Newbie question about subwoofer crossover / cutoff

[Lucas Paul]

Hello all!

I just purchased some new Wharfedale 220's and a Dayton APA150 amp. I love this setup so far. I have it hooked up as my PC speakers. I would like to add a sub woofer to this to add to the low end. So my question is... how would I go about setting the wharfedales so they wont play sounds under 70hz (or 80hz?) and instead send it to the subwoofer. From what I understand the Dayton APA150 has no high pass filter for the speakers so it only plays full range. What would be the most efficient way to achieve this? I don't want the speakers attempting to play the super low notes that the sub woofer would already be taking care of. Would I have to buy a receiver? (was the amp a waste of money?) Any information would be greatly appreciated!! If any recommendations for a sub woofer under 300$ would be great too!

Thank you,
Luke

PC > Dayton APA150 > Wharfedale 220s > Sub Woofer?

 

[tyhjaarpa]

Subs like Dayton sub 1200/1500 fit in your budget and will do the trick for you. PC > AMP > Sub > Speakers.

 

[shadyJ]

A receiver will have a lot more features and flexibility than a simple Dayton amp. However, it will cost a lot more and won't have as good of a amplifier unless you are willing to spend. If you just want to high pass the speakers, you need a high pass filter. Here is a simple one, and here is one with more flexibility but it is a bit more complicated. As for a sub, not a lot of great ones around 300. I would try to raise the budget a bit.

 

[TLS Guy]

A receiver will have a lot more features and flexibility than a simple Dayton amp. However, it will cost a lot more and won't have as good of a amplifier unless you are willing to spend. If you just want to high pass the speakers, you need a high pass filter. Here is a simple one, and here is one with more flexibility but it is a bit more complicated. As for a sub, not a lot of great ones around 300. I would try to raise the budget a bit.

Those units will not work for him Shady.

The Dayton only has one input, which the PC will use, and a line out, which would drive a sub line in. But there is no connection back to the power amp stage.

As is usual with integrated amps, his only option is speaker level inputs on a sub, with speaker level outs to his speakers. This is very much a second best affair.

Most integrated amps will not do what the OP wants.

He really needs a unit with bass management, or a unit like older two channel receivers that have jumpers between the pre and power amp stage, or a pre/power amp combo, and put the crossover between pre and pro, and finally a unit like a modern receiver that has bass management.

 

[j_garcia]

A sub that has speaker level out would work, but you are stuck with the fixed x-over that comes on that output.

I would tend to say an inexpensive or refurb receiver would be a better choice.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/avreceiver/home-audio/receivers-amps/home-theater-receivers/1.html

 

[Lucas Paul]

Bummer I can't use the low pass equipment shady was talking about. So something like the denon avr-e300 5.1 would work? I can't believe the companies haven't caught on in this day and age. I spent around 500$ on the setup I have now with the wharfedales and amp. Do you think it would be worth spending more then 300$ on the sub ? I was looking at the svs 1000 for 499$. So the sub would cost just as much as the speakers + amp.

 

[Lucas Paul]

"A sub that has speaker level out would work, but you are stuck with the fixed x-over that comes on that output."


With the svs 1000 I could run the speakers through the sub then into the amp and make it work? Or I could just go the old school/ traditional way and use my ears to blend in the subwoofer to the best of my abilities and save money? . maybe that would be the best way. I wonder REALLy how much different it would sound.

 

[TLS Guy]

"A sub that has speaker level out would work, but you are stuck with the fixed x-over that comes on that output."


With the svs 1000 I could run the speakers through the sub then into the amp and make it work? Or I could just go the old school/ traditional way and use my ears to blend in the subwoofer to the best of my abilities and save money? . maybe that would be the best way. I wonder REALLy how much different it would sound.

Unless you are going to play at very loud levels, what you suggest is a good solution.

Just connect the sub to the line outs of your Dayton amp and set the crossover around 80 Hz and increase the volume until it sounds about right.

Remember subs off load speakers and amps barely at all. So it would play louder with a high pass as well as a low pass crossover. However if your rig is loud enough for you now, it will be after you add the sub as you suggest. So all you need is a sub and a cable.

On the other hand if you are playing to the point were the bass gets muddy and there is a lot of cone excursion of the mid/bass drivers, then you need to do something different.

 

[j_garcia]

As far as I know, none of the SVSs have speaker level outputs.

I agree the most common method is what you've suggested - dial it in by ear and enjoy the listening My second setup is 2ch with a Marantz integrated and that's exactly what I did.

 

[shadyJ]

Those units will not work for him Shady.

The Dayton only has one input, which the PC will use, and a line out, which would drive a sub line in. But there is no connection back to the power amp stage.

As is usual with integrated amps, his only option is speaker level inputs on a sub, with speaker level outs to his speakers. This is very much a second best affair.

