Need help finding a sub for Mirage OMNI speaker setup... please?

[reaunt]

Best sub to accompany Mirage OMNI 5.1 speaker setup?
I'm sorry to have to post one of these, as I'm sure they get tiring to read- but I've looked and I can't find a similar enough thread to really satisfy me that the advice was relavent to me. Please help me with finding a sub!

Room size:
16'-11" x 15'-0"
11'-9(1/2)" ceiling

At the moment, my audio setup consists of:

Main/Towers: 2 Mirage OMNI-250's
Bookshelves: 2 Mirage OMNI-50's
Center Console: 1 Mirage OMNI-CC
Reciever: Pioneer VSX-1014TX

I would like a sub to add to this system. It will be used at least 90% of the time for DVD and TV viewing, another 7-8% for Xboxing, and then the very rare 2-3% dip into a solely audio experience on my Denon DVD-2900.

I don't exactly have a budget. I'd like to keep my cost reasonable when compared to what i've spent on the other audio equipment I have... but I don't need anything that's overkill. Paying more then $800 would require some serious thought for me. I've been looking at everything from the entry level SVS, to the HSU equivolent- but without being able to audition the subs (I have a health problem that restricts me to staying home 99% of the time that i'm not in the hospital), I'm kind of screwed.

The idea of a DIY is appealing to me... I've been told I can get a monster sub that fits whatever needs I have -perfectly-, if I find the right sub and have the right box built. I have a friend who I think would build the box for me, so labor isn't a problem.

If I buy a pre-made sub, it needs to be under 27" in at least one direction. I live in an old victorian house, and the doorway is SMALL to get into my den. We can't get a standard sofa into the room, nor can we get many of the chairs we had planned to put in the room, through the door. This may mean that I *have* to do a DIY- and the sub box would be constructed to live its entire life in this room.

Any thoughts are welcome... please help a guy out! The room has a wooden floor, we have no plans to carpet it beyond possibly a small throw rug.

I also need help with speaker placement in the room if anyone feels like helping me with that. I can email/post rough blueprints of the room as it exists now, and one possible alternative already reccomeneded to me... just ask and i'd be happy to help you help me!

Thanks.

~Sam

 

[Rob Babcock]

Welcome to AH! Don't worry if your question seems very basic- you picked the correct place to ask it! I'm not that familiar with those Mirages, but I don't think there's any reason they'd present any special problems to sub integration. Certainly the Hsu subs you mention are superb subs. Don't worry too much about auditioning them in a store- your home is really the only environment that's relevant, and you just can't tell how it will sound in the store.

A few internet companies come to mind: Hsu Research, Adire Audio (their 'Rava' sub would probably fit the bill very well), Outlaw Audio, Axiom & SVS. All these companies make very good subs, plus all offer excellent customer service. The best part is that they all have very good return policies. So if the sub doesn't perform well in your home, they'll let you return 'em with no hassle. Some will even refund shipping. If you go that route, they can easily give you exact dimensions to be sure it'll fit (although that shouldn't be a problem- 27" is pretty large).

Adire Audio is very big with DIY'ers, and their 12" Shiva sub driver is legendary. They sell kits for DIY and have a forum dedicated to making your own. Dan is a really good guy and will help you out if you go that route. Honestly, though, there are such good subs you can buy in the same range that it almost doesn't pay to build one, except just for the satisfaction of rolling your own.

As far as placement goes, if you post a diagram we'd be happy to chime in with suggestions. Those ceilings are pretty high, which can be a good thing, but it will increase the room volume, requiring more power to pressurize. It'll also move the room modes around a bit vs a more standard 8' ceiling. Your room is close to square, which means some bass traps might be a good idea.

A sub will really make your home theater come alive, and it'll REALLY supercharge your Xbox gaming! There's nothing like cranking up some MechAssault or HALO with a good sub to rearrange the furniture.

Let us know if we can help you out any further.

