Pioneer Andrew Jones SP-PK52FS review

[KEW]

I do understand that some people may/would prefer the 41
over the 22, due to the larger woofer and deeper bass. For
me, the star of the new series is the tweeter, along with the
good crossover work. Have fun with your auditions. Speaker
collecting can become habit forming.

Trust me, I didn't start this week!

I need to just be quiet about FS52 vs EMP 41B until I've had plenty of time to sort things out. Either sounds better than the other in a given place in the music and I'm not going to reach a sound conclusion in the minutes I have spent. It will be Tuesday before I have time to do it right.
For now, all I am comfortable saying is that they are very competitive.

 

[Irishman]

So, it looks like Pioneer?/Andrew? is nixing the SP-BS4X bookshelf which had a 5-1/4" woofer, while keeping the SP-BS2X with the 4" woofer.
I wonder if it didn't sell well or if they recognized a difficulty in using the 5-1/4 woofer for bass and midrange at the same time?

The SP-FS52 drivers are designated as 1ea 5-1/4 midrange and 2ea 5-1/4 woofers (and 1" tweeter). 3KHz and 250Hz are the crossover points. It is unclear (to me, anyway) whether the midrange driver plays below 250Hz or not.

Go to the "Manual & Brochures" link for specifics. The main page just lists 3 5-1/4" woofers.
Home Theater Speakers | Pioneer Electronics USA

At $200 for the pair from TD, I had to check them out. FS52's on order

(Thanks to ADTG for being the standard bearer and proof that I don't have a real problem!)

I love mine! I'm sure you'll love yours!

Let us know when you have a chance to break them in.

 

[doubledown]

Well, I had to go ahead and register. I have been lurking and just got back from BB with a pair of FS52s and a C22 They will be run off a Pioneer 1021K. They are replacing an original series B&W 602 and CC6 that I was never very happy with, always sounded muddy to me. I have an old M&K V75 II sub till I set aside more money for a new sub. In the rear I will either be using an old pair of Atlantic Technology dipole surrounds or some old original PSB Alphas. Really looking forward to seeing what these are capable of.

BTW, BB matched Tiger Direct. Even came down so that with tax they were two dollars cheaper than my TD total.

 

[zieglj01]

Well, I had to go ahead and register. I have been lurking and just got back from BB with a pair of FS52s and a C22 They will be run off a Pioneer 1021K.

Good deal - have fun and enjoy.

 

[KEW]

I love mine! I'm sure you'll love yours!

Let us know when you have a chance to break them in.

I broke them in as soon as I got them. My review is earlier in this thread. I'd link but I'm on phone.

 

[GFOViedo]

Well, after reading many good reviews at AVSForums and here about the new Pioneer speakers, I'm thinking of buying a 3.1 system to replace my current 3 front speakers and sub from my 7.1 setup.

I just got to try to talk the wife into letting me

 

[KEW]

SP-FS52 vs SP-BS22LR

So, I was challenged to determine a victor between the EMP 41B vs FS52's and I brought home the BS22's. Thinking they might help me make distinctions and noting that both the EMP and the BS22 have 4" mid/woofers, I decided to hook them up for comparison. I was surprised that there was no contest, the EMP's were consistently better on all music. I was expecting the 52 and 22 to sound very much the same in the upper frequencies, but they do not.
In any case, I figured comparing the 22 vs 52 made sense as this next step. Visually, the tweeters are identical.
Almost all of my comments about the SP-BS41 apply to the SP-BS22 (Post #96, this thread).
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/915564-post96.html
The same compression of the stage width and reduction of "air" existed. This made me wonder if I had polarity reversed on the 22's. No dice -I swapped the leads on one BS22 and their sound got worse. Maybe I had a defect. I disconnected both right speakers and compared the left channels only, then did the same for the right. Again, no dice - unless both of the BS22 are defective, which seems like a long shot.
Now I am using terms like defective, but these are still very good sounding bookshelf speakers. I don't understand why the floorstanders would have more air and image better, but they do. Usually, a small BS speakers wins in imaging.
I re-read my comparison between the 41 and 52 and have only two deviations from simply substituting in 22 for 41 in that review:
1) On Heart of the Sunrise, the deeper bass of the floorstanders trumped the BS22's louder bass whereas, the 41's bass sounded better than the 52's on this particular track.
2) In this comparison, I had a sense that the FS52 might be a little bright for some people. Vocals sounded close mic'ed on the FS52 and not so much on the BS22. I don't know which is correct. This perception of the FS52 perhaps being on the bright side came after comparison against the EMPs, so it may be the EMP's highlighted it and it no longer escapes notice.

