HDMI Cable Speed Tests Fact or Fiction?

gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Considering that an HDMI cable is, at bottom, nothing more than an arrangement of wire, foil and plastic, the purchase of HDMI cables have become awfully confusing. Everywhere one turns, there are all sorts of specification version numbers being tossed around, claims about HDMI cable "speed," and representations about support for 3D, 2K by 4K video, 1080p, Deep Color, and a host of other features. What does it all mean?

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Techlord

Audioholic
Wow I actually read the whole artical, I even learn stuff that I didn't know! I despise Monster-ous companies who use false advertisements to try and trick the consumer out of their hard earned money! Just a year ago I purchased a 240Hz LCD HDTV and was confused as to why Monster Cable didn't yet have a 240Hz HDMI cable on the market! People would post that they were looking for a 240Hz cable to go with their 240Hz TV, some cable companies purposely try their best to trick you into buying their ultra espensive HDMI cables. Shame falls on these companies, I personally will NEVER buy a Monster Cable product in my lifetime!!


Regards,
Techlord.
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
great info!

i was actually starting to believe all that stuff written on the packaging.

:eek:

i guess it's been awhile since i've take a bath in the AH pool of truth.
 
fightinkraut

fightinkraut

Full Audioholic
That's a great article, very well written. As much as I love Monoprice, I'll be checking out BJC for my next purchase. Thanks for spreading the truth, I'll be sending this link to many friends!
 
M

MatthewB.

Audioholic General
Monster Brand Kool-Aid (endorsed by religious figures like the Rev. Jim Jones) :cool:
I own a Monster HDMI (given to me when I bought my Bluray player and it failed within three months) , the 4.00 HDMI cable bought at Parts Express has worked flawlessly for years now.
 
P

palmharbor

Junior Audioholic
Report incomplete

The issue that is not discussed at all is the length of an HDMI cable.
I do not want to spend the extra money for a HD receiver or BlueRay
player for the bedroom HD TV. I don't know if a 25-30 foot cable will work or produce no or a distorted signal. I can hook one up to go to the bedroom but I am not sure of the outcome and this article failed to mention the affect distance has on transmitting a digital signal.
 
K

KurtBJC

Audioholic
The issue that is not discussed at all is the length of an HDMI cable.
I do not want to spend the extra money for a HD receiver or BlueRay
player for the bedroom HD TV. I don't know if a 25-30 foot cable will work or produce no or a distorted signal. I can hook one up to go to the bedroom but I am not sure of the outcome and this article failed to mention the affect distance has on transmitting a digital signal.
That wasn't particularly what we were addressing here, but we do have an article about it: How Far Can HDMI Cable Be Run?.

25 feet is at the outside of the length range for a Category 2 "High Speed" certification; our Series-1 cable is certified at that length, and I do not know of any others that are (excepting, of course, cables with built-in booster/EQ units). In practice, you're likely to get along fine at 30 feet, or at 25 with a cable that isn't actually Category 2 certified, but the point being made here, in part, is simply that if you want to know whether a cable is certified for your application, you need to get the vendor to show you the certificate.

Kurt
HDMI Cable at Blue Jeans Cable
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
SWEET!

Do you thinks it's even possible to go longer distances with HDMI cables?

My real wish is for someday fiber optics to get down to a reasonable cost. But considering the cost regular ethernet fiber media converters, I doubt it will ever happen. The dual Cat5e sollution is nice, but still seems like it would end up hitting the bandwidth wall in the future.

I guess you can tell I'm not a fan of the current HDMI cables and specs. It was a good idea when first conceived, but went to poop shortly there after. :mad:
 
K

KurtBJC

Audioholic
Well, the question of HDMI and distance is, on the whole, a complicated one. Certainly for extreme long runs, fiber-optic solutions are the ideal, but they tend to get pricey.

As long as the spec remains what it currently is, it's going to be very hard for anybody to greatly exceed the lengths which are now doable on conventional copper cable. The problem basically is that there's only so much permissible attenuation. The spec allows you to either pass a set of attenuation benchmarks or pass an eye-pattern test; a pass of either, even with the other failing, will pass the overall test and be compliant. At 23.5 AWG, the Series-1 fails the attenuation benchmark tests well before it fails the eye-pattern, but the eye-pattern itself, indirectly, imposes limits on attenuation, too, because if the amplitude of the signal drops too low, it'll start to impinge on the eye mask.

We have been back and forth with Belden on some development ideas to try to further extend the reach. The problem is that, with the bonded-pair design already having the return loss well under control, the only way to improve distance performance on the eye-pattern is to either reduce attenuation (which would require bigger wire, and correspondingly bigger dielectrics--and the cable is big enough already!) or to reduce capacitance. Capacitance is tightly tied to impedance, which is required to be 100 ohms on these data lines, and the only way to improve capacitance while holding impedance steady is to go to a different dielectric material--but, without going into too much detail there, it's fair to say that when you change dielectrics from good old solid PE to something with a lower dielectric constant, you start to face a new set of problems with dimension control and manufacturing consistency.

So, while I wouldn't be surprised if we're able to put out a 30-foot Category 2 cable sometime (we're about to start ATC testing on our new Ethernet designs), I'll be very surprised if, barring a complete change in the spec, we're ever able to put out a 40-foot Category 2 cable. Likewise, we might stretch the Series-F2, our 28 AWG cable, from 15/25 in Cat 1/2 to 20/30. We'll see.

The existing design unfortunately bears the stamp of HDMI's lowly origins. It was made backward-compatible with DVI, which was designed to be a computer-monitor interface, and which therefore was not usually needed to run over distance. Computer engineers seem to have a thing for twisted-pair data cables, and I think that the spec was written without a strong appreciation for just what kinds of problems a balanced-line configuration would create. The cable's got to have very high manufacturing consistency to avoid skew (intrapair and interpair) and return loss, and if HDMI had been run unbalanced (i.e., on coax) things would be easier.

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable
 
K

KurtBJC

Audioholic
Here is a company that is trying to rate and certify them.
I know those guys--nice fellows, but I think their methodology is wrong. Among other things, they're not testing cable at high speeds with equalization as the spec would require, and that distorts the results. In particular, a cable with higher capacitive losses and lower return loss will EQ out better than a cable with higher retun loss and lower capacitive loss, and if you fail to EQ, you can't tell the difference. In official HDMI Compliance Testing, the highest bitrate (3.4 Gbps/channel, 10.2 total) is always EQ'd, and a cable like ours actually performs much, much better at that extreme high bandwidth test than it does at the highest non-EQ'd compliance test tier (1.65 Gbps/channel, 4.95 total).

Kurt
HDMI Cable at Blue Jeans Cable
 
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