Philharmonic speakers: Slims vs BMR Monitors

[Mangoman]

Obviously it will be extremely difficult for me to find these to listen to them, but has anyone listened to both? From the excellent help in another post, I have definitely set my sights on these (have even emailed the manufacturer....waiting for reply). I think they offer a very compelling product especially when I was kind of getting ready for B&W 805D3's. I wa even open to going with a used pair of 805- "S" or possibly D2....until the philharmonic suggestion. I listened to a few more speakers and the store I went to here in Minneapolis had nothing but huge glowing compliments for the Phils. Also, it helped me to discern that for my ears, I don't necessarily need McIntosh (for now anyway). I want to do it right and so, although budget is always a concern, I'm willing to spend a bit more to get it done right.

I like the idea of either but the monitors might be a bit easier on the eyes for my small room - 11 x 17, 8 foot ceilings kind of an L shape at the very back of the room that opens to my small bar area. Listening spot is approx 14 feet from front wall where tv is. We also have a leather L shaped couch that is the only seating and an ottoman. I will pair it with one of his center channels and a subwoofer ( one to start, and possibly upgrade to two if needed - leaning toward something from SVS, and sealed).

I found a great deal on a classe sigma ssp and amp, so I might pull the trigger on that. And definitely will most likely hire a professional to set up the eq for the room. I'll take their advice as to sound dampers, etc, as I am sure it's needed.

Thanks for the input/ thoughts.

 

[lovinthehd]

Maybe @Dennis Murphy would comment, he's around a fair bit. Can't help you with the comparison requested as I haven't had the pleasure. So some store salesmen actually knew about Philharmonics, via having owned them, or just the buzz they're hearing?

 

[Swerd]

I've heard the BMR Philharmonitor, and some time ago I also heard the original (larger) Slim Tower. That floor stander had the same mid range and tweeter as the present smaller Slim Jr., but the woofer was larger and more expensive. I don't think I've heard the Slim Jr.

I agree, it's a hard choice. Both speakers have some compelling features. The BMR has the very wide off-axis response of that mid range driver, and it has excellent bass response. It is a stand mount monitor, but its large. Make sure you have a clear idea how large 22" High × 9" Wide × 13.5" Deep is.

The present Slim Tower has the excellent sounding transmission line bass tuning – the BMR cabinet is ported reflex. Both are excellent, but may have some differences in sound in your room. The Slim Tower also has the mid range driver with an open back that can add depth and realism to the sound. It allows the owner to vary the stuffing behind the mid range to vary that sound. The BMR does not have that. Both differences, transmission line bass and open back mid range are hard to describe in words but can be worth having in my opinion.

Both the BMR and the Slim Tower will sound better (in my opinion) and cost less (?) than the B&W 805 you've considered.

 

[j_garcia]

Give them a few days to respond and if you don't hear from Dennis here or by email, shoot him another one. He's a small shop so sometimes things take a while.

I have some very large monitors that are about the size of the BMRs and they're not too unwieldy, you just need a solid stand.

I don't really think you'd go wrong with either of them

 

[Pogre]

So some store salesmen actually knew about Philharmonics, via having owned them, or just the buzz they're hearing?

I wondering the same. Dennis' work must be getting around. From what I'm reading about his speakers it's not too big a surprise. I secretly (from my wife) have my sites set on a pair of the BMR Philharmonitors. Not for a while probably, but they're on my radar.

 

[j_garcia]

I went into a shop out here and the guy knew about them too. He was surprised when I told him I owned some. I was surprised he knew what they were.

 

[Mangoman]

I wondering the same. Dennis' work must be getting around. From what I'm reading about his speakers it's not too big a surprise. I secretly (from my wife) have my sites set on a pair of the BMR Philharmonitors. Not for a while probably, but they're on my radar.

From what I gathered from him, it was both: from what he has read, but also had a chance at a west coast trip, to hear some Of the offerings that a friend has. I am just glad to get a lot of good opinions being thrown at me.

 

[TheWarrior]

How many subs do you own? Because choosing between these two speakers is mostly a question of bass performance, and I personally prefer using subs for that so I would vote BMR. But they need a stand, which depending on your tastes (cost) could make a case for the Slims.

 

[j_garcia]

For me, pretty much if it will not be a music only system, I almost always go with bookshelf speakers. I also tend to go with the larger ones and a good sub. For a music only system, I will almost always go with a tower, but that may still include a sub.