Conclusion
I am miffed on the difference between these two speakers. I do not think there could be that much difference from speaker location. The tweeters were close together and the 22's were on top of the 52's. This was definitely a greater difference than what I heard when comparing pro and consumer amps:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/912282-post132.html
Nonetheless, I have not heard a better speaker than the BS22 anywhere near this price (with the obvious exception of the FS52).

I'll get to a 41 vs 22 tomorrow and the EMP vs 52 Thursday.

 

[zieglj01]

Conclusion
I am miffed on the difference between these two speakers. I do not think there could be that much difference from speaker location. The tweeters were close together and the 22's were on top of the 52's.

Nonetheless, I have not heard a better speaker than the BS22 anywhere near this price (with the obvious exception of the FS52).

Thanks for the review - I am still glad that you liked the speakers.
The tweeter on both the 52 & 22, are stated to crossover at 3 khz.
Sometimes audio can be interesting. > I can not speak for an in
home 52 versus 22 showdown. Maybe the 22 wanted to be humble,
and give the 52 some respect.

 

[KEW]

I went ahead and plugged in the 41's and a quick A/B is all that is really needed. The BS22's do, indeed, have more shine and better imaging than the 41's; however it is not nearly so pronounced as it was between the 22 and 52. The 41 and 22 seem much closer on the high end than either is to the 52.
Naturally, the 41's have better bass.
I'd have to give a slight nod to the 22's, but I would think this a highly personal choice. If you put a premium on imaging, the 22s are better. If you will use them alone without a sub, the 41 is the clear winner.
If you include an extra $50 for the 41's, I'd get the 22's. If the 41's go back on sale for $85, that is a tough one to call.
(this is based on the current price of $100/pr. for the 22's)

 

[gene]

So, I was challenged to determine a victor between the EMP 41B vs FS52's and I brought home the BS22's. Thinking they might help me make distinctions and noting that both the EMP and the BS22 have 4" mid/woofers, I decided to hook them up for comparison. I was surprised that there was no contest, the EMP's were consistently better on all music. I was expecting the 52 and 22 to sound very much the same in the upper frequencies, but they do not.
In any case, I figured comparing the 22 vs 52 made sense as this next step. Visually, the tweeters are identical.
Almost all of my comments about the SP-BS41 apply to the SP-BS22 (Post #96, this thread).
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/915564-post96.html
The same compression of the stage width and reduction of "air" existed. This made me wonder if I had polarity reversed on the 22's. No dice -I swapped the leads on one BS22 and their sound got worse. Maybe I had a defect. I disconnected both right speakers and compared the left channels only, then did the same for the right. Again, no dice - unless both of the BS22 are defective, which seems like a long shot.
Now I am using terms like defective, but these are still very good sounding bookshelf speakers. I don't understand why the floorstanders would have more air and image better, but they do. Usually, a small BS speakers wins in imaging.
I re-read my comparison between the 41 and 52 and have only two deviations from simply substituting in 22 for 41 in that review:
1) On Heart of the Sunrise, the deeper bass of the floorstanders trumped the BS22's louder bass whereas, the 41's bass sounded better than the 52's on this particular track.
2) In this comparison, I had a sense that the FS52 might be a little bright for some people. Vocals sounded close mic'ed on the FS52 and not so much on the BS22. I don't know which is correct. This perception of the FS52 perhaps being on the bright side came after comparison against the EMPs, so it may be the EMP's highlighted it and it no longer escapes notice.

