Onkyo TX-8050 vs Denon AVR-2112CI A/V Receiver vs Integra DTM-40.4

[incurablegeek]

Briefly, I am interested in stereo audio only - No video, No games, Just audio.

Setup:
A) 2 Floor-standing Polk audio speakers - rear
B) 2 Wall-mounted Sony bookshelf speakers - front
C) Klipsch subwoofer (300 watt internal amp)

I presently own a brand-new, never been used Denon AVR-2112CI. A/V Receiver, Home Theater Receiver | AVR-2112CI | Denon

I have been playing all day with this Denon and now have Pandora coming out of all 4 speakers and the subwoofer. Unfortunately the sound is extremely disjointed, with a "where the heck did that come from" thumpy bass. Turning off the Klipsch subwoofer makes no difference. Tried adjusting the "small/large", etc. Still awful.

Although ages ago, I built my own tube amps and speakers, times have changed; such that all my past experience is now irrelevant. Recently an AV specialist told me that I had made a wrong purchase with the Denon 2112CI and that I should look for a dedicated stereo unit instead.

Two such units would be:

1) Onkyo TX-8050 Onkyo TX-8050 - Network Stereo Receiver | Model Information | Onkyo USA Home Theater Products

2) and the much more expensive (about what I paid for with the Denon that I now have here) Integra DTM-40.4 (made by Onkyo kind of like Lexus is made by Toyota). Apparently these stereo receiver/amps support two sets of speakers and a subwoofer pre-out. Yikes! Things have changed. Products
All three of these units are networkable, have optical inputs, and subwoofer pre-outs. I need all three. Obviously I also need to control volume, tone and balance (side to side, front to back).

Only two music sources will be used: Pandora internet radio (have an account) and FLAC tunes from one of my many computers (optical connect from HT Omega Claro sound card to receiver/amp or via the wired network).

Question: I have so much money already invested in speakers, computers, cables, etc. that I am willing to bite the bullet on amp/receiver pricing.

Should I put the new/never used Denon up for sale and replace it with the equally expensive Integra or the much cheaper Onkyo. Will either of these two units give me better quality sound and fewer setup headaches than the Denon?

I am about to lose my mind and could really use some help.

​

 

[PENG]

Two such units would be:

1) Onkyo TX-8050 Onkyo TX-8050 - Network Stereo Receiver | Model Information | Onkyo USA Home Theater Products

It sounds like you might have Dynamic EQ and/or Dynamic volume engaged. You should try using Pure Direct mode and see how it sounds.

The 2113 has the following test results, by Home Theater Magazine. The 2112 should do just as good.

HT Labs Measures
Two channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 126.8 watts
1% distortion at 152.1 watts
Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 77.7 watts
1% distortion at 90.8 watts Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 74.3 watts
1% distortion at 84.3 watts

This graph shows that the AVR-2313CI’s left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 126.8 watts and 1 percent distortion at 152.1 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 154.4 watts and 1 percent distortion at 192.5 watts.

I doubt the Onkyo can do 154.4 watts into 4 ohms at 0.1% with two channels driven. I am not talking about dynamic power that Onkyo may claim, but continuous power. When using only 2 channels, the 2112's power supply should have no trouble driving any 8 ohm Polk speakers.

 

[incurablegeek]

It sounds like you might have Dynamic EQ and/or Dynamic volume engaged. You should try using Pure Direct mode and see how it sounds.

Yep, that did help. Now can you believe this? I get nothing out of the Polk floorstanding speakers in the back of the room. I tried the whole Audyssey mike thing (with the only location I will inhabit). I tried varying the distance of the front and rear speakers. Just nothing out of the Polks - only sound is from the Sony wall mounted speakers in the front of the room.

Adjusting the balance - side to side and front to rear is just impossible, without leaping through the many menu options. Same thing with tone. Just no way to adjust it without going through lots of set it and forget it menu options. No flexibility. No control on this Denon.

Oh, and thanks for taking an interest in this problem. Right now I am wishing I had gone with straight two-speaker stereo. That I understand.

 

[PENG]

Yep, that did help. Now can you believe this? I get nothing out of the Polk floorstanding speakers in the back of the room. I tried the whole Audyssey mike thing (with the only location I will inhabit). I tried varying the distance of the front and rear speakers. Just nothing out of the Polks - only sound is from the Sony wall mounted speakers in the front of the room.

Adjusting the balance - side to side and front to rear is just impossible, without leaping through the many menu options. Same thing with tone. Just no way to adjust it without going through lots of set it and forget it menu options. No flexibility. No control on this Denon.

Oh, and thanks for taking an interest in this problem. Right now I am wishing I had gone with straight two-speaker stereo. That I understand.

If all you need is stereo, then selling the 2112 and buy the 8050 may be the right thing to do. I can understand your frustration in having to do so much to setup a 7 channel AVR to function as a two channel stereo unit.

 

[incurablegeek]

If all you need is stereo, then selling the 2112 and buy the 8050 may be the right thing to do.

To be perfectly forthright, I call this the Vietnam Complex. I've gotten so committed to the Denon (investment of time and money) that it's difficult to cut loose from it. I keep hoping for a "happy ending".

Two factors:

1) Even if I do manage to get acceptable sound from the Denon, just altering the balance and tone ends up being a "project" in itself. So a stereo receiver should be easier to deal with - simpler, only the controls I need.

2) Although the Onkyo TX-8050 does support 4 speakers and a sub pre-out, I doubt that it will have enough power to drive the 2 Polks and the 2 Sony's. Quite honestly, I'm not impressed with the Denon having that much power, although it is rated at 90 watts per amp, with I believe each speaker having its own amp (could be wrong and not have set it up that way; true in theory only?)

Bottom line: The sound belching out of the Denon is a whole new definition of "ugly". But will the Onkyo be any better sound quality? And the Integra is just too much of a gamble - sold by retailers only and I know nothing about it.

 

[anamorphic96]

The Onkyo and Integra you link to are the same receiver with same amp section. Aside from a slightly different look and some custom install features they are the same.

I own the Onkyo TX-8050 and it's a great unit for the price. Lots of flexibility and a solid amp section.

 

[incurablegeek]

Peng and Anamoric, I sincerely thank you.

If I learned anything from all this,

1) It's that I am an audiophile. That means Stereo and Two Speakers. Surround sound is wonderful if I want to watch a movie (no sarcasm intended), but surround is not for high-end audio.

2) My knowledge of computers, electronics and audiophile stereo has no transfer value to AV setups.

I feel like a fool. And I like that feeling on occasion. It motivates me to learn and also helps keep my ego in check.

You have all been most patient with me. And people like you make the net my favorite place to be.