 

[reaunt]

Wow.. .thanks for the great reply. There's a lot of info in there for me to go back over, so I'll throw up my first response now, and get back to specifics once I think I understand a bit better!

Who is Dan? Interested in getting in contact with this person, as someone else reccomended Shiva to me, and I'd love to hear why. Previously I was just told "Get the entry SVS. Get the entry SVS" and nobody really has explained why I'd want that pb10 (i think that's what it's called), rather then the pb12, or any other sub.

I have been trying to find a good layout for the furnature in my room- and in doing so have made really rough drafts in MSpaint.
Here is the link for what my room looks like currently. Please ignore the random (17') that is shown to the left, i'm not sure why that is there. There is also text on the image, as I was asking about speaker placement in general as well (to which I still have no answer)... because not only do I not know where to put my sub, I have no idea where to put my speakers to get any kind of decent sound. I figured over here I would find the sub I was going to use first- and THEN ask where to put all my speakers

This is another idea that was had for placement... The room isn't set up like this right now, but it could be with a little hassle and renting out the neighbors for an hour or so:

There is also no carpet on the floor- should I look into rubber pads to add to the bottom of any sub I buy, or what?

Thanks so much for replying... i really hope you can help me straighten this out. I'm getting kind of worried that my room setup has damned me from the start, and I'll have to always "settle" from what I had my heart set on. At this point, I honestly don't even expect to be able to pull off a 5.1 setup... and that's what I was hoping for at a bare minimum

~Sam

 

[Mudcat]

The only problem that I see is that in either arrangement, you have get up to get to the fridge.

 

[reaunt]

The only problem that I see is that in either arrangement, you have get up to get to the fridge.

The only problem? You can always ask people to grab something for you on the way into the room! I'm more worried about the apparent horrible soundstage that is created with speakers in the corners!

Heck, fix my problem and I'll drag the fridge into the room and put it RIGHT next to you. Deal?

(edit): I think I want to test out an HSU and an SVS (that is, unless someone here has a rock solid reccomendation of one special sub that they're positive will work exactly how I need it to). Do they both have that policy about letting you return the sub if you don't like how it stacks up with the competition? If so, I'll order both, and see which one sounds best to me. Now all I need to someone to help me figure out what model of each brand to get! Please help me out

Also, let me know what other information is needed to better advise about placement of the rest of my 5.1 setup.

I feel like there are questions I should be asking, and I just can't think of what they are... it's frusterating. I can't wait to have this done! Feel free to re-arrange my room if you can think of a better way to situate the furnature for speaker placement...

 

[Rob Babcock]

Sorry! "Dan" is Dan Wiggins, the head of Adire. You wouldn't necessarily always reach him if you call the company, but he used to have a forum at AC (he ultimately didn't have enough time to maintian the forum as he also has his own).

The method you suggest is great if you can afford to temporarily have both subs. Try 'em out "head to head" and send back whichever one you think is the lesser of them. You can certainly call both companies toll free to verify their policies, but so far as I know they both have 30 money back guarentees.

 

[Topper]

Reaunt,
For what it's worth, I have a Velodyne DLS-375R sub with my Mirage Omni setup that I think works great. My system is as follows; The receiver is a Yamaha RX-V2500. Up front, a pair of OM-9 towers and a OM-CC, mid way back a pair of OM-R2s and around back a pair of OM-60s. The Velodyne is a GREAT sub! Our room is 17' wide and 27' long (TVs at 17' end) this system fills the room with great sound. We have a new house and the windows are Andersons with the grills mounted inside the house. Well I had to put little peices of white foam between the grills and the glass because the Velodyne was shakin' the place so much it was making the grills go crazy!!!
Topper

 

[Rob Babcock]

How do you access the closet in the bottom of the drawing? Or is the door in the other room?

