PB2000 or VTF3 MK5HP ... Edit: Or ???

C

Conck

Audiophyte
Please keep this simple, I've done a lot of research (obviously not enough lol)and I've narrowed it down to these two. I have a 1800 cubic ft room and like it loud, around -12, sometimes -8. It's 90/10 movies/music.

I recently had a PB1000 that I returned to SVS because I wanted more. One of SVSs authorized retailers offered me a great deal on a new PB2000 for $664 shipped. Of course the HSU is roughly $870 shipped right now. I'm not sure how much "peak" power abilities play a role but the SVS is 1100 watts and the HSU claims 2000 watts. Big difference, especially since they are only rated 100 watt difference as far as RMS is concerned. I'm pretty confident the 15" HSU would outperform the 12" SVS, what I'm not sure about is if it's worth that much extra coin, especially if you consider the better warranty from SVS. To get the same warranty from HSU that's another $70 making the price difference roughly $270.

I'm fine spending the extra money on the HSU if it's worth it in performance?

Thanks for any help
 
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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Both are good subs. If you like it loud, I would go for the VTF-3. Above 30 Hz, you are looking at nearly double the output. Don't worry about amplifier power, it doesn't mean much.
 
C

Conck

Audiophyte
Both are good subs. If you like it loud, I would go for the VTF-3. Above 30 Hz, you are looking at nearly double the output. Don't worry about amplifier power, it doesn't mean much.
16-30hz is about the same output? Double the output at 30hz and above means what, an extra 3db? Sorry I'm in the learning stage.

Thanks for the help and quick response!
 
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j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Most audio will have more content above 30Hz, vs. very little in the under 25Hz range on average. So the bump in output in the range that is more common should be a benefit. Soundwise, both of these are going to be excellent subs.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
16-30hz is about the same output? Double the output at 30hz and above means what, an extra 3db? Sorry I'm in the learning stage.

Thanks for the help and quick response!
It looks to me like the VTF-3 will have only a little bit more output or similar output from 16 to 20 but a more substantial margin from 25 to 30. Above that, the VTF-3 will have a lot more output. The SVS subs do deep bass very well for their price and specs, but their mid bass output isn't extraordinary (that isn't to say its bad either). The Hsu sub is more expensive, but the performance is definitely a step up.

Doubling the output (amplitude) is a 6 dB difference. Doubling the power intensity is a 3 dB difference.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
VTF will also be flexible, it could be used as sealed, allowing it be very musical and tight. SVS PB2000 is also nice sub, but doesn't have such flexibility. Also VTF3 will be suitable to used in larger spaces should you choose to move
 
C

Conck

Audiophyte
Thanks guys, the input is appreciated.

If the SVS wasn't discounted it would of been a no brainer, but for $664 it made me think twice and question the cost difference.

Clearly everyone thinks the extra $270 for the VTF is worth it. Good enough for me
 
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C

Conck

Audiophyte
It looks to me like the VTF-3 will have only a little bit more output or similar output from 16 to 20 but a more substantial margin from 25 to 30. Above that, the VTF-3 will have a lot more output. The SVS subs do deep bass very well for their price and specs, but their mid bass output isn't extraordinary (that isn't to say its bad either). The Hsu sub is more expensive, but the performance is definitely a step up.

Doubling the output (amplitude) is a 6 dB difference. Doubling the power intensity is a 3 dB difference.
Just curious, everyone raves about dual subs, would having dual PB2000s achieve the same mid bass as a single VTF3? Or would the PBs still lack from 25hz and up? I realize dual VTF3s would of course trump dual PBs, but financially speaking its not an option.

Not exactly sure how running duals equates?
 
tyhjaarpa

tyhjaarpa

Audioholic Field Marshall
I would get the VTF-3 mk5 and possibly add another later on the road if you feel you need more / more even response.
 
C

Conck

Audiophyte
Well as much as I tried to avoid the rabbit hole I stumbled and fell in head first :eek:

Ok, so you guys convinced me the mid bass advantages of the HSU was worthy of the extra coin. After adding in the extended warranty on the amp (not sure it's necessary?) It bumps up the cost of the VTF3 to $942 or just $7 less then the PSA 15v. So I figured I'd call PSA and discuss my room and listening habits. After speaking to Tom he told me the 15v is out of stock but if I were willing to wait two weeks he would give me $50 off this weekend, so $899 shipped. Of course PSA gives me the same 5 year warranty as SVS, plus a 60 day in home trial.

Tom was a pleasure to talk to and very patient as well as honest. I told him I was considering the VTF3 and he flat out told me the VTF3 would be a great choice and I couldn't go wrong with either sub.

So yes, I'll ask, any other options I need to consider under $1k?
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Just curious, everyone raves about dual subs, would having dual PB2000s achieve the same mid bass as a single VTF3? Or would the PBs still lack from 25hz and up? I realize dual VTF3s would of course trump dual PBs, but financially speaking its not an option.

Not exactly sure how running duals equates?
Just curious, everyone raves about dual subs, would having dual PB2000s achieve the same mid bass as a single VTF3? Or would the PBs still lack from 25hz and up? I realize dual VTF3s would of course trump dual PBs, but financially speaking its not an option.

Not exactly sure how running duals equates?
I am biased and and I think dual (stereo) sub is inherently better. Why not call SVS for further discount for the dual sub option? Also, do any of the 3 look better to you, or you don't care about their looks?
 
