New Definitive Tech Speakers

[Yardley]

Hi all, first post here! I just picked up a ProCinema 600 package from craigslist and found out the sub was dead after a few days when I finally got some time to set everything up, so I upgraded to a HSU STF-2 Sub. I also purchased a Denon AVR-1913 to drive everything. After going through the Audyssey configuration I went in to check what settings everything was set to and noticed the below settings.

All speakers set to Small
Crossover for the Front and Surround at 250Hz, Center at 200Hz and Subwoofer Mode set to LFE with LPF for LFE set to 120Hz. The description under Subwoofer Mode set to LFE says "Plays low range and LFE signals of channels set to small.

Frequency Response Specs for the STF-2 are 25 - 100Hz, the 600 center 22Hz - 30kHz and the satellites 55Hz - 30kHz.

Do my current settings seem alright? This is all new to me.

Also wanted to ask if there would be any benefit to upgrading the center 600 speaker to a 1000 since I got one as part of the package or is it better to keep the 600 with the matching 600 satellites? Thanks in advanced.

 

[rojo]

Hey Yardley, and welcome to the forum.

No, the settings don't quite seem right, and that's not uncommon. Audyssey's auto setup is a great starting point, but I always have to go behind it and change the crossover frequencies, dialog level and subwoofer volume. I'd cross everything over at 80Hz, including the low-pass filter for the LFE channel. Maybe cross your satellites over at 100. Try it both ways and stick with what sounds better. Salt to taste. All your full-range speakers should be small.

Re: upgrading your center, I say watch a few movies and let your ears answer that question.

 

[Yardley]

Hey Yardley, and welcome to the forum.

No, the settings don't quite seem right, and that's not uncommon. Audyssey's auto setup is a great starting point, but I always have to go behind it and change the crossover frequencies, dialog level and subwoofer volume. I'd cross everything over at 80Hz, including the low-pass filter for the LFE channel. Maybe cross your satellites over at 100. Try it both ways and stick with what sounds better. Salt to taste. All your full-range speakers should be small.

Re: upgrading your center, I say watch a few movies and let your ears answer that question.

Thanks! Will give those settings a shot.

 

[zieglj01]

I would not go lower than 120 hz - you have small woofers (3") on the speakers

The -3 db of the sats are 121 hz (measured) and around 132 hz for the center

I would not go any lower than 120 hz - and even try 150 hz if it will sound more even.
Your aim/goal is to avoid holes in the frequency response between speakers and sub.

Your call

 

[Yardley]

I would not go lower than 120 hz - you have small woofers (3") on the speakers

The -3 db of the sats are 121 hz (measured) and around 132 hz for the center

I would not go any lower than 120 hz - and even try 150 hz if it will sound more even.
Your aim/goal is to avoid holes in the frequency response between speakers and sub.

Your call

So set all of the small sats to 120hz? What about the LPF for the LFE? 80hz ok?

 

[rojo]

Ah, yeah, I guess it might've helped if I'd Googled ProCinema 600. I didn't realize they were all satellites. Sorry about that. I'm not used to seeing Definitive Tech satellites. Go with zieg's advice. But the higher you set the subwoofer crossover, the more directional it'll sound. If you find you need to cross the LFE channel over much higher and you hear the bass as unbalanced, you might need to experiment moving your sub around and re-running Audyssey.

Maybe try the sub crossed over at 100Hz and see whether the 1/4 octave or so dip is noticeable. It might not be.

 

[Yardley]

I just tried going back and forth between 250 hz and 100 hz for the fronts while playing a song with a constant bass drum and with the LFE crossover at 120 hz. The 250 hz sounds fuller and bigger, with a bit of a drop when switching to 100 hz. With 150 hz for the fronts there isn't much of a difference.

 

[rojo]

Unfortunately, satellite systems like that aren't very good for music unless you're only sitting 3 feet away from them. I don't think you're going to be able to get the sound you're looking for without upgrading at least the front left and right speakers. They're probably not bad for movies, though. But for satisfactory music, you'll have to spend a little more I'm afraid. Any other interesting Craigslist deals nearby?

 

[Yardley]

Unfortunately, satellite systems like that aren't very good for music unless you're only sitting 3 feet away from them. I don't think you're going to be able to get the sound you're looking for without upgrading at least the front left and right speakers. They're probably not bad for movies, though. But for satisfactory music, you'll have to spend a little more I'm afraid. Any other interesting Craigslist deals nearby?

Music sounds great, I have a pair of $2000 Audio Physic Spark III tower speakers that I am selling and keeping the little satellites. (Gf doesn't like them) I was just trying to get the most out of my set up by having the correct crossover settings but I keep getting conflicting advice lol.

 

[TLS Guy]

Music sounds great, I have a pair of $2000 Audio Physic Spark III tower speakers that I am selling and keeping the little satellites. (Gf doesn't like them) I was just trying to get the most out of my set up by having the correct crossover settings but I keep getting conflicting advice lol.

I would bet that Audyssey has given you the optimal crossover settings.

Audyssey is very good for levels, distance and finding the crossover settings. Its Auto Eq however makes a hash of things generally. I have setup two systems with Audyssey. Both are complex and unusual. Since I'm the designer, I know exactly the correct set up for them. In both cases Audyssey achieved 100% on both setups right away. I can tell you that surprises me, especially the second case.

