SVS PB13-Ultra Subwoofer Review

A

admin

Audioholics Robot
Staff member
The SVS PB13-Ultra subwoofer is among the best subwoofers we've ever tested. It features a 1000 watt Sledge amplifier and proprietary 13.5" high excursion driver. From its top notch cabinetry and components to its earth shattering performance, there is little NOT to like about this subwoofer (other than its sheer size and weight). The PB13-Ultra subwoofer received our coveted "Extreme" Bassaholic rating thanks to its massive output capabilities all the way down to the lowest audible octave. The PB13-Ultra displayed excellent distortion performance even when driven near its limits, and the well executed limiting and compressor circuits ensure that the product is virtually bulletproof. It had no trouble putting out plenty of high quality bass in our rather tough to fill theater room and always sounded composed during the listening sessions. The PB13-Ultra is a very powerful subwoofer that is competently engineered, heavily built, bulletproof, high tech and high output, possessing true extension to below 20Hz and a ton of configurability options. It's a clear winner!


Discuss "SVS PB13-Ultra Subwoofer Review" here. Read the article.
 
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GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
Finally a proper review for this monster sub. This review makes my happy and proud to own one, they are well worth the money.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Finally a proper review for this monster sub. This review makes my happy and proud to own one, they are well worth the money.
This review makes me want to trade in my reference subs :eek:
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Let me preface this section by saying that I am a little peculiar about subjective listening impressions as far as subwoofers in general and bass itself is concerned. I am a bit of an objectivist at heart. In general there are a couple of different things that I believe will directly impact how the bass sounds to the listener. These are in no particular order:
available output headroom and ability to track the dynamics of the signal
distortion behavior
overall frequency response shape and extension
response in the time domain
integration with the speakers reproducing the upper frequencies
proper level matching between the speakers and subwoofer(s).
I also believe that most of these things can be quantified through objective measurements and correlated with subjective listening impressions with good results. If you get these basic areas covered then you are well on your way to being able to realize good bass at your listening chair.
10/10 review that covers all the relevant measurements necessary to evaluate the subwoofer rather than perpetuating the constant bias against vented subwoofers.

This review makes me want to trade in my reference subs
You should do eight FW18.0 EQed flat to 5hz. It'll have no limit to dynamics if you can feed it watts, and the infrasonics would be ridiculous. You can try all the different subs in the world, but nothing would beat some LMS-5400s doing 115+db @ 7hz on all the five movies in the world that demand it.
 
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Cruise Missile

Cruise Missile

Full Audioholic
With the older 750 watt BASH amps. our two PB-13 Ultras are frightening at times. Visceral is an understatement when describing their LFE reproduction.

Bravo SVS for improving an already amazing product!
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
You should do eight FW18.0 EQed flat to 5hz. It'll have no limit to dynamics if you can feed it watts, and the infrasonics would be ridiculous.
$25,000 for 8 FW18.0 and probably something like 25,000 watts needed just for the subs. That's also fairly ridiculous...although it would be an amazing system :)
 
J

Jeff R.

Audioholic General
I see many people on the forum recommend this subwoofer, assume it is truly fantastic in every sense. One thing I have not figured out is why so many folks talk about the importance of having 2 subs in a room to help smooth response. Is it better to own 1 PB13 at almost $2000 vs owning dual Rythmik FV 15s for a similar price....

The reason I ask is I am currently trying to sell my dual A2-300s and upgrade. I will have a budget close to about $1500 and trying to creep closer to the $2000 mark.....I keep telling my self I need dual subs......yet most of the people in the forum with a sub like a PB13 only have a single in their room.

Am I missing something.....

Thanks

Jeff
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
That's also fairly ridiculous...although it would be an amazing system :)
:D

Granted, an alternative might be 4X good subs, + a thigpen rotary or two :eek:

I see many people on the forum recommend this subwoofer, assume it is truly fantastic in every sense. One thing I have not figured out is why so many folks talk about the importance of having 2 subs in a room to help smooth response. Is it better to own 1 PB13 at almost $2000 vs owning dual Rythmik FV 15s for a similar price....

