Newbie trying to decide between Floorstanding speakers & build home theater from there

[John Sheppard]

Hey Everybody,

first post here, I'm sure you guys get of lot of these "help me decide" threads, but here's my story. I'm moving into a new apartment, my old room mate had a very nice sounding 5.1 speaker setup from Cambridge Soundworks, really bumped, I'm looking to upgrade a little with the times since those were about 10 years old. I own a 55' LED and a Pioneer VTX-60 receiver(which we were using with the cambridge soundworks speakers), both of which I purchased within the last 6 months.

Now that I'm on my own, I have to build my own speaker system. Now I know that you tend to want to purchase all of the speakers from the same brand, and although the cambridge soundworks system had some quite respectable bookshelfs, I'm thinking that I want to move into the floorstanding realm and I'm going to purchase the rest of my speakers based on my floorstanding choices.

Ideally I'd like to spend less than $250 a speaker for the front floorstanders and right now I'm looking at either a Polk New Monitor 75T four or a Klipsch Synergy F-20 or F-30, I've checked the speakers out a little at places like Best Buy(I know, not the best place for people looking for real audio :/ ) and tried searching the forums and web, but couldn't find a lot of information on the newer models, most of the reviews I've found are pretty dated and are usually referring to the previous iteration or model. Right now I regret to say that I've pretty much narrowed myself to these options based on price and that they are brand names that I recognize to be good audio. I am looking to build a 7.2 system or 5.2 (with the floor standers bi-amp'ing). Trying to keep everything under 2g's. And will it payoff to stick with the same brand all the way around? What size subs would you recommend(I like to rattle the house with hip hop and electronic stuff from time to time). I'm getting hesitant about the klipsch set because it sounds like a lot of people are finding the horns harsh.

Another useful tidbit, I'd say I do 75% home theater (DTS Movies and DolbyDigital Video Games) and 25% Music (PCM from computer via HDMI)

Hope I don't sound completely out of the ballpark or unfamiliar with these setups.
Thoughts and recommendations?

 

[ImcLoud]

Hello and welcome...

So first lets address the 7.1 vs 5.1, there is a list somewhere with the names of all the movies recorded in 7.1, which is pretty short, I just prefer 5.1, 7.1 seems to take you out of the action when the rears light up... Just preference, and with your budget I would think 5.1 would be the best bang for your buck...

Next "biamping" don't waste your time... Ill let someone else go into that in more detail if need be...

Next is brands... I would go Internet Direct, I have played with a lot of speakers and ID companies offer the best value{no middle man}, customer service {in most cases you can talk to the owner of the company}, and quality{most of the time hand built, or very close to it}...

Next is subwoofer------- How big is your room? My favorite all around sub {and I have 2 of them, but use 1 for the most part since my wife complains when they both are on in my medium large room 400sq ft} is the HSU VTF2 VTF-2 MK4 Subwoofer , so guys around here like rythmic, some like SVS I have heard them all and I like HSU and there prices.. Plus the nicest customer service you will ever deal with....

So if you get a single VTF2 that will leave you with around $1400 left for your 5 speakers...
-As far as towers vs bookshelfs, you are going to be crosing the bass out of your front 3 speakers and redirecting it to your subwoofer, this is common practice when useing a sub, your AVR will most likely shut your fronts and center down at 80hz and send that to your sub, and since a set of towers main benefit is a superior lower end, you kind of get all that bad things that come with a larger enclosure {resonation, space, cost, ect} with none of the benefits. SO you can get a much better bookshelf and Ill be honest with you, will put them Cambridge units to shame 5 times over...
I would get the Ascend Sierra 1's Sierra-1 Bamboo Loudspeaker and sierra 1 center Sierra-1 Reference Loudspeaker which they have rite now in Bstock in gloss espresso, the also have a set of 200se's in bstock, your total would be $1421 in Bstock... and that would be the gloss espresson sierra 1 front end, and the black 200se surrounds.... Ascend Direct

I don't think you will find a better sound for your budget.. That sub shakes my house which is over 4000 sq feet with ceilings as high as 22ft. And I own sierra 1s that I use for music, they are one of the best values in home audio, I use 340se's in my theater, which is also another option but if you can afford the Sierras and they are in Bstock {which is rare} go for it....

Anyway, good luck, I hope this makes sense to you, towers are fun, but you won't afford one that sounds as good as the sierras and you wont get anything extra since the low end is a moot point once your AVR crosses it out....

If you go with the advice you get from this forum, that cambridge 5.1 is going to sound like a McDonalds order window speaker in comparison....

