Opinions on the following bookshelf speakers

[AbyssalLoris]

An upgrade/change cycle has arrived for me and I am looking to obtain a pair of mains. These will be mainly for music (& for whatever else the system needs to do). Will be powered by existing AVR. I'm not too crazy when it comes to exactly what the sound is like (especially as that is so dependent on room/environment, etc). I do prefer the sound to be clear and neutral, or at least not too bright.

My budget allows me to look at the following:

New (prices quoted from Musicdirect):

Focal Chorus 706/806v/807v ($500-720)
Wharfedale Denton (Demo) ($800)
Epos Elan 10 (Demo) ($800)

If you have suggestions for anything uncommon (like the Tekton mini-Lore that I saw someone talking about) in this price category, please put them down here.

Used (quoted from Audiogon):

Totem Rainmaker ($600)
Dali Ikon ($700)
Von Schweikert VR1 ($750)
Vienna Acoustics Hayden Grand ($850)
Dynaudio Excite ($800)
Quad 12L ($725)

I wanted to assemble an interesting bunch and get your ratings/recommendations. Also, anything you have to say about buying on A*gon is appreciated.

 

[slipperybidness]

Philharmonic Audio
Sierra-1 Bamboo Loudspeaker

 

[AbyssalLoris]

After having owned AV123 speakers before and having watched them cease to exist, I am a little soured on the ID brands. Besides, I will probably never buy a pair, listen to them, return them by shipping if unsatisfactory and so on. I think once I buy them, the pain of evaluating and returning will make me rationalize my purchase. However, if people are agreed that the Sierra 1 or the Aperion Verus are so much better than any others listed, I will consider.

I am adding the Philharmonitors to the list of possibilities. I know nothing of Philharmonic Audio. Are they a well known brand? How long have they been around?

As you may notice, I am listing new items that I may have a chance of listening to (& those that are well established brands). The others are used items so the choice doesn't exist, & they generally punch in a higher price category - so I might be willing to take the chance.

 

[zieglj01]

Focal is a good one

 

[ImcLoud]

If you like the looks of the WD dentons, go for it, I bought my set from Music direct and love them, they are warm for sure and they play wonderfully... You will not regret the purchase. I have also heard the epos elans and they are nice too, both them and the wd's are nicer than the focals. Next would be your second list, I would pass on everything listed except maybe the quad 12l's...

Pull the trigger on the dentons, you will love them, plus they are throw backs so never go out of style, I power mine with a topping tp60 and they scream, the low end is impressive for any bookshelf, of course the mids are the best part of the speaker, paired with the warm high end, that remains defined and accurate... just on sexyness alone they are worth the price..

 

[zieglj01]

After having owned AV123 speakers before and having watched them cease to exist, I am a little soured on the ID brands. Besides, I will probably never buy a pair, listen to them, return them by shipping if unsatisfactory and so on. I think once I buy them, the pain of evaluating and returning will make me rationalize my purchase. However, if people are agreed that the Sierra 1 or the Aperion Verus are so much better than any others listed, I will consider.

I am adding the Philharmonitors to the list of possibilities. I know nothing of Philharmonic Audio. Are they a well known brand? How long have they been around?

As you may notice, I am listing new items that I may have a chance of listening to (& those that are well established brands). The others are used items so the choice doesn't exist, & they generally punch in a higher price category - so I might be willing to take the chance.

Dennis Murphy of Philharmonic has been around a long time - he has good ears, and is famous for
speaker crossover works
http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=main.html

No one can speak for your ears - weigh everything out and be sure of your decision

 

[AbyssalLoris]

Point about Philharmonic noted.

Excellent to get your opinions Imcloud. Only question I have is: why do you say pass on the used list? Some of those are pretty well reviewed (from memory). Have you heard any of these? Or do you have some first or second hand knowledge about their relative performance?

Here is Audioholics own review of the VR1 (for starters) from many years ago: Von Schweikert Audio VR-1 Speaker Review | Audioholics
I'm going to go and look for reviews of the others while I continue to get opinions here. From Imcloud's description, the Denton (& the Elan) appear to be speakers I'd like.

 

[ImcLoud]

I have heard the totems not impressed for the cost, the Haydn grand symphonies {not sure if they are the same you are looking at} I have also heard, but I wasn't impressed enough to commit them to memory, besides the tweeter and port were pretty cool if I am remembering the rite speaker.... I havent heard the other 3, so can't really give you an opinion.... The dentons would be my pick, I am a wharfedale fan, but won't recomend something I don't like, I bought a set of jade 5's and don't recomend them to people, since they are a great speaker, but I am not crazy about the high end, also for the price there are better choices.... I am happy with the dentons, and they have something beyond the sound to them, a little bit of classic "soul"....

 

[markw]

Everybody has different tastes. Just because many people like somespeakers doesn't guarantee they will be your cuppa tea.

Even though you list speakers with fine pedigrees and glowing reviews, remember, there are many pretty women that can't keep husbands.

If you buy new from a reputable source, you should be able to return them for the cost of shipping if you find they don't live up to the hype and aren't all you expected/hoped them to be. Speakers are funny that way.