Conclusion
I am miffed on the difference between these two speakers. I do not think there could be that much difference from speaker location. The tweeters were close together and the 22's were on top of the 52's. This was definitely a greater difference than what I heard when comparing pro and consumer amps:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/912282-post132.html
Nonetheless, I have not heard a better speaker than the BS22 anywhere near this price (with the obvious exception of the FS52).

I'll get to a 41 vs 22 tomorrow and the EMP vs 52 Thursday.

Great write up! You have to realize the EMP 41-B is a special speaker that shouldn't be sold at their low asking price. In the RBH line, this speaker would sell for close to $900/pair. In any event, the 41B's really shine when crossed over to a sub which is what I''d recommend with any small 2-way bookshelf speaker like this.

Heart of the Sunrise? Yes fan huh? Good listening

 

[KEW]

Thanks for the review - I am still glad that you liked the speakers.
The tweeter on both the 52 & 22, are stated to crossover at 3khz.
Sometimes audio can interesting. >>> I can not speak for an in
home 52 versus 22 showdown. Maybe the 22 wanted to be humble,
and give the 52 some respect.

I wish I could make sense of it. All I can do is say what I observed. Maybe when Gene takes measurements, something will come to light to help explain this; but I'm not holding my breath.
I suppose it is possible that the 52 crossover is nicer, but between the larger cabinet and two extra woofers, I would expect the extra dollars in the 52 disappeared quickly.
I am surprised that both crossover at the same frequency. But I guess if the tweeter behaves well down to 3kHz, there is no reason to use the 4" woofer for higher frequencies than the larger ones.

 

[zieglj01]

I wish I could make sense of it. All I can do is say what I observed. Maybe when Gene takes measurements, something will come to light to help explain this; but I'm not holding my breath.
I suppose it is possible that the 52 crossover is nicer, but between the larger cabinet and two extra woofers, I would expect the extra dollars in the 52 disappeared quickly.
I am surprised that both crossover at the same frequency. But I guess if the tweeter behaves well down to 3kHz, there is no reason to use the 4" woofer for higher frequencies than the larger ones.

Maybe Gene can find an answer - however for me, they still
beat a lot of popular name brand speakers costing more.

The BS22, has a 6 element crossover that looks second order
to me - 2 coils, 2 capacitors (1 is poly for the tweeter), and 2
resistors. That is a lot of work/design for a $129/$100 pair of
speakers. The old PSB Alpha and Paradigm Atom/Titans, never
did anything like this with their budget entries. Three budget
bookshelf speakers stand out to me, the Pioneer, Cambridge
Audio S30, and HTD Level Two. It is nice when someone will
raise the bar.

 

[GranteedEV]

Is it just me, or these speakers are not available in Canada????

 

[KEW]

Heart of the Sunrise? Yes fan huh? Good listening

Definitely a Yes fan. This song is a great audition song for me. The "hard charging" parts (like the intro) sound overblown and get a bit tedious on lesser speakers, but sound great on a good system. Then in the quiet bass/vocal/piano parts, you can listen for the that special growl Squire tuned into his bass. While all speakers capture this sound on the lower notes, more articulate speakers keep it farther into the upper bass notes!

 

[KEW]

Maybe Gene can find an answer - however for me, they still beat a lot of popular name brand speakers costing more.

I definitely agree with this statement. The FS52 is the only budget speaker I have heard that beats the 22's and it is twice the price and much the same design.

The BS22, has a 6 element crossover that looks second order
to me - 2 coils, 2 capacitors (1 is poly for the tweeter), and 2
resistors. That is a lot of work/design for a $129/$100 pair of
speakers. The old PSB Alpha and Paradigm Atom/Titans, never
did anything like this with their budget entries. Three budget
bookshelf speakers stand out to me, the Pioneer $100/pr, Cambridge
Audio S30 $220/pr, and HTD Level Two $200/pr. It is nice when someone will
raise the bar.

