Overkill for my Small Room? - Advice Needed

[Conor Fitzpatrick]

Hi All,

I'm in the market for a new sub and have been looking at the following models (budget is <$1000):

-Rythmik LV12R
-SVS PB-2000
-HSU VTF-3 MK5

This would be to pair with my speaker system which consists of:

-Yamaha V677 Receiver
-Pioneer SP-FS52-LR (L + R Towers)
-Pioneer SP-C22 (Center)
-Pioneer SP-BS22-LR (L + R Surrounds)

My room is 13.5ft x 10.5ft x 8ft, but in reality is more like 11.5 since there is a closet in the room. I've attached a map for reference.

Mainly I use the system the play movies and video game, but would also like to listen to music - a 45/45/10 split I'd say. My current sub is an old Klipsch and is quite weak. I'm looking for something that I can feel in my chest, but is also tight and clear.

I know out of the three I selected that HSU would be the best performance-wise, but due to it's size (and the SVS too) it would jutt out by 6 inches or so in front of the R tower speaker if I placed it where the old sub currently sits.

I'm leaning towards the HSU because I know at some point I will move and eventually get a bigger theater room. Also, I'd rather spend a little more now to have something that won't need to be replaced when I eventually upgrade the rest of the speakers.

That leads to my question, is the HSU right for my current set up knowing the limited placement options (it will fit in that corner and I did the bass crawl with my current sub finding that location did indeed have the best bass) and the speakers/receiver it would be paired with?

Thank you in advance for any input!

 

[j_garcia]

There is no such thing as overkill with a sub.

 

[Conor Fitzpatrick]

Thanks for the reply. Do you see any problem with the placement ie that it will jutt out in front of the tower a bit?

 

[Steve81]

One additional option to consider:
http://reaction-audio.myshopify.com/products/gamma-18?variant=1107645869

Reaction also recently bumped up their perks package, and is now offering a 45 day risk free trial (except for a couple of their largest subs), and a 5 year bumper to bumper warranty. Either it or the Hsu would be a fun ride in your room.

 

[brett10293]

Up your budget a bit and get the HSU VTF-15h MK2. You won't be disappointed. I think I paid $1100 after tax and shipping. I have mine in the corner behind the TV so it's out of site, but once you hear it, you'll get over the fact that it sticks out past your towers. Is it overkill?? Absolutely. In a sense, it's the dumbest thing I've ever bought. But it's freaking AWESOME. I have the volume control set to about 10:00 and I lowered the sub volume on the receiver to -8. At those settings, you can feel it in your chest and it literally shakes the couch. In short, the sub isn't doing half of what it's designed to do and I can rattle the neighbor's windows whenever I want. You will probably have to dampen anything 'loose' in the room (blinds, pictures on walls, etc), but that's easy. Trust me, if you're content to spend a grand, spend the extra $100.

 

[j_garcia]

Jutting out will not be an issue; it won't interfere with the sound of the towers at all. I raised my 52s about 1" from their pedestals with some plastic standoffs and longer screws if you need additional height.

 

[agarwalro]

A couple more options,

http://reaction-audio.myshopify.com/collections/subwoofers/products/gamma-15

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/subwoofers/products/xv15se

This one's out of stock, but, worth mention.

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-rs1202a-1000-watt-dual-12-subwoofer-system-assembled--300-767

 

[jliedeka]

I use a Hsu VTF 3.3 in a slightly larger room. I get amazing extension while using a fraction of the power available.

Jim

 

[Conor Fitzpatrick]

Wow guys, lots of responses! I really appreciate all the advice!

I'm very intrigued by the Reaction Audio subs. The in home free trial is really appealing, it's a bummer HSU doesn't offer it with the free shipping because I'd love to audition both at the same time.

Why are you guys recommending the sealed models (Gamma) vs ported ones (Echo) for Reaction Audio? I thought as a rule of thumb ported is better for HT? While I do plan on playing music, I mostly would be using it with movies and video games.

Thanks again!!

 

[j_garcia]

Many here seem to gravitate toward sealed, including myself. You give up some extension, but the clean sound is the trade off benefit. With the VTF subs, you get to choose which you prefer when you want.

 

[Steve81]

Why are you guys recommending the sealed models (Gamma) vs ported ones (Echo) for Reaction Audio? I thought as a rule of thumb ported is better for HT? While I do plan on playing music, I mostly would be using it with movies and video games.

For a room that runs a tad over 1000 cubic feet, I'd definitely go with sealed. The why is a little more complicated, but this article goes over some of the details.

