New to DIY Speakers - Looking for recommendations on where to start?

[theblackangus]

Hello all!
After reading many posts talking about DIY value, I have decided to give it a try.
My initial target is to build a pair of bookshelf speakers, a matching center, and a sub.
The room is a large room (6400 qft)and if all goes well I will eventually be adding another sub and surrounds.
I would like to start with only the bookshelves and the 1st sub.
I have no woodworking experience, and I have no specific tools just a jig saw, circular saw, and power drill.

I am looking for good quality sound as these will be mostly for music listening, so for reference lets set the following goal:

• Bookshelves should compare closely to the Serria-2's or PhilHarmonitors
• Sub should compare with the Rythmic FV15HP version (Or better)

Kit guidelines

• Sound quality is goal number 1.
• I would rather buy a crossover than build one myself (I can build it, I'd just rather not =)
• Flatpacks would be nice, but not if the sound is compromised by going that route
• These will be painted nicely when complete but not finished with wood, so building materials can be whatever will give the best SQ with no relation to look of the material
• Price range for the completed speakers should be as follows:
  • 800$ or less for the finished bookshelves
  • 800$ or less for the finished sub

I'm looking for suggestions around the following areas:

• What kits should I be looking at? There are alot of them and its hard to tell what is really good.
• What tools should I invest in? Knowing that I would like to eventually build full size speakers for my home theater, and possibly some furniture.

Thanks for the advice all!

 

[fuzz092888]

What is your budget for the kit? Kit means drivers and crossover, not the box and other building/finishing materials.

 

[theblackangus]

What is your budget for the kit? Kit means drivers and crossover, not the box and other building/finishing materials.

Thanks updated the original post with cost range.

 

[fuzz092888]

Thanks updated the original post with cost range.

One more clarification about the sub. Does that include an amplifier or not? Because you're looking at two very different performance standpoints if it's $800 with amp, or $800 without amp.

 

[theblackangus]

One more clarification about the sub. Does that include an amplifier or not? Because you're looking at two very different performance standpoints if it's $800 with amp, or $800 without amp.

Again Thanks!
I was thinking $800 with amp, but if you can't get to Rythmic level at that budge I would raise the budget to get the Rythmic level.
I want to sub to be clear clean crisp and articulate, well the whole setup for that matter =)

 

[fuzz092888]

Here are a few kits. Almost all of them are close to the top of your range once finished or possibly a little above. The only problem is that none of them have cabinets with flat packs. They all come with detailed plans so you can probably find a local cabinet maker or someone to just make the cuts including the driver cutouts for you.

Pi Speaker Kits, four Pi kit

Adelphos / Pair

Mandolin Speaker Kit / Pr

Statements Monitor (Pair)

Triton, Pr.

Ambiance

Teatro

The Madisound Speaker Store

The Madisound Speaker Store

Now these kits all come with the front baffle and I think there are flat packs for most of them.

Speaker Kits DIY Sound Group

Waveguide Speaker kits DIY Sound Group

 

[fuzz092888]

Again Thanks!
I was thinking $800 with amp, but if you can't get to Rythmic level at that budge I would raise the budget to get the Rythmic level.
I want to sub to be clear clean crisp and articulate, well the whole setup for that matter =)

If you like Rythmik subs so much, but want a custom cabinet, why not just buy a Rythmik kit?

The 1510 driver
Rythmik Audio 15" servo subwoofer " DS1500 Custom Installation subwoofer

With either the 3 or 4cuft flatpack.

Subwoofer Flat Packs DIY Sound Group

 

[theblackangus]

If you like Rythmik subs so much, but want a custom cabinet, why not just buy a Rythmik kit?

The 1510 driver
Rythmik Audio 15" servo subwoofer " DS1500 Custom Installation subwoofer

With either the 3 or 4cuft flatpack.

Subwoofer Flat Packs DIY Sound Group

Man, I had not even seen that Rythmik had a kit like that....
It it that easy to buy a random flatpack and put the Rythmik kit in it?

I was just using Rythmik as a reference ... not stuck on them but want something comparable to that or the SVS high-end.

 

[fuzz092888]

Man, I had not even seen that Rythmik had a kit like that....
It it that easy to buy a random flatpack and put the Rythmik kit in it?

I was just using Rythmik as a reference ... not stuck on them but want something comparable to that or the SVS high-end.

