Phase Technology speaker repair

[Robert Ash]

I have a house full of Phase Technology in-wall CI-60 Series IV speakers that I have not used in years. Recently I connected my iPhone to my receiver and the speakers in every room sounded bad--there was noise on top of the music. These speakers are vintage 1992, i.e., 25 years old. I would rather repair them than replace them (10 of them) just considering the cost, if they are repairable. I'm wondering if there is a component--a cap say--in the crossover net that has gone bad in all of them. Any suggestions?

 

[TLS Guy]

I have a house full of Phase Technology in-wall CI-60 Series IV speakers that I have not used in years. Recently I connected my iPhone to my receiver and the speakers in every room sounded bad--there was noise on top of the music. These speakers are vintage 1992, i.e., 25 years old. I would rather repair them than replace them (10 of them) just considering the cost, if they are repairable. I'm wondering if there is a component--a cap say--in the crossover net that has gone bad in all of them. Any suggestions?

I highly doubt the problem is the speakers. It would be highly unlikely all those speakers have failed. Speakers are passive and can not generate noise on their own.

It is much more likely there is something wrong with your hook up if it is truly added noise. If it is buzz or distortion then the speakers may well have gone bad.

Have you looked at a speaker? The only possible way all speakers could fail is if the speakers have foam edge surrounds, that have rotted out. I did manage to find a picture of your speakers and it looks to me as if the edge surround on the woofers is foam.

So the first thing to do is inspect the speakers. If they have foam and it is rotted see if Simply Speakers has the surrounds for them. This is something you can do yourself if you are handy. Unfortunately Orange County Speakers who used to have a lot of parts and do this kind of work have recently ceased trading.

I can recommend Simply Speakers for parts or parts and repair. They do not have Phase Tech on their parts list. If the foam has rotted, then contact them and see of there is a standard size that will fit your speakers. If not you will need to replace them. I can tell you all those crossovers would not have failed.

 

[Robert Ash]

Thanks. Awesome insight. Now that I inspect the speakers it's clear--the foam surround has cracks in it and has rotted. I went to Simply Speakers and watched videos on replacing the foam surround--it looks straightforward enough. One thing that does appear different from the cones I saw in various videos is my cones are filled with what looks to be styrofoam. The styrofoam fills the cone to the brim and is covered by some felt. So rather than gluing the foam surround to a cone, it looks like I'm going to be gluing it to styrofoam. I browsed quite a few videos and didn't see this type of construction. Any comments?

 

[lovinthehd]

Pics!

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks. Awesome insight. Now that I inspect the speakers it's clear--the foam surround has cracks in it and has rotted. I went to Simply Speakers and watched videos on replacing the foam surround--it looks straightforward enough. One thing that does appear different from the cones I saw in various videos is my cones are filled with what looks to be styrofoam. The styrofoam fills the cone to the brim and is covered by some felt. So rather than gluing the foam surround to a cone, it looks like I'm going to be gluing it to styrofoam. I browsed quite a few videos and didn't see this type of construction. Any comments?

Oh dear. That may be a problem. Styrofoam does not take glue at all well. I suspect the Styrofoam was sprayed on after the surrounds were glued. So you may have to soak the edge in alcohol to denature the glue holding the Styrofoam. After soaking on alcohol for 20 to 30 min the glue holding the Styrofoam will likely denature.

There was a brief vogue for spraying Styrofoam onto speaker cones. It was a very bad idea, as Styrofoam has a violent internal resonance at 1200 Hz and makes for a lousy speaker cone. You might want to seriously consider replacement, as those units may not be worth the trouble. They were also a rolled surround I noticed, so a replacement surround may not be available. If you do find the surrounds you will get to do this all over again in a few years.

 

[Robert Ash]

Given 10 of these speakers needing this repair, I concluded I could replace the surrounds at ~$8 apiece, plus ~ an hour of my time per; or I could replace the woofers at ~ $40 apiece. I've ordered a pair of woofers and a pair of surrounds for starters. The replacement woofers have a poly mica cone and a rubber surround. Assuming replacing the woofers takes care of the problem and meets with good results, I'll likely just pay the extra $320 and replace them all. This still beats replacing the complete in-wall units by hundreds if not thousands (based on list price). And hopefully the new woofers with rubber surrounds will last a long time. Thanks for the guidance.

 

[TLS Guy]

Given 10 of these speakers needing this repair, I concluded I could replace the surrounds at ~$8 apiece, plus ~ an hour of my time per; or I could replace the woofers at ~ $40 apiece. I've ordered a pair of woofers and a pair of surrounds for starters. The replacement woofers have a poly mica cone and a rubber surround. Assuming replacing the woofers takes care of the problem and meets with good results, I'll likely just pay the extra $320 and replace them all. This still beats replacing the complete in-wall units by hundreds if not thousands (based on list price). And hopefully the new woofers with rubber surrounds will last a long time. Thanks for the guidance.

Are the speakers designed specifically as replacements for the original woofers? If they are I would replace all the woofers. The originals sound like a nightmare to me.

 

[Robert Ash]

Okay, again your simple reply reveals my ignorance. I guess I don't really have good reason to believe the replacements I ordered are a match for the originals. I based my decision on the size (6.5"), and ordered the best of three choices offered at Simply Speakers for replacement woofers. I knew enough to order 8 ohm replacements, as the originals were 8 ohm. What other spec's should I have ensured matched.

