Newbie to computer audio

J

Jack N

Audioholic
I’m not sure where I should be posting this so let me know if I’m in the wrong spot.

From what I understand people download lossless and HD audio files and store them on their computer. They then play them back and route the sound via patch cords to their sound system receiver or pre-amp. If I’m wrong please correct me.

That sounds like something I’d like to try but I’m concerned about the quality of the sound. Isn’t the sound quality limited by the sound card? I wouldn’t think computer sound cards are anywhere near audiophile grade are they?

How well does SACD work with this set-up?
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Jack, Sound cards are thing of the past. I have zero trust in vast majority of built-in analog sound interfaces - rumour has that Apple build pc they are good, but not sure. Don't have data beyond say so.
In most cases you ether use a dedicated external usb DAC (pros call it "audio interface") then to pre-amp/ amps/ speakers
In this case only thing you really need to worry about is ground loops which could cause hum from speakers, but properly designed - this works just fine even with cheap dac like Behringer UCA202.

Another way just use digital (spdif (optical/coax) or HDMI) straight from pc to dac or pre-amp or a/v receiver. This pretty much is best way to go and guaranteed to be least hassle. You don't need to buy any adapters for pc - ones build-in into most desktop pcs are fine for that purpose (as long as you stick to digital only interfaces)

As for files themselves - any lossless audio file represent PERFECT copy of the CD. it's absolutely same thing (as long as people who created the file at first place didn't cheat and converted LOSSY mp3/aac file into lossless - that doesn't improve anything and unfortunately such fakes do exist - they are hard, but possible to detect - simple software spectrum/time plot shows cut above 16khz is dead giveaway)

So playing good quality lossless file using (for example) hdmi audio out to receiver will be same thing as having a dedicated CD player connected to receiver.

Last thing - SACD - due to their funky format (it's not so great, just funky) it's typically a pain to deal with on the pc. You'll need a specialty dac with supports DSD

In most cases it's not worth the hassle unless, your speakers and room are already at "11"
 
J

Jack N

Audioholic
Very informative. Thanks. I'll look down the avenues you suggested.

I've heard there are plenty of fake lossless files out there so I did some searching and found a piece of software that analyzes them and tells you if it's the real deal or a fake, and if it's a fake it'll tell you what's wrong with it. So far on my limited number of files that I know which are which, it's been right on.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Jack, this is the present and not even the future any more. I do think that now this is maturing, it merits choosing gear with an eye to quality and longevity like everything else in the audio stable. Also don't forget downloads and streaming have the ability to give you a picture also.

Currently even though I have a huge array of equipment increasingly more and more of it passes into the museum category.

Computer based sources in my system now outpace all other sources by a good margin.

Don't be scared of this. Embrace it. It is all part of life long leaning. If you can't embrace these opportunities you have entered God's waiting room. We will all go though that portal soon enough. Don't hurry it up.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
You can also do away with the wires from pc to your system and stream it wirelessly. You can also create your own lossless files from a cd rather than download them.
 
C

ChGr

Audioholic Intern
Jack, Sound cards are thing of the past. I have zero trust in vast majority of built-in analog sound interfaces - rumour has that Apple build pc they are good, but not sure. Don't have data beyond say so.
In most cases you ether use a dedicated external usb DAC (pros call it "audio interface") then to pre-amp/ amps/ speakers
In this case only thing you really need to worry about is ground loops which could cause hum from speakers, but properly designed - this works just fine even with cheap dac like Behringer UCA202.

Another way just use digital (spdif (optical/coax) or HDMI) straight from pc to dac or pre-amp or a/v receiver. This pretty much is best way to go and guaranteed to be least hassle. You don't need to buy any adapters for pc - ones build-in into most desktop pcs are fine for that purpose (as long as you stick to digital only interfaces)

As for files themselves - any lossless audio file represent PERFECT copy of the CD. it's absolutely same thing (as long as people who created the file at first place didn't cheat and converted LOSSY mp3/aac file into lossless - that doesn't improve anything and unfortunately such fakes do exist - they are hard, but possible to detect - simple software spectrum/time plot shows cut above 16khz is dead giveaway)

So playing good quality lossless file using (for example) hdmi audio out to receiver will be same thing as having a dedicated CD player connected to receiver.