The reason I ask is I am currently trying to sell my dual A2-300s and upgrade. I will have a budget close to about $1500 and trying to creep closer to the $2000 mark.....I keep telling my self I need dual subs......yet most of the people in the forum with a sub like a PB13 only have a single in their room.

Am I missing something.....
A PB13U costs about $2000... two costs $4000. that's really the gist of it... not many people willing to spend 4k on subs but get zealous with an attempt to get a world beater I personally would definitely do two FV15HPs over one PB13U. In this article, seemed to prefer two 8" """subs""" over one 12" sub

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/two-subs

When you get to the high end, you still want multiples, you just get to squeeze more

1) dynamic headroom
2) extension

out of it.

Whereas multiples address the room, bigger and badder addressed pressurizing the room.

The ultimate system has multiples spaced throughout the room, AND big and bad, and they're probably sealed or infinite baffle not because it sounds better but because it's most likely to pressurize the room in the deepest of the useless infrasonics.
 
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Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
I think that for people who can nearly afford it, but not quite, they might want to look at the cylinder version, which saves $300:

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pc13ultra.cfm

It is also easier to move (weighing only 90 pounds [105 in packaging] and a good shape for grabbing onto it) and takes up less floor space. I don't think I would want to pay an extra $300 for something that weighs about half again as much and is harder to grab onto and takes up more floor space.

I have SVS cylinders now (an older version of the Ultra), and if I ever needed to replace them, I would want cylinders again. But I don't think I ever will replace them. Even though they are not as good as the new ones, they are still great.
 
GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
I see many people on the forum recommend this subwoofer, assume it is truly fantastic in every sense. One thing I have not figured out is why so many folks talk about the importance of having 2 subs in a room to help smooth response. Is it better to own 1 PB13 at almost $2000 vs owning dual Rythmik FV 15s for a similar price....

The reason I ask is I am currently trying to sell my dual A2-300s and upgrade. I will have a budget close to about $1500 and trying to creep closer to the $2000 mark.....I keep telling my self I need dual subs......yet most of the people in the forum with a sub like a PB13 only have a single in their room.

Am I missing something.....

Thanks

Jeff
I'd have dual Ultras if I could afford it, but they aren't cheap. Nice to see someone else here from the QC.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
I see many people on the forum recommend this subwoofer, assume it is truly fantastic in every sense. One thing I have not figured out is why so many folks talk about the importance of having 2 subs in a room to help smooth response. Is it better to own 1 PB13 at almost $2000 vs owning dual Rythmik FV 15s for a similar price....

The reason I ask is I am currently trying to sell my dual A2-300s and upgrade. I will have a budget close to about $1500 and trying to creep closer to the $2000 mark.....I keep telling my self I need dual subs......yet most of the people in the forum with a sub like a PB13 only have a single in their room.

Am I missing something.....

Thanks

Jeff

In general, there is an advantage to one subwoofer for x dollars instead of two subwoofers for that same amount, because that one can usually be a significantly better subwoofer than the two. And that often means deeper bass will be possible, and might also be capable of being louder.

Now, the advantage to two is that you can alleviate some room acoustic problems by having the bass originate from two places in the room. How much that matters, though, depends upon the particular room and the particular placement and listening position we are talking about.

In general, I advise people to buy the single best subwoofer that they can afford. Not only do they end up with a better subwoofer that way, but they also have an easy and efficient future upgrade path, by simply buying another one like the one they bought. If they had purchased two subwoofers, they probably will want to sell them both and replace them both to upgrade, which costs them more money, as one typically loses money by selling things one bought previously.


In my case, I own a pair of SVS CS-Ultra subwoofers that I bought used together some years ago. I like having two, but I could easily live with just one of them. Actually, I could probably live with just one of the Plus models from that era, but I have what I have and will not downgrade.

If I were rich, I would probably upgrade to new Ultras, but it would be extremely frivolous, as the ones I have are great. Just not as great as the new ones. As things are, I have no plans on ever upgrading them.
 