 

[markw]

Good subs work with any speakers and really start around $500 and go up from there. You might want to look st the SVS and Hsu web sites for some ideas and see what they recommend for the room size you are moving into. The bigger the sub, the better the rattler you will get.

Once you get an idea as to what sub you might want to go with, you'll know what amount of your budget remains for the rest of your speakers and we can help from that point on.

As for the other speakers, yes, they should all be from the same manufacturer/line.

I woll offer two hints that might make your decision making a bit easier, particularly since you seem to be trying to work within a budget.

1) Don't get too hung up on biamping. It tends to be over-rated.

2) A 5.1 system doesn't suck, particularly if you don't have the space to properly position the rear surrounds.

 

[shadyJ]

If I were you, I would skip floor standers on that budget. The only affordable towers I would recommend are the Infinity Primus p363 and Pioneer SP towers. The Klipsch towers might not be awful, but the Polk towers have an intolerable tweeter, just horrible. Anyway, what you might think about, and what may give you a better system in the long run, is to go with bookshelf speakers for now. Later on add a sub, then a center. Maybe later you can add some towers in the front and switch the bookshelf speaker to a surround speaker role. In the meantime, a bookshelf speaker could give you better sound quality, since more of it's construction cost will go to higher quality components rather than merely a higher quantity of components. The big advantage that floorstanding speakers have is deeper bass, but since you will eventually crossover your bass to the subwoofer anyway, their deeper bass becomes a moot point.

If you really want very high bang for your buck, check out this Zaph speaker kit, $400 for a pair of MTMs. You do have to do a little bit of assembly, but not much, all of the hard stuff is done already ie cabinet assembly and soldering. All you have to do is glue the crossover and damping in the cabinet, and screw in the drivers and binding post, and glue in the port, all very simple. You don't need any fancy tools, and it wouldn't take long. As for sound quality, compared to budget Polk and Klipsch speakers, it's off the charts. Here is the center speaker you will want to get with it.

I'll address a few more points from your post: forget about bi-amping, it will be mostly a waste, especially for a budget system. Also, you will want to keep the front stage of your speaker system the same exact speakers if not the same line, so don't mix different speaker types for the front left, right, and center speakers. For surround speakers, it is a lot less important to have matching speakers. For subwoofers, it doesn't matter at all.

 

[John Sheppard]

Thanks for the quick response!

what about running two subs? thoughts? ideas? I figure I have two sub ports, and I'm kind of A.D.D. about leaving ports unused, feels like wasted opportunity - Hence the desire to bi-amp. From the advice, I'll probably go with bookshelves, since thats what everyone is recommending, just curious though, what's the entry level price for decent floor standers?

 

[ImcLoud]

Thanks for the quick response!

what about running two subs? thoughts? ideas? I figure I have two sub ports, and I'm kind of A.D.D. about leaving ports unused, feels like wasted opportunity - Hence the desire to bi-amp. From the advice, I'll probably go with bookshelves, since thats what everyone is recommending, just curious though, what's the entry level price for decent floor standers?

Floorstander I would recommend near your budget...
FOCAL CHORUS CC700V CENTER SPEAKER at Music Direct
FOCAL CHORUS 714V TOWER SPEAKERS (PR) at Music Direct
FOCAL 705V SPEAKERS (HAVANA) **DEMO** at Music Direct

That would cost around the same as the bstock sierra 1's and I would like the sierra 1s better, but its a good second option for sure due to the sale pricing... I can't think of anything better for around $1400 for all 5 speakers.... But if you are going with the focals, then you would need to jump on them fast because they wont last at the sale pricing, especially since I listed them here now, lol

as for dual subs, sure that is awesome, I did the same think I have dual vtf2's that will cost $1200 and sounds awesome, soooo much bass, and if you like that club bass that just over powers a room they are very capable... But its $1200, so I would start with one and go from there, I think you will find one can hit insane levels effortlessly...

heres a few more tower options that match the above... more powerfull towers and more powerfull center, but yeah you guessed it more money...
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/FOCAL727VHVN/FOCAL-Chorus-727VTriple-6-1/2-Floor-Standing-Speaker-PAIR-Havana/1.html
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/FOCAL717VHVN/FOCAL-Chorus-717V-Dual-6-1/2-Floor-Standing-Speaker-PAIR-Havana/1.html
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/FOCALCC701HVN/FOCAL-Chorus-CC701-Dual-6-1/2-Drivers-Center-Speaker-Havana/1.html

Also you may want to look around at the wharfedale Diamond towers and center, they sound very good {IMO better than the folcals} and you can get some good deals on them at music direct in the demo section and ebay...