It's not random. 3-4cuft is what is recommended by Rythmik, it says right on the product page. Otherwise, no it's not that easy. You can't just drop random drivers in random sized boxes, however DIY soundgroup offers 1-4 cuft sealed boxes because most sub drivers model pretty well in around those volumes.

With that kind of budget I might be tempted to go with two of these in the 4cuft boxes. That's a big room and to properly pressurize it, I'd probably want at least 4 in the long run.

iST Ltd.

 

[ARES24]

I was thinking about going the rythmic route aswell until I started this thread.

My build cost me about $800 too.

This sub is great. I do have it in a smaller room.


In a room that size would it be more likely to clip?

 

[fuzz092888]

I was thinking about going the rythmic route aswell until I started this thread.

My build cost me about $800 too.

This sub is great. I do have it in a smaller room.


In a room that size would it be more likely to clip?

In that size room, there is definitely a risk of overdriving the sub with HT content. Possibly with music. I'd have to look it over again and run the numbers to be sure. Personally I'd rather see him with at least duals. The IXL can run sealed or ported and he can afford two of them. I only recommended the sealed cabs because he said he'd rather not build from scratch if possible, plus sealed is more difficult as well. Either way, he'all be hard pressed to get "hit you in the chest" bass with that budget in that size space.

 

[macddmac]

For a stated budget of 1600 total..
pony up a little more and get a pair of Sierra -1 and a HSU VTF -15h.
likely 250 shipped over your budget but: no dust, got to have it extra tools, skinned knuckles, sitting on homer bucket trying figure out the next step etc.
I've heard the HSU in a room volume much larger than yours and found it quite pleasing. Plus, it's just the right size to be an end table
If you feel you need more evenly distributed bass later, Add another sub.
When you're ready, order the S-2's and move the S-1's to surround duty
my .02 cents.
Cheers, Mac

 

[theblackangus]

It's not random. 3-4cuft is what is recommended by Rythmik, it says right on the product page. Otherwise, no it's not that easy. You can't just drop random drivers in random sized boxes, however DIY soundgroup offers 1-4 cuft sealed boxes because most sub drivers model pretty well in around those volumes.

With that kind of budget I might be tempted to go with two of these in the 4cuft boxes. That's a big room and to properly pressurize it, I'd probably want at least 4 in the long run.

iST Ltd.

I didn't mean random in the way you describe, I just though the cabinet needed to be tuned to the driver more than you are indicating =)
Also I can certianly build something but I thought that with very limited wood working experience (building skateboard ramps) starting with something that has a flatpack may teach me some basics about the assembly process with less pain. That said Ill settle with a PITA for better SQ at a given budget.

For a stated budget of 1600 total..
pony up a little more and get a pair of Sierra -1 and a HSU VTF -15h.
likely 250 shipped over your budget but: no dust, got to have it extra tools, skinned knuckles, sitting on homer bucket trying figure out the next step etc.
I've heard the HSU in a room volume much larger than yours and found it quite pleasing. Plus, it's just the right size to be an end table
If you feel you need more evenly distributed bass later, Add another sub.
When you're ready, order the S-2's and move the S-1's to surround duty
my .02 cents.
Cheers, Mac

Thanks for the input!

Ill add a few things.

I'm limited to bookshelves because this is a living area and the wife doesn't want towers. (I promised to make the sub look like a table =))
So I understand I may not be able to get to quite Serria-2 quality but I want to get as close as possible with DIY.
I'm also looking at this project as a learning experience.
I want to use this to break in my wood working skills, as well as save some bucks and learn more about speaker construction and eventually design as I go.
Part 1 - The living area - Bookshelves and Sub - Break in skills, learn tricks and accumulate tools needed.
Part 2 - Upgrade Theater - Build new LCR/SUBs - quality grade undetermined, build stage, build screen (150' diag with motorized curtains)
Part 3 - Set of 2 channel listening speakers of very high quality in sound and finish.

 

[fuzz092888]

I didn't mean random in the way you describe, I just though the cabinet needed to be tuned to the driver more than you are indicating =)

That's mainly with ported or PR alignments. Sealed is a little more flexible, in some respects.

Also I can certianly build something but I thought that with very limited wood working experience (building skateboard ramps) starting with something that has a flatpack may teach me some basics about the assembly process with less pain.

The flatpacks are easy to put together and really only take some wood glue and clamps. Finishing can still be tough.