This small satellite speakers I bet get into trouble in the sub 250 to 200 Hz range, in fact I would bet a lot higher than that. There is no way those speakers have the power required for baffle step compensation and would be bound to sound very weak bodied.

I would use the crossover settings set by Audyssey. It will not be perfect as no sub is going to go high enough to correct for the baffle step losses of those satellites.

Big speakers really help!

 

[zieglj01]

This small satellite speakers I bet get into trouble in the sub 250 to 200 Hz range, in fact I would bet a lot higher than that. There is no way those speakers have the power required for baffle step compensation and would be bound to sound very weak bodied.

HT Labs measuremebts

 

[Yardley]

I would bet that Audyssey has given you the optimal crossover settings.

Audyssey is very good for levels, distance and finding the crossover settings. Its Auto Eq however makes a hash of things generally. I have setup two systems with Audyssey. Both are complex and unusual. Since I'm the designer, I know exactly the correct set up for them. In both cases Audyssey achieved 100% on both setups right away. I can tell you that surprises me, especially the second case.

This small satellite speakers I bet get into trouble in the sub 250 to 200 Hz range, in fact I would bet a lot higher than that. There is no way those speakers have the power required for baffle step compensation and would be bound to sound very weak bodied.

I would use the crossover settings set by Audyssey. It will not be perfect as no sub is going to go high enough to correct for the baffle step losses of those satellites.

Big speakers really help!

This is what I mean by conflicting advice. The guys over at AVS in a dedicated Definitive Tech thread say 100 hz is a good setting for these.

 

[Yardley]

HT Labs measuremebts

What does this mean?

 

[TLS Guy]

HT Labs measuremebts

That is a horrible response. You can see declining response at 1.5 KHz and the a horrible high Q resonance (honk) built in at 150 Hz. There is only one way those speakers will sound and that's awful.

Audysessy got it right. It detected where the speakers were rolling off and tamed the honk.

 

[zieglj01]

This is what I mean by conflicting advice. The guys over at AVS in a dedicated Definitive Tech thread say 100 hz is a good setting for these.

Not all the guys - read it again

 

[TLS Guy]

Not all the guys - read it again

Only if you like that honk!

 

[zieglj01]

What does this mean?

What it means is you took some poor advice from one person at the other forum,
and you ran 120 hz test tones on your front speakers - and you turned the volume
up, and blew two speakers. Note for the future > do not toy with small speakers.

It also means that 100 hz is too low to cross the speakers over with a sub. Just
as was stated in this thread, and at the other forum. The two speakers have no
real low bass. They do better from 150 hz up. > Look at the two lines green and
purple, where the line falls between 100 and 200.

Now try to find some bigger speakers.

 

[Yardley]

What it means is you took some poor advice from one person at the other forum,
and you ran 120 hz test tones on your front speakers - and you turned the volume
up, and blew two speakers. Note for the future > do not toy with small speakers.

It also means that 100 hz is too low to cross the speakers over with a sub. Just
as was stated in this thread, and at the other forum. The two speakers have no
real low bass. They do better from 150 hz up. > Look at the two lines green and
purple, where the line falls between 100 and 200.

Now try to find some bigger speakers.

Ha, I see you found the thread. I'm just going to stick with my original Onkyo speakers which are similar to the Definitive speakers. I was perfectly happy with those and I'll spare you the reason why I was upgrading to the Definitives because it's long. At least I have a new receiver with a second zone which is nice and this HSU sub really kicks.

On another note, do you think the person who gave me the bad advice was right about the speakers possibly being damaged? I mean I did ran Audyssey with the Onkyo speakers which are very similar to the Definitives and it came back with crossovers set to 120 hz instead of 250 like the Definitives which are supposed to be much better speakers than the Onkyos.

 

[zieglj01]

On another note, do you think the person who gave me the bad advice was right about the speakers possibly being damaged? I mean I did ran Audyssey with the Onkyo speakers which are very similar to the Definitives and it came back with crossovers set to 120 hz instead of 250 like the Definitives which are supposed to be much better speakers than the Onkyos.

No, I believe they were fine - till you down-loaded some test tones.
Then you ran them and raised the volume. Little box speakers are
not made for 120 hz test tones - that is not cool.

The Definitive is -3 db at 121 hz > however, it does not have a lot
of energy. > You stated that they did sound better with a sub from
150 hz up.

I for sure, am not a Onkyo speaker fan - I like the bigger Definitive
speakers, with 5-1/4 inch woofers and up.

If the girl-friend still wants to restrict you - I still would not but any
speaker smaller than the Cambridge S30, or Pioneer BS22 speakers.
They both have some good bass, and can crossover to a sub at 80 hz.

 

[Yardley]

No, I believe they were fine - till you down-loaded some test tones.
Then you ran them and raised the volume. Little box speakers are
not made for 120 hz test tones - that is not cool.

The Definitive is -3 db at 121 hz > however, it does not have a lot
of energy. > You stated that they did sound better with a sub from
150 hz up.

I for sure, am not a Onkyo speaker fan - I like the bigger Definitive
speakers, with 5-1/4 inch woofers and up.

If the girl-friend still wants to restrict you - I still would not but any
speaker smaller than the Cambridge S30, or Pioneer BS22 speakers.
They both have some good bass, and can crossover to a sub at 80 hz.

I was considering those Pioneers before but the center speaker is huge. I've got my center on a fireplace mantel, the Definitive 1000 is starting to push it size wise and I know that the front 3 speakers should match.