My problem with buying used would be that it's a one way street. Odds are that if you find what you are listening to doesn't meet your expectations, you won't be able to return them. You better be dang sure you're gonna love 'em before pullling the trigger. Here. it really, really pays to have heard them before committing to them. But, in any case, if you don't like 'em, it's still cheaper than a divorce.

 

[tmurnin]

The Focals and Totems both sound great, but for that price I'd go with the Dynaudios

 

[3db]

If you have a PSB dealer near by take a look at these;

Imagine B Bookshelf - PSB Speakers

http://www.psbspeakers.com/content/130123150150-12-019_PSB-Imagine_English_Specifications.pdf

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Of those listed, I would go with either Focal or Dynaudio.

Not listed: Revel, KEF, RBH.

 

[Ponzio]

your budget: any of the Focal models

nudge the budget: KEF LS50's ... go listen to them at a B&M ... best all around bookshelf on the market for the price.

 

[AbyssalLoris]

Revel, RBH, KEF, etc aren't in my budget, people. I'm aware that KEF makes some less expensive stuff too, but I'm suspicious of their quality. As you can guess from the prices of the items indicated, my budget is around $700. For something exceptional, I could stretch it to $850 or so. Less is always welcome, as spillover money can be accumulated for further additions down the line.

In theory, I have no problem with buying used if the condition is good, except that listening to them beforehand becomes a problem. Looks like I'm going to have to find a way to listen to at least some of these. No way I'm going to find some names on that list locally.

So far, some people like Wharfedale/Epos, but not Focal/Totem. Others like Focal/Dynaudio. I'm skipping PSB altogether. At this point, I'm past all the analyzing and bickering about measurements or barely detectable characteristics. Beyond a certain point (of diminishing returns), aesthetics matter too. That is true for me as well as for the wife (big factor). She was just asking me if I couldn't get wireless speakers! PSB doesn't do it for me. Unless their performance stops me dead in my tracks and convinces me other speakers are a joke, they're out.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You can probably get the Revel M12 for about $550 new. I would not consider the Revel Performa series to be "lower" quality.

 

[ImcLoud]

The entire PSB imagine line impressed me, from the minis to the t2's {really nice tower}...

I recently purchased some carnegie csb1's that I like as much as anything you listed... Affordable Audiophile Speakers - CARNEGIE ACOUSTICS you can get a set for less than 1/2 price rite now...

 

[AbyssalLoris]

Now, Imcloud, when you say you weren't impressed by the Totem or the Vienna, are you considering the used price quoted (not the new retail price)? Do you have any experience with Quads? I'm wondering about 5" midrange drivers in some of these. Do you consider them good enough for creating sound with reasonable bass extension in a room about 15x20 or a little smaller? My previous speakers had 6.5" midranges.

 

[slipperybidness]

Revel, RBH, KEF, etc aren't in my budget, people. I'm aware that KEF makes some less expensive stuff too, but I'm suspicious of their quality. As you can guess from the prices of the items indicated, my budget is around $700. For something exceptional, I could stretch it to $850 or so. Less is always welcome, as spillover money can be accumulated for further additions down the line.

In theory, I have no problem with buying used if the condition is good, except that listening to them beforehand becomes a problem. Looks like I'm going to have to find a way to listen to at least some of these. No way I'm going to find some names on that list locally.

So far, some people like Wharfedale/Epos, but not Focal/Totem. Others like Focal/Dynaudio. I'm skipping PSB altogether. At this point, I'm past all the analyzing and bickering about measurements or barely detectable characteristics. Beyond a certain point (of diminishing returns), aesthetics matter too. That is true for me as well as for the wife (big factor). She was just asking me if I couldn't get wireless speakers! PSB doesn't do it for me. Unless their performance stops me dead in my tracks and convinces me other speakers are a joke, they're out.

Just another brand to consider: NHT

 

[AbyssalLoris]

AcuDefTech: I didn't mean low quality about the Revels. I didn't even know there were anything offered by them at that price. I will take a look.

I meant that comment about KEF. Not to suggest that KEF is not of good quality. It's just that I am making certain summary judgments because it is not practically feasible for me to audition hordes of speakers. With a 2 year old, I just don't have the time. What I meant is that when these big boys of the speaker world make lower priced offerings than is customary for them, I tend to suspect the quality of those offerings. I have generally noticed that they appear "cheap". At least in terms of the external fittings. Hard for me to swallow that unless their sound is very noticeably better than their more budget-friendly brethren who offer products at a lower average price. I know that names I have quoted (Focal, Dynaudio, whatnot) also fit this description. But at least visually speaking, their low-end products still seem to have attractive design elements - which suggests to me that they're not saying - "here, we made this cheap thing for you: be glad we're doing it and take what we give you". When I see these, I think it's just cutting corners to make them cheap and preserve the maker's profit margin. I know this is a totally arbitrary way to decide, but hey, I've got to do some filtering or I'll never get to the bottom of it.

 

[AbyssalLoris]

Carnegie: Have seen mention of them before on these pages. I don't see any dealers listed on their website. Do you have a link somewhere? Thanks.