C

Conck

Audiophyte
I am biased and and I think dual (stereo) sub is inherently better. Why not call SVS for further discount for the dual sub option? Also, do any of the 3 look better to you, or you don't care about their looks?
SVS wouldn't match the $664. While I understand dual subs are the way to go, I was told it won't change the fact that SVS lacks (at least in the lower PB models) output from 30hz and up. The HSU and PSA do a much better job across all frequencies is my understanding?

As far as astethitics go, yeah I probably prefer the height of the PB but I'm ok with any of the 3.

Thanks for your input
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
SVS wouldn't match the $664. While I understand dual subs are the way to go, I was told it won't change the fact that SVS lacks (at least in the lower PB models) output from 30hz and up. The HSU and PSA do a much better job across all frequencies is my understanding?

As far as astethitics go, yeah I probably prefer the height of the PB but I'm ok with any of the 3.

Thanks for your input
There is also the option of using two SB2000.

http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/sv-sound-svs-sb-pb-2000

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/svs-sb-2000-and-pb-2000-subwoofers-test-bench#BgUmD2A87epreQb8.97
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Dual subs are better, but only if you have the freedom to place them where they compliment each other for the best response. If so, you might take a look at a couple VTF-2s or a couple RBH I-12s. Two VTF-2s would cost a bit more than a VTF-3, but they will surpass it a bit in deep bass, match the mid bass, but the biggest benefit is a more neutral frequency response- but only with good placement for a better response. By the way, frequency response is by far the largest determinate in sound quality in bass.
 
C

Conck

Audiophyte
Dual subs are better, but only if you have the freedom to place them where they compliment each other for the best response. If so, you might take a look at a couple VTF-2s or a couple RBH I-12s. Two VTF-2s would cost a bit more than a VTF-3, but they will surpass it a bit in deep bass, match the mid bass, but the biggest benefit is a more neutral frequency response- but only with good placement for a better response. By the way, frequency response is by far the largest determinate in sound quality in bass.
I had previously considered the VTF2 but I read several complaints about port chuffing while running in single port mode due to the small 3" port. If running duals would they be better served running both ports open?

I need to find the measurements of the PB1000 and compare. I would also like to see the test results measured from the same distance, seems like some are at 2 meters and some from 1 meter.

Thanks for all your help Shady
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I had previously considered the VTF2 but I read several complaints about port chuffing while running in single port mode due to the small 3" port. If running duals would they be better served running both ports open?

I need to find the measurements of the PB1000 and compare. I would also like to see the test results measured from the same distance, seems like some are at 2 meters and some from 1 meter.

Thanks for all your help Shady
None of these ported subs are immune to port chuffing. The VTF-2 is no more likely to chuff than any of the others mentioned in this thread. And if you really want to stay away from chuffing, use all ports open on any variable tuned subwoofer. As for the PB1000, there really isn't a good set of measurements out there. I would guess you can take the PB2000 measurements and subtract 3 dB from them, and that will be its ball park performance, maybe. You can ask SVS, they may not tell you the exact numbers, but they probably will give you ball park comparisons with their other products.

As for 1 meter vs 2 meters, those measurements can be equally converted. As distance is halved, so is amplitude, so subtract 6 dB to go from 1 meter to 2 meters. Conversely, add 6 dB to go from 2 meters to one meter. You have to also keep in mind RMS vs peak output. Most testers who do 2 meter testing use RMS. Most testers who report data at 1 meter use peak. The difference is 3 dB, so any measurements you see reported in peak, just subtract 3 dB to make them comparable to RMS measurements.
 
C

Conck

Audiophyte
None of these ported subs are immune to port chuffing. The VTF-2 is no more likely to chuff than any of the others mentioned in this thread. And if you really want to stay away from chuffing, use all ports open on any variable tuned subwoofer. As for the PB1000, there really isn't a good set of measurements out there. I would guess you can take the PB2000 measurements and subtract 3 dB from them, and that will be its ball park performance, maybe. You can ask SVS, they may not tell you the exact numbers, but they probably will give you ball park comparisons with their other products.

As for 1 meter vs 2 meters, those measurements can be equally converted. As distance is halved, so is amplitude, so subtract 6 dB to go from 1 meter to 2 meters. Conversely, add 6 dB to go from 2 meters to one meter. You have to also keep in mind RMS vs peak output. Most testers who do 2 meter testing use RMS. Most testers who report data at 1 meter use peak. The difference is 3 dB, so any measurements you see reported in peak, just subtract 3 dB to make them comparable to RMS measurements.
I really appreciate your help and patience! Thank you
 
LAB3

LAB3

Senior Audioholic
Go BIG on a sub for that size room, I know cost may hurt the budget but after I hooked my my SVS PB 13 Ultra I moved my two smaller Klipsch subs to the bedroom system. If you want to really feel the movies and have a sub you can close the ports on for music, the SVS PB 13 Ultra is hard to beat. There are others too so pick one that goes DEEP and is adjustable. Good Luck as there so many really good subs now.
 
C

Conck

Audiophyte
Go BIG on a sub for that size room, I know cost may hurt the budget but after I hooked my my SVS PB 13 Ultra I moved my two smaller Klipsch subs to the bedroom system. If you want to really feel the movies and have a sub you can close the ports on for music, the SVS PB 13 Ultra is hard to beat. There are others too so pick one that goes DEEP and is adjustable. Good Luck as there so many really good subs now.
My room is pretty small, only 1800 cubic feet. But I hear you on getting as much sub as possible, for me that would be the VTF3.5 or PSA 15v
 
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