 

[Robert Ash]

The original woofers are what Phase Technology called back in the day "RPF Solid Piston". The styrofoam constituting the solid I guess. ;-)

 

[TLS Guy]

Okay, again your simple reply reveals my ignorance. I guess I don't really have good reason to believe the replacements I ordered are a match for the originals. I based my decision on the size (6.5"), and ordered the best of three choices offered at Simply Speakers for replacement woofers. I knew enough to order 8 ohm replacements, as the originals were 8 ohm. What other spec's should I have ensured matched.

The problem is that all drivers are very different. They have different Thiel/Small parameters and acoustic responses. Of concern to you is the sensitivity and roll off of the drivers. The chance of the woofers your ordered having the same sensitivity as the originals are remote. So the balance of woofer and tweeter will be upset. In addition the impedance curve and the acoustic response of the drivers will almost certainly be very different. This means that the crossover will work very differently with the new woofers.

If you just want noise in the home then using any old driver will work, assuming it will fit. You almost certainly will have to modify the enclosure.

If you want decent sound, you have to repair your woofers or start from scratch. To me those speakers seem like really rough units. Using Polystyrene is a very bad idea except for woofers and then they need to be crossed at 400 Hz. That is too low to cross to a tweeter.

The only polystyrene driver that was any good is the redoubtable KEF 139 woofer. That is a good driver, but you have to make sure it is at least 24 db down by 900 Hz or there is Hell to pay. So that means it is only any good as part of a three way speaker system.

I have not heard your drivers so somehow they might have got away with it. There are a couple of drivers that I have had experience with, an old mid that Wharfedale put out and a midwoofer by Leak. Not good. In addition Polystyrene degrades over time. KEF solved this by cladding the Polystyrene is stout aluminum foil. They hold up well.

If you want to salvage these replace the surrounds on a couple of drivers and see if you like them. If not the recycling center is the place where they belong. Unless these units are something special I would not be going to the trouble of salvaging them knowing that it would likely not be the last time I had the hassle of refoaming 10 drivers. But that is up to you.

 

[Robert Ash]

Ok, now I just feel stupid. I should have known better. I have engineering and physics degrees, but I'm not an audiophile and given a career in digital semiconductors, am clearly little more than a laymen in this area. After 10 minutes on Wikipedia perusing the basics, I realize how naive I've been and have a bit of studying to do to catch up. But it's the work week and I've limited time til the weekend, so it'll have to wait. I doubt I'm going to be able to find the specs on the original woofers--all I could find from the original brochure was the frequency response (45-20kHz) and the recommended amplifier power (10-70W) for the complete 2-way speaker. Not the sensitivity or roll off of the individual drivers. This weekend I'll start over, post some pics, and try again. I'm not ready to shell out $400 x 10 to get sound in my house again now that I've figured out how to get my music from my iPhone to my Yamaha RX-V870 receiver.

 

[TLS Guy]

Ok, now I just feel stupid. I should have known better. I have engineering and physics degrees, but I'm not an audiophile and given a career in digital semiconductors, am clearly little more than a laymen in this area. After 10 minutes on Wikipedia perusing the basics, I realize how naive I've been and have a bit of studying to do to catch up. But it's the work week and I've limited time til the weekend, so it'll have to wait. I doubt I'm going to be able to find the specs on the original woofers--all I could find from the original brochure was the frequency response (45-20kHz) and the recommended amplifier power (10-70W) for the complete 2-way speaker. Not the sensitivity or roll off of the individual drivers. This weekend I'll start over, post some pics, and try again. I'm not ready to shell out $400 x 10 to get sound in my house again now that I've figured out how to get my music from my iPhone to my Yamaha RX-V870 receiver.

You don't need to shell out $400 X 10 for in wall speakers. These speakers have a good reputation.
They are currently out of stock. Monoprice are a good outfit and I bet they will be back in stock. So you can have replacements, which I bet will be better then what you have for $45 X10. May be that will cheer you up?

This is the one I recommend for you.

 

[slipperybidness]

You don't need to shell out $400 X 10 for in wall speakers. These speakers have a good reputation.
They are currently out of stock. Monoprice are a good outfit and I bet they will be back in stock. So you can have replacements, which I bet will be better then what you have for $45 X10. May be that will cheer you up?

This is the one I recommend for you.

You think those may be rebadged from some other vendor? Or MP OEM all the way?

I've seen MANY MP products that are simply rebadges, and at a considerable discount over the "name brand".

 

[TLS Guy]

You think those may be rebadged from some other vendor? Or MP OEM all the way?

I've seen MANY MP products that are simply rebadges, and at a considerable discount over the "name brand".

I have no idea. Other members have posted, including a pro installer that they are very adequate for their intended purpose.

 

[slipperybidness]

I have no idea. Other members have posted, including a pro installer that they are very adequate for their intended purpose.

I'm not surprised. Overall, I've been pleased with my MP purchases.

Some of their RCA cables are a bit tight for some of my gear, that's about the only complaint I could have.

 

[christopher frost]

Hello guys and galls , first off I would check You're receivers input impedence requirements as in high impedence or low impedence and don't stop there actually look up the min and max impedence and voltage and also if You can find it You're phones output power/volts because if phone is'nt within the receivers range it will sound crappy with distortion at a fairly low volume leaving You thinking all kinds of problems like speakers must be the problem which probably are in need of something . I believe Parts Express has pairs of in ceiling/wall speakers 8" woofers and 1" tweeters that handle as much power or more than MUCH more expensive units and have a wider frequency response and better sensitivity for something like 60/pr.