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Ricci

Ricci

Bassaholic
I think that for people who can nearly afford it, but not quite, they might want to look at the cylinder version, which saves $300:

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pc13ultra.cfm

It is also easier to move (weighing only 90 pounds [105 in packaging] and a good shape for grabbing onto it) and takes up less floor space. I don't think I would want to pay an extra $300 for something that weighs about half again as much and is harder to grab onto and takes up more floor space.
Good point. If you were buying duals you would be up to $600 in savings.
 
J

Jeff R.

Audioholic General
Pyrrho - So do you think that a PB13 could have better output than a pair of FV15s....on the surface it seems impossible...but I am not by any way an expert on subwoofer/cabinet design/efficiency etc...
 
S

scott911

Full Audioholic
why does everyone piss and moan about weight so much?

Subs and speakers are generally build in heavy wooden cabinets, with heavy magnets that are heavy for a reason.


Grandma, buying table top radio at kmart, might like it that her pink plastic emerson is nice and light weight. But an audiophile, and reader (or writer) on audioholics???

I can't understand why heavy is in the "cons" box of every good subwoofer on this website.

I move my subs around less often that I have to move my refrigerator to retrieve a lost paper, or fix a leak. And when I went shopping for a fridge, wondering if it was going to be too heavy for me to handle was never a concern.

:eek: GROW some people! Offer to share a six pack with an office-mate to help you move it while adjusting position if you need to... Or maybe grandma can turn up Rush on the emerson and come help you out.
 
Cruise Missile

Cruise Missile

Full Audioholic
I think the weight being listed as a con is another way of saying there's no cons. You can't list pros and cons without something in the cons.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Subs and speakers are generally build in heavy wooden cabinets, with heavy magnets that are heavy for a reason.


Grandma, buying table top radio at kmart, might like it that her pink plastic emerson is nice and light weight. But an audiophile, and reader (or writer) on audioholics???

I can't understand why heavy is in the "cons" box of every good subwoofer on this website.

I move my subs around less often that I have to move my refrigerator to retrieve a lost paper, or fix a leak. And when I went shopping for a fridge, wondering if it was going to be too heavy for me to handle was never a concern.

GROW some people! Offer to share a six pack with an office-mate to help you move it while adjusting position if you need to... Or maybe grandma can turn up Rush on the emerson and come help you out.
As a reviewer with multiple bulging and herniated discs I acquired over a lifetime of bodybuilding and lifting ridiculously heavy products (thank you Denon and RBH Sound), weight is a huge problem for me now :eek:
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Pyrrho - So do you think that a PB13 could have better output than a pair of FV15s....on the surface it seems impossible...but I am not by any way an expert on subwoofer/cabinet design/efficiency etc...
In order to examine a specific example, we need to see actual measurements of the subwoofers in question. You certainly cannot judge this by the size of the drivers, the numbers of them, or the power used to drive the speakers.

In answer to your question as asked, yes, I think a PB13 could have better output than a pair of FV15s. But the only way to know whether that is the case or not would be to actually look at measurements.


One should also remember that it is entirely possible for one subwoofer to have higher output at higher frequencies, and another subwoofer to go deeper. There is always that sort of choice by the manufacturers, whether to give higher output or deeper bass, at any particular price point, and which is better depends on how they will be used and what is desired of them.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
It's great to see the objective measurements to back up what my own subjective listening told me about this SVSound PB13-Ultra DSP!

I was EXTREMELY impressed with the performance of the PB13-Ultra DSP when I heard one of the first units. I literally couldn't find a single thing to complain about. My only thought was that the only thing a more expensive sub could offer would be more output. And for the vast majority of people, there's no way they would ever require more output in a typical home - even one with a large home theater.

I'm personally less inclined to believe in the importance of being able to produce frequencies below 16Hz. For one thing, there are exceedingly few recordings that contain any information below 20Hz, let alone anything below 16Hz (which itself only crops up in pipe organ music or synthesized bass). While it's sort of cool to see a sub produce a measured response at 10 or 12Hz, I've never personally seen any real value in such performance because I literally cannot hear it and such frequencies basically don't exist in any normal material! (only in test tones).