Most integrated amps will not do what the OP wants.

He really needs a unit with bass management, or a unit like older two channel receivers that have jumpers between the pre and power amp stage, or a pre/power amp combo, and put the crossover between pre and pro, and finally a unit like a modern receiver that has bass management.

I don't see why a low pass filter won't work. The amp has two inputs:

With a low pass filter, all he has to do is bring the signal into the filter, and the filter splits the signal, and then connect the amp from the filter. He would need a sub with a left and right line-level input. Alternatively, some of the SVS subs have built-in 80 Hz high-passed outputs. Furthermore, the computer itself should have some bass management capability. Depending on his computer's sound interface, he should just be able to connect the speaker outputs to the amp, and the sub out to the subwoofer. No filter is needed, no AVR is needed, only a subwoofer. If the computer can not do that, it is better to get a new sound interface for the computer.

 

[Lucas Paul]

That low pass filter on the amp is made for powering a passive sub I think. But I really like where this is going... I feel like there should be a relatively cheap/easy solution to this. I don't have a sound card or any software besides what windows 10 comes with. I definitely would grab a sound card if it gave me the right options..

 

[TLS Guy]

I don't see why a low pass filter won't work. The amp has two inputs:

With a low pass filter, all he has to do is bring the signal into the filter, and the filter splits the signal, and then connect the amp from the filter. He would need a sub with a left and right line-level input. Alternatively, some of the SVS subs have built-in 80 Hz high-passed outputs. Furthermore, the computer itself should have some bass management capability. Depending on his computer's sound interface, he should just be able to connect the speaker outputs to the amp, and the sub out to the subwoofer. No filter is needed, no AVR is needed, only a subwoofer. If the computer can not do that, it is better to get a new sound interface for the computer.

The amp does not have two inputs. It has one pair of R & L line inputs and a pair of R & L line outputs.

So his computer goes to the line in. The line outs can go to a sub. He needs a sub with R & L inputs, as you can not common those outputs. If you put the high pass crossover you recommended between the amp and the sub there is absolutely no way to return the high pass output back to that amp.

 

[Lucas Paul]

If I put a sound card with low and high pass filters built in, using software, would that work

 

[TLS Guy]

That low pass filter on the amp is made for powering a passive sub I think. But I really like where this is going... I feel like there should be a relatively cheap/easy solution to this. I don't have a sound card or any software besides what windows 10 comes with. I definitely would grab a sound card if it gave me the right options..

A sound card with bass management would only solve your problem if you never used the volume control on your amp. I you did, then the balance between speakers and sub would be constantly upset.

So you would have to leave your sub and amp controls optimal and control the volume only from the computer. This could work, but you might get into signal to noise issues. You what have to carefully experiment to get the gain structures of all the components carefully set.

I would regard a set up like that as awkward at best.

I think you should try first running your speakers full range and blending in a sub connected to the line outs of your amp.

If that is not satisfactory, then you need one of the solutions I have already mentioned above.

Try that simple solution first, it may well be all you need.

 

[shadyJ]

The amp does not have two inputs. It has one pair of R & L line inputs and a pair of R & L line outputs.

So his computer goes to the line in. The line outs can go to a sub. He needs a sub with R & L inputs, as you can not common those outputs. If you put the high pass crossover you recommended between the amp and the sub there is absolutely no way to return the high pass output back to that amp.

The computer can go to the filter, then the amp and sub from the filter. Yes, he would need a sub with R & L inputs, and yes, he would have to control the volume from the computer. The MiniDSP can do that. With the Hsu filter, you would need to use Y-splitters at the computer's output, and set the subwoofer's low pass frequency at the filter's high pass frequency. He does not need to use the line-level outputs on the amp.

 

[TLS Guy]

The computer can go to the filter, then the amp and sub from the filter. Yes, he would need a sub with R & L inputs, and yes, he would have to control the volume from the computer. The MiniDSP can do that. With the Hsu filter, you would need to use Y-splitters at the computer's output, and set the subwoofer's low pass frequency at the filter's high pass frequency. He does not need to use the line-level outputs on the amp.

Yes, he could do that, but another awkward solution.

 

[Lucas Paul]

Can you guys recommend any good stereo amp/receivers (there are so many) that would allow for this? Thanks again for all the info. Budget is less than 500$

 

[TLS Guy]

Can you guys recommend any good stereo amp/receivers (there are so many) that would allow for this? Thanks again for all the info. Budget is less than 500$

That is the problem, there aren't any.

For what you want this is your best option.

 

[Lucas Paul]

I think I might have found a good solution. The hsu research sub (350$ model) has both high level input and output, from amp and out to speakers. I feel like this would work great....what do you guys think?!

 

[Lucas Paul]

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