Thanks for that!
I know you've listen to a heck of a lot of budget bookshelf speakers. At the $200/pr. price point, I have to wonder - have you heard the NHT SuperZeros?
I have not heard them, just wondering what your impressions were if you did.

 

[zieglj01]

I definitely agree with this statement. The FS52 is the only budget speaker I have heard that beats the 22's and it is twice the price and much the same design.

Thanks for that!
I know you've listen to a heck of a lot of budget bookshelf speakers. At the $200/pr. price point, I have to wonder - have you heard the NHT SuperZeros?
I have not heard them, just wondering what your impressions were if you did.

I use to own some SuperZeros, they are nice > however, they
really are bass shy - and need to be placed against the wall,
for some bass. The midrange is nice and the treble decent >>
however, they do sound somewhat thin and are lacking in the
punch and dynamics department. >> If someone really desires
some small sat speakers and has a sub that plays above 120hz
then they are solid for a sub/sat system > The SuperZero is a
good option for surround speakers.

While not being perfect, I do consider the BS22, S30 and HTD
Level Two speakers, all around better performers over the NHT
SuperZeros. For their size, the NHT midrange is competitive.

 

[gene]

Definitely a Yes fan. This song is a great audition song for me. The "hard charging" parts (like the intro) sound overblown and get a bit tedious on lesser speakers, but sound great on a good system. Then in the quiet bass/vocal/piano parts, you can listen for the that special growl Squire tuned into his bass. While all speakers capture this sound on the lower notes, more articulate speakers keep it farther into the upper bass notes!

Cool, my brother just finished an interview with Jon Anderson which should post at the beginning of November. He is getting back with Yes and Trevor Rabin to make a new album. I'm looking forward as I wasn't too keen on their replacement singer during the last tour.

 

[ahblaza]

FS52 on sale

Best Buy has them in stock and on sale now.
Pioneer 514" Floor Speaker Each SP-FS52 - Best Buy SP-FS52-LR&cp=1&lp=9

Seems like a lot of people are catching on to these jems, going fast, no TD, no Amazon either......

 

[ahblaza]

I will likely go listen to these pioneer's to see if they really live up to the hype.

They Do, take our word for it.....

 

[KEW]

Pio SP-FS52 vs EMP 41B

After a lot of listening, I have to say that (ignoring bass - using 130 High Pass crossover) the EMP's have better sound, IMHO.

For anyone not familiar with the EMP 41B, here is a link to Gene's review of it. It is worth pointing out the the 41B has higher quality drivers than those used for the EMP Impression series.
EMP VT-40.2 Tube Amplifier & 41-SE/B Speaker System Review — Reviews and News from Audioholics

It will be neat to see what Gene finds when he measures the Pioneers. Through tipped up high frequency and/or some type of dispersion innovation (those are my best guesses), Pioneer has accomplished a very airy and shiny effect for the sound of these speakers. I find it very appealing. First off, I am impressed that the soft dome tweeter can put so much shine on cold steel (and brass if you want to get technical). It provides an open airiness which is amazing! It has none of the audible distortion that often comes with this HF response in less than ideal aluminum tweeter designs (and is a source of listening fatigue for me). With this effect comes the amazing imaging and broad sound stage. On many types of music, the benefit of this effect suggests the Pioneers as speakers that could easily command $1000/pr. I do not have a pair of speakers that performs this particular effect quite so well!
On the downside, it seems like mid-range and mid-treble are a bit subdued compared to the highs. Listening to ride cymbals while switching between the two speakers, the PIO's have beautiful open rendition of the higher harmonics, but the lower components of the cymbals' harmonic signature are comparatively muted. About everything on the Pio's sounds close mic'ed, but when comparing it to a speaker like the EMP 41B's it is clear that the lower sounds are being sacrificed. The Pioneers sound comparatively thin on a lot of music.
I heard the same general trends when comparing the 52's to the 22's, so I may have short-changed the 22's. The HF effect of the 52's is a bigger attention getter than the stronger, fuller midrange. Shine is a good term because it not only describes the sound, but also the way it catches your attention.

To be continued...