 

[KEW]

For me, pretty much if it will not be a music only system, I almost always go with bookshelf speakers. I also tend to go with the larger ones and a good sub. For a music only system, I will almost always go with a tower, but that may still include a sub.

Interesting!
I know you have deep experience.
Can you give an explanation of why BS for music/HT and tower for music only?
At first I thought you did not want to integrate a sub into you music only system, but your last clause nixed that!

 

[KEW]

One factor to consider is the nature of the surface (wall) behind your speakers.
I had Phil3's set up with a wall behind them that had a alcove (mini-hall-way with doors to half guest bath and master bedroom) of about 4' wide and 3' deep. The speakers never sounded so clear as they should have in this location.
I assume it was a matter of the open back speakers and the inconsistency of the reflections because of this pocket. When moved to a more conventional location with a consistent wall behind them, they sound absolutely wonderful!

 

[j_garcia]

Interesting!
I know you have deep experience.
Can you give an explanation of why BS for music/HT and tower for music only?
At first I thought you did not want to integrate a sub into you music only system, but your last clause nixed that!

I would mainly listen without, but after having bigger subs for so long, you get used to that powerful bass lol. It isn't a must, but the last 2ch setup ended up having a sub too.

 

[Alex2507]

I'd be after the towers just to not need stands and they have a smaller footprint.

 

[j_garcia]

But I kept my stands and have had like 5 sets of speakers on them...

 

[Mangoman]

Im going to go listen to a bunch of stuff today....
The showroom has Paradigm, KEF, Sonance, SVS and B&W on display. Going to look at both Bookshelf sized and some smaller floor standing designs. As much as these Phils look awesome, I have learned a few things from past purchases I have done (Guitar player and buying/selling amps based on specs/reviews, etc), Im exercising supreme self control and not jumping on "great deals" that I run across. Im definitely taking my time and going to listen to everything and make my decision with my ears, and less on impulse. Something I think Ive prided myself on making quick decisions (With my wife...) but sometimes it gets you in trouble. I don't want to buy and sell some thing after getting it and having some "I wonder how....." type questions.

Other amps they have are McIntosh, Rotel, Marantz, Anthem, Parasound, Bryston and integra. Ill make a decision for that based off pricing. My benchmark right now is the McIntosh MX121/122 and the MC205. So, if i can find something that sounds just as good to my ears for less, Im all ver it and not going to succumb to the blue meters.....

Im going for strong music and a great HT application. Staying with 5.1 type of setup.
Any other suggestions??

 

[Swerd]

Im going to go listen to a bunch of stuff today....
The showroom has Paradigm, KEF, Sonance, SVS and B&W on display.

Bring music you know well. Listen to it as you compare the speakers.

Be sure to listen to how well a speaker reproduces male and female human voices uncluttered by music.

All those brands you mentioned, sold through dealerships, will have a much greater price markup than speakers sold internet direct such as Philharmonic. It can make comparing by price range confusing. For example, the KEF LS50 is a very good sounding bookshelf speaker that retails for $1500. It, however, cannot compare to the BMR Philharmonitor which is close in price.

Other amps they have are McIntosh, Rotel, Marantz, Anthem, Parasound, Bryston and integra. Ill make a decision for that based off pricing. My benchmark right now is the McIntosh MX121/122 and the MC205. So, if i can find something that sounds just as good to my ears for less, Im all ver it and not going to succumb to the blue meters...

Make your speaker choice separate from your amplifier choice. Some dealers will try to steer you to the more expensive amp brands because they make a larger profit selling them. Don't let them manipulate you.

You mentioned you play guitar, but I don't remember if you said electric or acoustic guitar. Guitar amplifiers often produce highly colored sound, and are considered an important part of an instrument's sound. In home audio (music or HT), sound reproduction should be as accurate and uncolored as possible. This is may be quite different from your experience with guitar amplifiers. In home audio, spending extra money on speakers may be worthwhile, but not so much for amps. An amp should be clean, uncolored in sound, and powerful enough to easily drive the speakers you choose. It should not be thought of as a tone control.