The TLDR version: in smaller spaces, you should get a fair amount of cabin gain to boost the low end. With a good sealed sub, you could conceivably end up with useful extension into the single digits. OTOH, a ported sub that exhibits flat response outdoors down to 20Hz or below will end up bottom heavy in room, and need EQ to pad down. In addition, since ported subs exhibit a fairly steep rolloff below tune, they can't take advantage of cabin gain in the same way a sealed sub can.

 

[shadyJ]

It is often recommended to get sealed for small rooms, but I think it still makes sense to get ported as well. The low end boost can be a lot of fun, to be honest, and its easy to tame with any room correction if you don't like it. Also, yes sealed can get a low end boost from pressure vessel gain, but ported will still have a much easier time reproducing deep bass over sealed. Remember that you need a lot of deep bass output for it to make a serious difference at all. A sub like the Hsu VTF subs can deal with low end boost pretty easy with the Q control and variable tuning. You can basically turn that boost on or off, and I bet a lot of people would prefer it on for movie night.

I would only go sealed if I had a lot of displacement, ie multiple 15"s or better, or I only intended to use the system for music and so didn't care about stuff under 30 Hz.

 

[rnatalli]

A VTF-15 MK2 would probably give you a heart attack in a room that size. The black one is $899 plus $109 shipping for a total of $1,008. Another option is the Rythmik FVX15 for $999. As for sealed, HSU has MK2 of the ULS-15 coming out which might be interesting.

 

[KEW]

The low end boost can be a lot of fun, to be honest, and its easy to tame with any room correction if you don't like it.

In my experience, room correction does not do a very good job of taming this at all!
I know Audyssey XT 32 won't! In a small room like his, the bass will be mush. Many of the games I know have an on-going sound track with a fair amount of bass. He will just get an annoying mush of the low end. The fact that he plays bass establishes he has a sense of what it should sound like!

 

[jliedeka]

My ported Hsu gives me pretty clean bass. I do have bass traps and padded furniture to soak up some of the excess.

You probably won't go wrong with sealed but I can definitely tell you the extension is awesome with the Hsu. That Saint-Saens organ piece that goes down to 16 Hz makes me queasy even when I don't play it too loud. You can feel the bass from movie soundtracks, too.

I'm sure all the subs mentioned would work, all I can really add is I _know_ the Hsu can work.

Jim

 

[KEW]

My ported Hsu gives me pretty clean bass. I do have bass traps and padded furniture to soak up some of the excess.

You probably won't go wrong with sealed but I can definitely tell you the extension is awesome with the Hsu. That Saint-Saens organ piece that goes down to 16 Hz makes me queasy even when I don't play it too loud. You can feel the bass from movie soundtracks, too.

I'm sure all the subs mentioned would work, all I can really add is I _know_ the Hsu can work.

Jim

Hsu makes good subs.
But what are the true dimensions
of your room?hwd?
Do you use any eq?
What does it sound like with the bass traps removed?

 

[jliedeka]

My room is 12 x 16 x 8. I usually don't use EQ. I don't remember what it sounded like without bass traps. I've had them for a long time.

Jim

 

[3db]

I own the LV12-R and am very happy with it. Its a very articulate sub with nice tight bass with the ability to dig deep to 19 Hz with authority. For $1200, you can own two and smooth out the bass in the room. Here are some pics of my setup.

 

[Conor Fitzpatrick]

Alright guys, thanks again for all the information. I've decided on going with one of the HSU subs, either the VTF-15h MK2 or the VTF 3 MK5. I really like the idea of the variable tuning system and feel that will help provide the best sound now and in my future (bigger) theater room. I'm leaning towards the VTF-15H ala Brett's advice - if I'm going to spend close to a 1k I'd be crazy not to spend the extra 100 bucks.

Also, KEW, my bass guitar and bass amp don't sound great in this room. Although the problem really is my amp, it simply isn't that good (I play guitar way more) and has always lacked a good clean deep bass tone. It's much more mid-rangey. An EQ pedal has certainly improved things though. That's partly why I liked the idea of the variable tuning system on the HSU.

I demoed a Denon AVR with Audyssey ran the room correction several times. It always sounded like crap so I turned it off and eventually went with the Yamaha I have now. I also don't use the YPAO room correction settings.

 

[Conor Fitzpatrick]

I ended up doing an about face and decided to go with the Gamma 18! After doing some more research and listening to your suggestions, I think the sealed route is better for my room and what I'm looking for in terms of sound (tight clear bass). I will be sure to post some impressions when it arrives!