That said Ill settle with a PITA for better SQ at a given budget.

Sealed is sealed. It's just a closed box. If there's a flatpack that will suit their needs, even experienced builders will jump on one for the super accuarate CNC cuts and ease of assembly.

I'm limited to bookshelves because this is a living area and the wife doesn't want towers. (I promised to make the sub look like a table =))
So I understand I may not be able to get to quite Serria-2 quality but I want to get as close as possible with DIY.

You can get Sierra-2 quality and beyond. Just depends on what you want to spend. If you build a kit by a well known and accomplished designer and spend about the same as you would pay for the Sierra-2, you'll easily be in the ballpark SQ wise, quite possibly beyond.

I'm also looking at this project as a learning experience.
I want to use this to break in my wood working skills, as well as save some bucks and learn more about speaker construction and eventually design as I go.
Part 1 - The living area - Bookshelves and Sub - Break in skills, learn tricks and accumulate tools needed.

More tools can make the build go faster/easier/more accurate, but you can get just about any build done with what you've got, plus a straight edge clamp or very straight piece of wood.

Part 2 - Upgrade Theater - Build new LCR/SUBs - quality grade undetermined, build stage, build screen (150' diag with motorized curtains)

The DIYsoundgroup waveguide kits would be excellent for this. Plus they come with flatpacks. High efficiency, with a large dynamic range.

Part 3 - Set of 2 channel listening speakers of very high quality in sound and finish.

Your budget right now can get you the Adelphos/Karos which are extremely high quality bookshelves. Lots of other options out there as well, but you'll need a bigger budget.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Imho GR N-series Kits are closest ones you're going to get to sound of Philamonitors. Dennis designed and published designs for ER18 (towers) and ER15 (horizontal only center) - I don't know of matching bookshelves - but I guess GR-N would be pretty close.

Speaker kits, loudspeaker design services, sub-woofers and amplifiers. - N Series kits

 

[jinjuku]

If you build the Finalists you may find that with proper corner loading that you don't need a sub

Yes a large format stand mount speaker that has very good low frequency production.

 

[j_garcia]

I will second the GR N-series kits. I've heard the N2X at length and own the Danny designed Carnegie CSB-1s and matching center which are based on the N1 kit. Excellent speakers. You are going to have to build the X-overs though.

 

[theblackangus]

Your budget right now can get you the Adelphos/Karos which are extremely high quality bookshelves. Lots of other options out there as well, but you'll need a bigger budget.

Each of those projects will have their own budget and goals. For the last one those will be full 3 way speakers and have a larger budget if I get there and still believe DIY is the way to go. (Meaning if I can make something with really nice finish =)

If you build the Finalists you may find that with proper corner loading that you don't need a sub

Yes a large format stand mount speaker that has very good low frequency production.

Sadly those don't fit where they need to, and neither do the "Statement Mini's" which I think seems up my alley.

So it seems after looking at alot of the suggestions and other kits from various places it seems that the 8" wide requirement is biting me.
So the short list so far is:
N2X - Speaker kits, loudspeaker design services, sub-woofers and amplifiers. - N Series kits
S6 - Speaker Kits
Carrera - https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/carrera

Question - For some of these kits I don't even see cabinet plans, are some of those kits a "design your own" cabinet kind of thing?

I also see that people seem to like the Marty cubes. Does anyone know if the SQ there is good?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Plans for N2X are here:
http://www.gr-research.com/pdf/Neo-2X box.pdf
or you could even use PE's 0.5cu ft ready box - Hi-Fi Speaker Cabinets in the Speaker Components Department at Parts Express | 288

 

[lsiberian]

For speakers kits I like the Zaph stuff. For going your own way Dayton Reference drivers are a safe bet.

For subwoofers I use TC Sounds drivers personally you can make an amazing sub for less than 800.

For cutting tools nothing beats a table saw. I personally use the portable rigid and it's works very well. You will also need a plunge base router and a router buddy circle jig. If you plan to do a sealed box my calculator will handle that very well and even give you the dimensions and cut list for my gluing up style. If you want to do woodworking as a hobby speaker building is a great way to practice it. If that doesn't interest you then save your money. If I had all the money I spend on tools back I'd be able to buy an amazing setup with it. I personally love woodworking and have built shelves and other items. Oh and I alway use ply never MDF. MDF is too heavy.