I'd say the proposed arrangement you posted on the bottom is sound. I'd probably designate the chair in the middle of the wall to the right of the drawing as "the money seat," or prime listening position, go for optimizing the sound for that spot (assuming it's going to be just you much of the time). Mount the surrounds high on the side walls flanking the money seat. Then set the speakers up flanking the TV, as wide as is practical given your other furnishings, and put the center on top of the TV. On top of the TV isn't necessarily the perfect place, but in most peoples rooms its the best compromise. Stanmounted in front would be great if it's at all practical (probably isn't, I'll admit).

Last I'd suggest a few room treatments would be nice. Depending upon your budget there's lots of things you can do. Adding a few peices of foam would be helpful if you have to mount the speakers very close to the walls. Some DIY bass traps would be nice, or you could hang some Mini-Traps from the corners. Eighth Nerve makes some effective & funcional treatments that look nice and won't break the bank.

 

[reaunt]

Thanks for the rec, Topper- I'll look into that sub

Rob-

The closet in the room is kind of a lost cause. There is so much storage on this floor of the house, that as it stands I don't need access to it. With the daybed there (the daybed has wheels), I can easily roll it aside in the unlikely event I need to stash something in the closet- and once I replace the daybed with a sofa, I'll just make sure it's a light enough sofa that I can drag it away from the door if I have to. I guess I'm just going to pretend the closet isn't there, and make sure that anything I put in there is seasonal or just rarely used.

The idea of making the "right side chair" into 'the money seat' is exactly what I was hoping to do. I'll probably end up turning off the radiator that's behind the recliner, just to make sure I don't end up destroying the fabric of the chair. If it gets too cold in the winter, there are always blankets... or I can just scooch the chair into the room center a little bit, and crank the heat on the radiator back up.

Room treatments. This is an area I know -nothing- about... Where would I add the foam due to mounting the speakers close to the wall? What is a bass trap, and why is it important to use one?

I'm positive that I'm going to order at least one sub from SVS to test... Now i just need to figure out which one, and which sub from HSU it makes sense to try out in competition. I don't just want to get the most expensive HSU sub and hope for the best... but that's the only advice I've gotten so far (get the most expensive one you can afford from either)

Thanks for the continued help.

~Sam

 

[wafflebird]

Velodyne will be tough to beat

High Reaunt,

I have 4 Mirage Omnisats and an Omni CC with a Yamaha RX-V2500, after extensive auditioning I went with the Velodyne DLS-3750R. Impressed is an understatement. It is more than I ever expected. And let me tell you this sub is infinatly adjustable with a remote. There are times when the bass may need to uh.... be turned down, and you can simply do it with the remote without having to actually adjust the master volume of your receiver. It has 4 different settings on the remote that actually make a difference. Movies has the most bass, then games, then R&B / Rock the Jazz Classical. I use the remote quite a lot, each tv show or movie can have different sound qualities and sometimes an adjustment is needed to make it sound just the way you want it to. The remote makes this a snap.

This sub can rock the fillings from your teeth or be so smooth and warm it is amazing. Comming from a passive (non-powered) sub to this sub has been like comming from dark to daylight.

Really take a close look (listen) to any thing Velodyne makes but think closely about the ability to control the output with a remote instead of having to constantly get behind the sub, or just having to deal with it not sounding quite the way you want it to.

This is an incredible sub!!!!!!!!

 

[WmAx]

I have been trying to find a good layout for the furnature in my room- and in doing so have made really rough drafts in MSpaint.

Just a tip -- omnipolar speakers benefit from having the 1st rear/side reflections(don't try to purposely damp/diffuse these 1st reflection points) as long as the path of directed/reflected sound is at least 5ms(1ms is roughly equal to 1 foot, so you can calculate the total travel path from the speaker using this figure) difference to th elistening position. If you are to benefit from the omnipolar setup, abandon the caddy corner concept as your first picture with the TV in the corner would suggest. The speakers need to be set up in a conventional manner in order to benefit from the reflections, which add depth/ambience to sound. Otherwise you may as well have standard radiating speakers if you intend to diffuse/damp the 1st reflections. <shrug>

-Chris