Last thing - SACD - due to their funky format (it's not so great, just funky) it's typically a pain to deal with on the pc. You'll need a specialty dac with supports DSD

In most cases it's not worth the hassle unless, your speakers and room are already at "11"
BSA - you state the HDMI connection is 'pretty much the best way to go'. I'm looking to have a small form factor PC dedicated as a music server with an external HD (so I don't have my music committed to the HD on the PC). The typical outputs for PCs are, of course, HDMI and USB 3.0 - no digital audio, etc. My processor accepts HDMI and USB. I thought that I'd use the HDMI for the video, of course, but will there be a difference in sound quality between HDMI and USB or are digits digits? Sounds like you guys are alluding to the fact that the method which you use to rip CDs will have the most effect on sound quality? That said, will most any external CD/DVD drive rip in a quality fashion or should I look for something in particular?
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
BSA - you state the HDMI connection is 'pretty much the best way to go'. I'm looking to have a small form factor PC dedicated as a music server with an external HD (so I don't have my music committed to the HD on the PC). The typical outputs for PCs are, of course, HDMI and USB 3.0 - no digital audio, etc. My processor accepts HDMI and USB. I thought that I'd use the HDMI for the video, of course, but will there be a difference in sound quality between HDMI and USB or are digits digits? Sounds like you guys are alluding to the fact that the method which you use to rip CDs will have the most effect on sound quality? That said, will most any external CD/DVD drive rip in a quality fashion or should I look for something in particular?
ChGr
This is an operating scenario that I do every day so I can offer an opinion.
I use a Mac Mini as the source for my audio library (and video library too). I have a big screen TV that's the console for the Mac that's also attached to the AVR via HDMI.
The Mac Mini is connected to my AVR via HDMI. The HDMI connection provides both sound and video if video is present. The DAC in the AVR does the magic of conversion and I chose this setup because it gives me the highest quality signal path for both audio and video.

I don't believe I could hear any difference between a USB connection and an HDMI connection. I prefer the HDMI for simplicity and because on the AH the overall opinion seems to favor HDMI.

Will the method used for ripping CD's have a great affect on sound quality? That's an "it depends" question but the safe answer is "it might" and a couple of simple choices can insulate you from any potential "ah shits". If you choose a lossless method for storing your ripped CD's you are insulating yourself from most of the problems. If storage space isn't an issue for you, then also choose an uncompressed format as well. The combination of lossless and uncompressed will insulate you from most possible issues.

Do you need a special setup to rip your CD's? Nope, not in my opinion. I just used my iMac as the source for rips right in to my library. There are a lot of software rippers (foobar2000, Exact Audio Copy, JRiver) that will get the job done. There are fans for each. Just pick one and it will do the job. You can choose to turn on error correction flags to make sure the copy is as close to an exact copy as is feasible.

Hope this helps. I have been doing this for over a year now and its given me the best quality source sound that's available. Its also easy to use, and easy to back up.
 
C

ChGr

Audioholic Intern
Yes, thanks. Looking seriously at the Mini as the form is great and seems simple. I'm a PC guy, though, so leaning w
ChGr
This is an operating scenario that I do every day so I can offer an opinion.
I use a Mac Mini as the source for my audio library (and video library too). I have a big screen TV that's the console for the Mac that's also attached to the AVR via HDMI.
The Mac Mini is connected to my AVR via HDMI. The HDMI connection provides both sound and video if video is present. The DAC in the AVR does the magic of conversion and I chose this setup because it gives me the highest quality signal path for both audio and video.

I don't believe I could hear any difference between a USB connection and an HDMI connection. I prefer the HDMI for simplicity and because on the AH the overall opinion seems to favor HDMI.

Will the method used for ripping CD's have a great affect on sound quality? That's an "it depends" question but the safe answer is "it might" and a couple of simple choices can insulate you from any potential "ah shits". If you choose a lossless method for storing your ripped CD's you are insulating yourself from most of the problems. If storage space isn't an issue for you, then also choose an uncompressed format as well. The combination of lossless and uncompressed will insulate you from most possible issues.

Do you need a special setup to rip your CD's? Nope, not in my opinion. I just used my iMac as the source for rips right in to my library. There are a lot of software rippers (foobar2000, Exact Audio Copy, JRiver) that will get the job done. There are fans for each. Just pick one and it will do the job. You can choose to turn on error correction flags to make sure the copy is as close to an exact copy as is feasible.

Hope this helps. I have been doing this for over a year now and its given me the best quality source sound that's available. Its also easy to use, and easy to back up.


Yes, thanks. Looking seriously at the Mini as the form is great and seems simple. Best looking PC out there IMO. A little pricey, though. I'm a PC guy, so leaning toward something like a NUC and JRiver. I take it your Mini and your iMac are connected to the same HD/NAS/network drive?

The HP Slice is intriguing, too. What kind of processing power and memory at a minimum would a PC as dedicated music server require?
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
Yes, thanks. Looking seriously at the Mini as the form is great and seems simple. I'm a PC guy, though, so leaning w




Yes, thanks. Looking seriously at the Mini as the form is great and seems simple. Best looking PC out there IMO. A little pricey, though. I'm a PC guy, so leaning toward something like a NUC and JRiver. I take it your Mini and your iMac are connected to the same HD/NAS/network drive?

