will address then there is no point to it and the power conditioner will have no impact on the audio or video of your system. A good quality surge protector is all that you need.

 

[Leprkon]

However, unless you have a very specific and unique problem that only a power conditioner will address

Sad to say, but anyone having an evil device like an icemaker or hairdryer or fluorescent lights will fall into your category of "specific and unique". Unless you had a very good electrician wiring your house and an even better electric company, you can see AC voltage spikes from 80 to 160 volts in a normal house.

A power conditioner or UPS may not make every note sound better, but it will take out the ocassional pop and hiss that everyday line noise will cause.

 

[sjdgpt]

Many electronic items will cause noise issues, especially so with TV's and to a lesser extent audio equipment, and cost difference between a surge protector and a power conditioner/surge protector is often less than $10, so why not spurge a few extra bucks and protect your equipment?

 

[Votrax]

I don't think a normal house would see a voltage variation of 80-160Vac. If your voltage varies that much you need to call your electric company.

 

[jzac]

Another good one...

Better to be safe than sorry... might as well get a good power conditioner. Besides the brands mentioned here already here's another very good one from Panamax for the technology, name, and money.

http://www.panamax.com/products.cfm?group=1&sec=group_app

I bought Panamax MAX 5100 model a few weeks ago, and i see very noticeable improvement in the quality of sound and vision in my HT setup. Superb features and functionality on this unit! Ofcourse, you can shop around and get this unit for about $200. Check it out.

 

[EricH]

I’ll toss my 2 cents (or dollars) in.

My apartment was built just after electricity was discovered so everything is electric; including the hot water heater. I had spikes showing up on my speakers when I was looking at a hum issue on a scope (about a -30mV bounce on a 15mV signal @120Hz) so I started thinking about this very seriously.

There were two ways to go to fix this: isolation or conditioning. Conditioning is not really the way to fix a AC noise issue isolation is. The CMRR (or PSRR if you consider it a P/S) of an isolation transformer is huge compared to a conditioner (in most cases). A conditioner is more of a voltage stabilizer (tap jumper or continuous regulator type) or simply a filter. All the “real” conditioners I have dealt with were the voltage stab+filter+surge protector kind (i.e. Tripp Lite or ferroresonant regulator type – Kleen-Line).

What got me really thinking conditioner was that jump on the speakers. Could that be some brownout on the AC?

For my problem I decided to try the conditioner. I did this for three basic reasons:

1) The noise was not that bad and the transformer in the conditioner should help choke it out.

2) I suspected I was browning out. I had new neighbors move in next to me and thought they were to blame. Darn electric stove turner on'rs

3) I already had one. Ironically, I pulled it off my HT because I thought it never did anything!

I hooked up my LC2400 and (just for paranoia’s sake) a good surge strip after it. It did not fix my noise problem.

I still had 15mV@120Hz riding on my Rotel’s outputs. What solved the noise issue was fixing the ground loop I had not noticed (or thought about). I grounded my power amp to my receiver and bingo – no more noise.

You have to play with this ground stuff as sometimes it is not intuitive where the ground problem is. I found a speaker wire (audio zip cord) with one end on the receiver chassis and touching screws on the other components chassis a good plan of attack.

SO I was all wet on my first assumption but hit pay dirt on the second. I’ve seen (and heard) the conditioner switch taps a few times. Thankfully not too often (that relay is a tad loud) but often enough to justify leaving the box there.

Avoid the snake oil in this power stuff. It’s gotten just as bad as cables and is easy to get sucked into IMHO. When in doubt about AC stuff ask a qualified electrician not an audiophile. Also, exhaust any grounding issues before spending cash – it’s easy and cheap.

BTW. If you really have to have stable, true isolated, filtered and surge protected AC voltage look into Kleen-Line. Although VERY expensive (no more than Monster's top end though) I have used these and they do work. I used these on microvolt sensitive Guzik magnetic head testers to fix a few "fails gauge potential study" problems. I think it's overkill for audio but there it is. Just for a taste the KLR-2500 20A runs around $1,500.00 eek!

 

[miklorsmith]

Most conditioners are said to reduce audio dynamics. Monster conditioners are the brand I've heard this statement made about several times.

That's the tricky part. The solution to your problem may introduce one more insidious. If there is another (cheaper) way to solve the problem, your final result will likely be superior.

I'm also against $10 computer power-strips, but that's another matter.

 

[sjdgpt]

I don't think a normal house would see a voltage variation of 80-160Vac. If your voltage varies that much you need to call your electric company.

Unfortunately, BIG voltage swings are a fact of life. 80 to 160 in a home? Don't know..

I sell commercial electrically operated equipment (not audio), and much of our equipment failures are the result of the nominal voltage (typical voltage) deviated as much as 11% from the standard, and voltage swings typically +/- 7%.

Your right, its time to call the electrician. Actually, more correctly, your power suppy company.

 

[zumbo]

Well, I just did it. Who knows if it is a wise investment, but I have had lightning toast equipment in the past. Even equipment hooked into a good surge protector. So, since I have so much tied-up in my sytem, what's a few more dollars?

This is what I got. I went with the 315. Found it for $229.95 with free shipping! click here

 

[JurisFrog]

One final thought

One final note on the Furman:

The Furman Elite series is a great value, but an even better value is their power strip series, if you can live without having the conditioner in a compoenent box. Their strips contain the exact same board, surge suppression, and filtering technology as the Elite 15 and Elite 15 DM ($299 and $399 respectively), but the strips are less expensive ($159 for the Digital 8 and $219 for the Digital 10). Also, the Digital 10 comes with sequenced on/off, which is not offered on any Elite 15.

So, I ordered the Digital 8 powerstrip, and I'll have it soon. Their customer service is great; they are informative and pleasant to speak with.

I'll let everyone know what I think once it arrives. Cheers.

 

[jzac]

Better to be safe than sorry... might as well get a good power conditioner. Besides the brands mentioned here already here's another very good one from Panamax for the technology, name, and money.

http://www.panamax.com/products.cfm?group=1&sec=group_app

I bought Panamax MAX 5100 model a few weeks ago, and i see very noticeable improvement in the quality of sound and vision in my HT setup. Superb features and functionality on this unit! Ofcourse, you can shop around and get this unit for about $200. Check it out.

Shucks, too bad you already decided! You cannot go wrong with a unit like the Panamax that comes with a $5 million dollar guarantee... Period! I don't think anybody else in the market assures you that kind of guarantee!

 

[BeerMe]

You guys seem to know a bit about these power conditioners. I just wanted to ask if any of you have read or heard anything about the Belkin pure av range of boards?

I had a problem which is why I was looking at getting one of these boards.When my sub was connected (even in standby) I had this high frequency noise coming through all channels. I did a bit of fault tracing and found that it was the tv antenna. So I earthed the splitter and hey presto no high frequency noise driving all the dogs in the neigbourhood wild.

I'm still interested in some sort of power protection for my gear and I can get the 'Belkin pure av 8 plug model' from an online shop for about half the price than any retailer near me. ($160au instead of $300au)

I looked at the models you all talked about but I live in Australia, so none of them are made for here, the power here is 240Vac.

John

Don't drive angry.

 

[sjdgpt]

Belkin is a reputable brand. Commonly sold by office supply companies and usually at a fair price. If you can get a good deal on their product, grab it.

 

[mathu]

I don't have an Adcom dealer near me. Can anyone give a good review on the ACE-315?