 

[Mangoman]

You mentioned you play guitar, but I don't remember if you said electric or acoustic guitar. Guitar amplifiers often produce highly colored sound, and are considered an important part of an instrument's sound. In home audio (music or HT), sound reproduction should be as accurate and uncolored as possible. This is may be quite different from your experience with guitar amplifiers. In home audio, spending extra money on speakers may be worthwhile, but not so much for amps. An amp should be clean, uncolored in sound, and powerful enough to easily drive the speakers you choose. It should not be thought of as a tone control.

I play electric, and yep, totally understand how one amp sounds this way with that guitar, but that guitar through another amp is another story....and don't get me started on pedals!!!

Any good list as to amps that don't color anything at all from a home standpoint? Im definitely leaning right now towards those philharmonic speakers, but gosh, id love to hear them too. as for amps go, I'm wide open but do have that appreciation for McIntosh (Dad had one). I did see a great deal on a Classe Sigma SSP and matching amp but I need to hear it. I guess I was told those (in their opinion) were not as smooth as a McIntosh, but they thought it was just as open but more immediate...more bite. That sounds like coloring the sound in my terms.

And yes, Ive got both streaming songs and CDs to bring. I got that advice from someone here too. GREAT advice!!! Sort of like when I go amp shopping, I bring my guitar, cables and a pedal or two.

 

[Swerd]

Any good list as to amps that don't color anything at all from a home standpoint? Im definitely leaning right now towards those philharmonic speakers, but gosh, id love to hear them too. as for amps go, I'm wide open but do have that appreciation for McIntosh (Dad had one). I did see a great deal on a Classe Sigma SSP and matching amp but I need to hear it. I guess I was told those (in their opinion) were not as smooth as a McIntosh, but they thought it was just as open but more immediate...more bite. That sounds like coloring the sound in my terms.

You said you're interested in 5.1 home theater. For that, I stick with Denon, Marantz, or Yamaha in the power range suggested for the speakers you choose. For brands such as McIntosh, Classe, or others, you'll pay a very high price just for their brand name. Their performance isn't worth it.

If you do choose BMR Philharmonitors, you should consider them for the front left & right channels. Ask Dennis Murphy what amplifier power range he would recommend for BMRs. He will be genuinely agnostic about specific brand names. Also, ask Dennis what he suggests for a center channel speaker In HT, the center channel's main job is to reproduce the human voice – as in the dialog. For rear channel speakers, you can save money and get a pair of Philharmonic Affordable Accuracy monitors.

I have to be honest here. I've been a Dennis Murphy fanboy since I met him and first heard his speakers in 2004. I've owned or built several of his designs. i happen to like the way he 'voices' his speakers, with a neutral tone balance with a very widely dispersed sound that creates excellent imaging in stereo. Speakers like Paradigm, KEF, Sonance, SVS and B&W, priced similar to what Dennis sells, in my opinion, don't have a chance of bettering his designs. Some can sound good, but will cost more.

 

[herbu]

For me, pretty much if it will not be a music only system, I almost always go with bookshelf speakers. I also tend to go with the larger ones and a good sub. For a music only system, I will almost always go with a tower, but that may still include a sub.

I have similar thinking, and here's why.

For TV/movies, (things in 5.1 or 7.1), there IS that Low Frequency Effect channel, and the crossover of the "normal" bass frequencies does not seem as critical. With a competent sub or subs, I think you and your AVR can manage the bass crossover adequately.

For music, the bass transitions are more critical. By "bass transitions" I mean the sound moving from driver to driver... like from the tweeter to the midrange, then the mid to the woofer, and the woofer to the subwoofer.

A good speaker designer understands these transitions FAR better than I. Even a lousy designer knows more than I. The designer accommodates these transitions via both the cabinet and crossover design. There is NO way I think I can do a better job by getting a subwoofer and managing the crossover with the AVR myself. So I would much prefer to get a full range speaker for music, and utilize the expertise of the speaker designer.

That's why I have my Left/Right speakers setup as "Large". In stereo mode, (music), my 2 very capable subwoofers are silent. Because of my reasoning above, I did go with the legend Dennis Murphy for my Left/Right. (OK... maybe he's not really a legend, but he is highly regarded.)

I tell people I've only done 2 smart things in my life.
1) Married my wife.
2) Let her handle our household budget.
The truth is, I did another smart thing. That is to let Dennis Murphy handle the design of my bass crossover for music within his Phil 3s, rather than try to do it myself with the Denon and subwoofers.