So for me, I'm much more concerned with being able to really hit 20Hz with solid, non-compressed output. And since I can hear down to 18Hz (at least according to the testing that I underwent), I enjoy hearing a subwoofer that can extend down to that frequency. But the real meat is in being able to hit 20Hz with essentially the same output as the frequencies above 20Hz with frequency response that remains flat even as the SPL is increased.

My own subjective listening told me that the PB13-Ultra achieved my desires better than any subwoofer I had heard before. And the measurements in this review absolutely appear to back up my experience! 110dB CLEAN at 20Hz in what is essentially an quasi-anechoic environment?! That is amazing performance. But even more amazing is how the frequency response remains flat whether the output is 85dB or 105dB! THAT'S the kind of performance I've been dreaming of ever since my very first HTiB! lol :p And it's the kind of performance that even a very, very nice subwoofer like my Axiom EP500 just cannot deliver.

The price, the size and the weight? I hope people understand that if you really want performance at this level, there's no cheating the physics and the cost! IMO, this is about as small and inexpensive as anyone can make a subwoofer that performs this way. It is WAY less expensive than many subs that cannot even match this level of performance. Personally, I don't agree with docking a half a star for the "Value" rating. While it's true that most people likely don't have the budget for a $2000 subwoofer, I'd ask that Audioholics present to me a subwoofer that can match the PB13-Ultra DSP's performance while costing less! Then, and only then, would I agree that the PB13-Ultra DSP deserves anything less than a 5-star "Value" rating. And I say that because I know that achieving similar performance typically costs WAY more. There's cost and there's value. And while the PB13-Ultra DSP ain't cheap, it's value is still through the roof!

Anywho, I already trusted my ears, but it's nice to see the measurements line up exactly with my own perception. The fact that any "normal" person could conceivably afford this sub is what has had me so excited about it. This is not some $35,000 item that no normal person could ever own. This is a $2000 sub - and that includes the shipping to your door! That's simply outstanding. And while I've seen a handful of people bemoaning the fact that SVSound is no longer a "cheap" subwoofer company (no sub less than $679 anymore), I'd argue that they are making and selling the best subwoofer that they have ever offered and they are doing so at prices that don't really reflect just how good these SVSes really are!
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
A number amount of movies have plenty of sub-20hz material...I imagine we'll see more of them in the future as well.

With that being said, the performance of the PB13 is fantastic and I would love to have one or more :)
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Subs and speakers are generally build in heavy wooden cabinets, with heavy magnets that are heavy for a reason.


Grandma, buying table top radio at kmart, might like it that her pink plastic emerson is nice and light weight. But an audiophile, and reader (or writer) on audioholics???

I can't understand why heavy is in the "cons" box of every good subwoofer on this website.

I move my subs around less often that I have to move my refrigerator to retrieve a lost paper, or fix a leak. And when I went shopping for a fridge, wondering if it was going to be too heavy for me to handle was never a concern.

:eek: GROW some people! Offer to share a six pack with an office-mate to help you move it while adjusting position if you need to... Or maybe grandma can turn up Rush on the emerson and come help you out.
I think a high weight is a vice, especially when it is totally unnecessary. The solution in this instance is easy and actually saves one money as well:

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pc13ultra.cfm

Compare weight with:

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb13ultra.cfm

Notice, they are the same woofer and the same amplifier; it is the cabinet that is very different.

Reasonable weight can be combined with great performance. But apparently many people have a prejudice that their subwoofer must be a box, as that is what they are used to seeing. I have cylinders, and I like that they don't take up much floor space, are a size and shape that is easy to grab onto, and they do not weigh more than I can handle on my own without trouble. Mine, though, are less weight than the ones at the link above:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_2/svs-cs-ultra-subwoofers-5-2002.html

Having the amplifier not built in makes them weigh less.

Anyway, there is absolutely no need for good subwoofers to weigh as much as they typically do. All one needs to do is make them a shape that is inherently stronger, and then the sides do not need the same thickness or bracing to provide the same performance. Thus, they can weigh significantly less and still give the same performance.
 

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