Noob with Pioneer 1015-TX-K questions

[mbaylor]

I have had a 2 channel amp for years and years, and I now took the plunge and bought a Pioneer 1015-TX-K. I have a few questions regarding volume levels.

When I play a CD (with my changer) through the system the volume levels seem normal. At about -25db it is fairly loud.

When I play a DVD through the digital coax out I have to turn the volume up significantly to get a reasonable level. (around -10db)

Is this normal? This didn't seem to be an issue with DVDs with my old Kenwood receiever. Is there a sound level difference between digital and analog? I am playing this through a pair of old Kenwood floorstanding speakers. I look to get a full surround setup, but I want to make sure this isn't a receiver issue. Thanks.

 

[mulester7]

I have had a 2 channel amp for years and years, and I now took the plunge and bought a Pioneer 1015-TX-K. I have a few questions regarding volume levels.

When I play a CD (with my changer) through the system the volume levels seem normal. At about -25db it is fairly loud.

When I play a DVD through the digital coax out I have to turn the volume up significantly to get a reasonable level. (around -10db)

Is this normal? This didn't seem to be an issue with DVDs with my old Kenwood receiever. Is there a sound level difference between digital and analog? I am playing this through a pair of old Kenwood floorstanding speakers. I look to get a full surround setup, but I want to make sure this isn't a receiver issue. Thanks.

.....MBaylor, welcome to Audioholics.com, where we sometimes have pot-luck dinners on Friday....I have noticed some sources simply don't have the end-result pressing of volume some others might....your reference to the digital coax-out brings us to surround receivers, a place virtually EVERYONE here knows more than me....someone will be along soon to help you further....whatcha' want in your coffee?....your choices are cream and sugar, haha......

 

[MDS]

Volume differences between sources is certainly annoying and there are many reasons for it. In a nutshell, it all comes down to the average power level of the recording.

1. Modern CDs are hyper compressed and have very high average power levels (usually between -10dB and -12 dB). Older CDs were mastered more conservatively and have average power levels between -18 dB and -20 dB.
2. DVDs (movies) have a huge dynamic range - from the average dialog level (supposed to be -31 dB) to intense explosions. Add to that the LFE track which can be 10 dB hotter than the rest. So the average is quite low but we are rocked out of our seats when the explosions hit in the soundtrack.
3. Digital vs Analog doesn't make a difference. It still depends on the level of the recording. On my digital cable, sometimes the analog stations are louder than the digital stations (DD 2.0 or DD 5.1) and sometimes it is the other way around.
4. FM radio is louder than either CD or DVD.
5. There can also be differences in the output level of the CD or DVD player but that is fairly rare nowadays as it seems the industry has somewhat standardized on 1 V peak to peak.

There are no standards for either CD levels or broadcast levels. There is a psuedo standard for DVD mastering (-31 dB long term A weighted dialog level) but even that is often violated - THX receivers look for a DialNorm value in the bitstream that specifies how the average level differs from -31 dB so that it can adjust it up or down to that level, but that depends on the mastering engineer accurately calculating the value and including it in the bitstream and often it is not accurate or even present.

Some manufacturers provide a control to attempt to equalize volume levels between sources. Onkyo's scheme is called IntelliVolume. If say, on average, the CD input is 10 dB louder than the DVD input, you can set the CD input's IntelliVolume setting to -10 dB (or the DVD input to +10 dB). I believe some Yamaha receivers have a similar feature. It's still a crapshoot, however, because of the variance in level between different CDs and DVDs.

We just have to live with it...

 

[mbaylor]

Wow! Thanks for that technical information. So I take it there is nothing to worry about. Now onto my next major decision. What speakers I am going to go with. Once again thanks for the valuable information.

What does everyone think of Paradigm Titans for fronts. What would go well with these speakers. Any other suggestions. Budget it about $1500 for speakers (7.1) and sub. Thanks again!

 

[dloweman]

m baylor

have i got some info for you...i just got the pioneer 1015 yesterday and have noticed the same thing with the volume level...i have 2 year old yamaha running before and would play a dvd concert at -28db and it was loud, now i have to play it at -03 with the pioneer to get the same volume. I am a little worried about that. As for the paradigm titans, I am currently running the monitor 7's with titans as surrounds and they do sound great with the pioneer. If I were you and it was at all possible I would step up to the Monitor line if you go paradigm, they are a great bargain and not that much more money. I would suggest going with a better 5.1 setup for now and when money permits go to 7.1, since currently no dvds are in 7 channel, most is 6 channel, so a higher end well setup 5.1 system would sound alot better than a lower end 5.1 setup. If you really wanted you can biamp the front speakers with the 2 extra surround channels. getting back to paradigm, the mini-monitors with the cc370 as a center would be amazing, and a huge step up over the titans and cc170...the main speaker for Home theatre is the center channel, as approx. 80% of all sound comes from the center channel during a movie. So for that reason alone i would go with the 370 as it is a GREAT center....hope this helps and is a start.

 

[mbaylor]

Strange! Has anyone else noticed this? What is everyone running their pioneer receivers at on average?

I will definitely have a look at the monitors. I really do apprecitate the insight and I'm glad I found someone else with the same concern as me.

 

[Thunder18]

Regarding volume

Don't be too worried about what level you have to have it on. If you did the MCACC set-up which is totally dependant on "your" particular room, the unit will adjust the loudness of particular speakers relative to "your" room. The bigger the room, I imagine the higher the level the receiver will specify for each speaker.
In my apartment the surround back speakers are less than 3 feet away from the listening position(where I actually placed the mic during set-up). It set those speakers levels in the negative range at almost every frequency, but the front which are all about 10 feet away it set the levels in the plus dB range for almost every frequency. The level changes the receiver set also affect how loud the receiver will play at a given numerical volume indicator. If your room in small and it sets a lot of the levels to negative then you will have to get to the really low numbers on the volume dial to get it loud. If you have a somewhat larger room and it sets all the levels to the positive side then you won't have to go as deep into the volume dial to get it to play loud.

As long as you can get it to play louder than you can stand it's ok. Otherwise there may be a problem. Remember, THX Select specifies that the receiver(...in conjunction with other THX certified equipment such as speakers, interconnects and music sources) should be able to consistantly deliver 105 dB in a room of up to 2000 sq.ft.

 

[Blundaar]

Fronts- KEF Q75 (duel oval- not the single, bi-amped)
Center- KEF Q100C
Rears- DCM TF-400
Sub- Mirage FRx-10
I had the same questions about "loudness" in a previous post, but all is now well and good at home theater central. Depending on the source, I'm normally playing them between -20 and -10db. It is frustrating sometimes, especially from one DVD movie to the next. If you look at my thread, you can see I brought up the same questions (and a few more).