The HP Slice is intriguing, too. What kind of processing power and memory at a minimum would a PC as dedicated music server require?
The Mac Mini is a great little system and it fills the media server niche quite nicely. A media server does NOT need a lot of horsepower. What it needs is connectivity and a reliable operating environment. The Mini connects to everything and MacOs is definitely stable. I'm an Apple convert and all my stuff is now based on Mac. You can make the change in a weekend. That's the learning curve. Very short.

There are plenty of Windows based form factors as well. I don't like to cast stones at other peoples ideas so I'll just leave the Windows choices up to y'all if you want to go that direction. If you choose Windows: there's plenty to like there as well.

My Mini is indeed part of a home sharing network with my iMac and other assets. I have 3 copies of my library on disk on different machines and then the original CD's and disks in a safe. I use ipads as the remote control devices instead of keyboard and mouse for playing music. I only use the Mini's keyboard and mouse for system level functions and diddling on the system for small tasks.

Mac's make great media devices. The upfront cost is higher, but I would argue the long term costs are even or less than alternatives. Its a Chevy, Cadillac, Ford type of discussion. In the end, they will all take you to the store and back.

Enjoy your journey and it should be fun getting there
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
There can be a big difference between USB and HDMI but it totally depends on your receiver. If the USB input doesn't support anything higher than 192khz/24 bit then there won't be a difference. However, some support much higher resolution, but if you don't have the audio files to match then the difference is moot.

I've read reviews of USB sounding better than HDMI, but it is receiver dependent and has a lot to do with the word clock sync and things like that. A bit over most people's heads, but if USB is an option, I'd try just to see what you think. I have a little USB DAC/Amp I got for my PC and I love it. It is dead simple and does it's job very well. Not too expensive either.

I've also used HDMI to a receiver for years and years without issue. Multichannel DVD-A sounds awesome as well as Blu-ray audio discs. You really can't go wrong with either, but play around and see what you like best. If you can't tell a difference then go HDMI for simplicity.
 
C

ChGr

Audioholic Intern
There can be a big difference between USB and HDMI but it totally depends on your receiver. If the USB input doesn't support anything higher than 192khz/24 bit then there won't be a difference. However, some support much higher resolution, but if you don't have the audio files to match then the difference is moot.

I've read reviews of USB sounding better than HDMI, but it is receiver dependent and has a lot to do with the word clock sync and things like that. A bit over most people's heads, but if USB is an option, I'd try just to see what you think. I have a little USB DAC/Amp I got for my PC and I love it. It is dead simple and does it's job very well. Not too expensive either.

I've also used HDMI to a receiver for years and years without issue. Multichannel DVD-A sounds awesome as well as Blu-ray audio discs. You really can't go wrong with either, but play around and see what you like best. If you can't tell a difference then go HDMI for simplicity.

Thanks much. My processor specs say that the Sampling Frequency for the USB Drive Playback for FLAC is:
32Bit
44.1/48kHz/88.2kHz/
96kHz/176.4kHz/
192kHz

Does that mean that it's a higher resolution than the 192/24 you reference?
I'll try both.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks much. My processor specs say that the Sampling Frequency for the USB Drive Playback for FLAC is:
32Bit
44.1/48kHz/88.2kHz/
96kHz/176.4kHz/
192kHz

Does that mean that it's a higher resolution than the 192/24 you reference?
I'll try both.

Looks like you have it matching at 192khz...where's the higher resolution?
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
I've got 4 ways of doing it:

1. iTunes from computer A to usb/spdif converter to pre/pro spdif input
2. iTunes wireless from computer B via Airplay to Airport Express to pre/pro spdif input
3. iTunes wireless from iPhone via Airplay to Airport Express to pre/pro spdif input
4. iTunes wireless from iPad via Airplay to Airport Express to pre/pro spdif input

In number 1 all material in iTunes from MP3 to 24/192 is up or down sampled to 24/96 which is the highest sampling rate my 17 year old pre/pro will process-it sounds as good as CD/SACD.

Number 2 through 4, all material is up or down sampled to 16/44.1- all these means sound the same to me-almost as good as number 1 on some material and indistinguishable from number 1 on some material.