 

[LiveJazz]

That would cost around the same as the bstock sierra 1's and I would like the sierra 1s better, but its a good second option for sure due to the sale pricing... I can't think of anything better for around $1400 for all 5 speakers.... But if you are going with the focals, then you would need to jump on them fast because they wont last at the sale pricing, especially since I listed them here now, lol

Not to hijack, but how does one find B Stock speakers? I've only ever seen a few Dana series b stocks for sale over at Audio Insider...do you just have to email and ask if there's any B Stock available, or are they usually posted as an online order option?

Hopefully OP finds this useful as well.

 

[ImcLoud]

depends what company you are talking about, emotiva you have to call, hsu and ascend hide the link in there site, some companies have sites dedcated to bstock items, some have a list and will call you when something you are looking for becomes available... Which company specifically are you interested in?

 

[SearchofSub]

To OP,

1. Bi-amping is effective and there are reports that it makes a very big difference. (although Bi-wiring is said not to make TOO much difference)
2. If you want to bi-amp, you need to get speakers that have 2 sets of posts in the back.
3. A normal AVR these days allows you to use 2 channels to bi-amp. Trade off is you need to sacrfice 2 channels for it. (if its a 7.1 capable reciever, you will need to sacrfice 2 channels therefore will only be able to go 5.1 for movies).


It is usually best to go with all same TWEETER TYPE, (NOT BRANDS) all around. With 2k budget including the sub, I would just go with Ascend 340SE and 170SE for the sorrounds and a Rythmic sub and forget the bi-amping. If you want to bi-amp (and it does make a difference) thing get more expensive since then you would need to search for Towers that have double posts. Not many bookshelf speakers are Bi-ampable, the option is simply not given, and ofcourse with towers, usually its more expensive than the bookshlfs.


For MUSIC purposes, it gets alot more complicating and expensive.


There is no point of 7.1 or 9.1... the very sources (bluray movies and dvd movies and music cd's) are only recorded in 5.1 or 2.0 mode. So the rest of the sound you get from the "extra" channels are not accurate and sometimes might sound out of place and weird.

 

[SearchofSub]

Also, if you are planing to get tower speakers because the common knowledge is that towers are better sounding than bookshelves that is a misconception. There are many speakers out there that are bookshleves (like MmmicroOnes) that have far superior sound than lets say.. Energy tower series.

Towers are usually for 2.0 experience and are meant for full range. So if you are gonna get a sub and is in a small to mid size room, there is no point in getting half *** towers. The low end will be covered by your sub.

If you are gonna go 5.1 I would go bookshlves and a sub, and if you are gonna go 2.0 I would get the best towers complemented by the best DAC,Preamp,Amp, (seperates) for it.

Most AVR's nowadays have the power output right next to the processing chip, which ultimately will result in increase noise... Noise is the biggest factor because with noise from the DAC and processeor (AVR), no matter how transperent or open the speakers are, the noice from the interanl processing will kill it pretty much.

And with noise, no matter how flat the speakers are, the internal signal will be interrupted and the outcome is, your sound coming out of your speakers will be all over the place.


Suggestion. Go for 2.0 set-up, and invest a bit more. I myself started out with 2k in mind, and is looking at about 10k when I am done with all this.

Or, if you cant, always gor for seperates and not a POS AVR. Emotiva UMC-200 (DAC and processor in one) + XPA 200 (amp) would give you alot better sound if you go the 5.1 route.

 

[SearchofSub]

Also, if you are planing to get tower speakers because the common knowledge is that towers are better sounding than bookshelves that is a misconception. There are many speakers out there that are bookshleves (like MmmicroOnes) that have far superior sound than lets say.. Energy tower series.

Towers are usually for 2.0 experience and are meant for full range. So if you are gonna get a sub and is in a small to mid size room, there is no point in getting half *** towers. The low end will be covered by your sub.

If you are gonna go 5.1 I would go bookshlves and a sub, and if you are gonna go 2.0 I would get the best towers complemented by the best DAC,Preamp,Amp, (seperates) for it.

Most AVR's nowadays have the power output right next to the processing chip, which ultimately will result in increase noise... Noise is the biggest factor because with noise from the DAC and processeor (AVR), no matter how transperent or open the speakers are, the noice from the interanl processing will kill it pretty much.

And with noise, no matter how flat the speakers are, the internal signal will be interrupted and the outcome is, sound coming out of your speakers will be all over the place.


Suggestion. Go for 2.0 set-up, and invest a bit more. I myself started out with 2k in mind, and is looking at about 10k when I am done with all this.

Or, if you cant, always gor for seperates and not a POS AVR. Emotiva UMC-200 (DAC and processor in one) + XPA 200 (amp) would give you alot better sound if you go the 5.1 route.