Number 3 is most convenient.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
32 bit? Clearly, I have no idea what that means.
You're good. USB and HDMI on your are almost the same with the exception being HDMI is 24 bit and your USB supports 32 bit. Unless you have 32 bit audio files you aren't gaining anything going over USB. You aren't losing anything either.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
The Mac Mini is a great little system and it fills the media server niche quite nicely. A media server does NOT need a lot of horsepower. What it needs is connectivity and a reliable operating environment. The Mini connects to everything and MacOs is definitely stable. I'm an Apple convert and all my stuff is now based on Mac. You can make the change in a weekend. That's the learning curve. Very short.

There are plenty of Windows based form factors as well. I don't like to cast stones at other peoples ideas so I'll just leave the Windows choices up to y'all if you want to go that direction. If you choose Windows: there's plenty to like there as well.

My Mini is indeed part of a home sharing network with my iMac and other assets. I have 3 copies of my library on disk on different machines and then the original CD's and disks in a safe. I use ipads as the remote control devices instead of keyboard and mouse for playing music. I only use the Mini's keyboard and mouse for system level functions and diddling on the system for small tasks.

Mac's make great media devices. The upfront cost is higher, but I would argue the long term costs are even or less than alternatives. Its a Chevy, Cadillac, Ford type of discussion. In the end, they will all take you to the store and back.

Enjoy your journey and it should be fun getting there
I don't want to get into a big Mac vs. PC battle here. But, I personally hate the closed Apple Ecosystem. I prefer the open PC ecosystem.

But.......with the Apple closed ecosystem....things just tend to work right the first time (more often than on PC). The tradeoff is that Apple does not have the variety of programs and peripherals or end user options that you get with the PC (or Android).

Several decades ago, the first time I really used modern Apple products, I said "this is how the PC should operate". Then, when I finally came back around to PC, I found that it was MUCH more user friendly than the old days that I had been used to.

Anyway, advantages/disadvantages for either system, but for ME, I prefer PC.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Yes, thanks. Looking seriously at the Mini as the form is great and seems simple. I'm a PC guy, though, so leaning w




Yes, thanks. Looking seriously at the Mini as the form is great and seems simple. Best looking PC out there IMO. A little pricey, though. I'm a PC guy, so leaning toward something like a NUC and JRiver. I take it your Mini and your iMac are connected to the same HD/NAS/network drive?

The HP Slice is intriguing, too. What kind of processing power and memory at a minimum would a PC as dedicated music server require?
For my main HT, I just have my tower PC in the gear rack, hooked to my AVR via HDMI, and controlled with a mini wireless keyboard with integrated touchpad. Running FOOBAR.

For my man-cave, I have a Raspberry Pi Dedicated "Audiophile" Streamer setup.

Either choice is an excellent option! But the RPi is not plug and play.
 
C

ChGr

Audioholic Intern
I don't want to get into a big Mac vs. PC battle here. But, I personally hate the closed Apple Ecosystem. I prefer the open PC ecosystem.

But.......with the Apple closed ecosystem....things just tend to work right the first time (more often than on PC). The tradeoff is that Apple does not have the variety of programs and peripherals or end user options that you get with the PC (or Android).

Several decades ago, the first time I really used modern Apple products, I said "this is how the PC should operate". Then, when I finally came back around to PC, I found that it was MUCH more user friendly than the old days that I had been used to.

Anyway, advantages/disadvantages for either system, but for ME, I prefer PC.

Same, and as I've stated, I'm a PC guy but intrigued by the Mac Mini. I this article:
http://www.psaudio.com/ps_how/how-to-build-a-music-server/
the author says that he uses Bit Perfect in order to ensure the signal leaving the computer is unaltered by the computer (and its software?). If I'm reading this correctly, is his issue that he's using iTunes and will using JRiver overcome this and negate the need for Bit Perfect?
 
C

ChGr

Audioholic Intern
For my main HT, I just have my tower PC in the gear rack, hooked to my AVR via HDMI, and controlled with a mini wireless keyboard with integrated touchpad. Running FOOBAR.

For my man-cave, I have a Raspberry Pi Dedicated "Audiophile" Streamer setup.

Either choice is an excellent option! But the RPi is not plug and play.
The other cool thing about the Mac Mini is the fact that it apparently can be controlled via an iPad. I see that you're using a wireless keyboard, and presumably choosing your music/video on the monitor that's attached to your PC. Do you guys know of a way to control a PC (using the JRiver or foobar) using a tablet like the Mac can be controlled with the iPad?
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
The other cool thing about the Mac Mini is the fact that it apparently can be controlled via an iPad. I see that you're using a wireless keyboard, and presumably choosing your music/video on the monitor that's attached to your PC. Do you guys know of a way to control a PC (using the JRiver or foobar) using a tablet like the Mac can be controlled with the iPad?
Foobar has an app in the android marketplace that works very, very well. Like the program, it's free.
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top