Panamax-Furman MIW-XT Remote Power Review

[admin]

If you want a flat panel to "float" on a wall, you're going to need to run power to it without risking burning down the house. The MIW-XT is an all-in-one solution that might just fit your needs. With a dedicated power run and a space for a Decora-style insert, adaptor for keystone inserts, or a rubber grommet passthrough, the MIW-XT can accommodate your power and cabling needs.

Discuss "Panamax-Furman MIW-XT Remote Power Review" here. Read the article.

 

[Bryce_H]

I have an older version of one of these for my project (on the ceiling) and installed it when I finished the basement into a dedicated HT. Everything worked great and it allowed me to have my projector plugged into my surge protector in the component closet. Agree a touch on the pricey side, but better than needing to replace a blown projector

 

[Omega Supreme]

A couple of questions. Is it really dangerous to run a good quality 12ga. extension cord in and interior wall? I have a 12ga. ext. cord that I use for a air compressor, saws, shop lights (and other shop tools) that never even gets warm. I also have a cheap 14ga (I think) ext. cord that I use for my lawn edger and leaf blower that doesn't get hot or even warm. Wouldn't these pull more current than a TV.? My 50" plasma came with a cord that was about 6' long and I have it running thru the wall (about 4' is in the wall). It has been that way for about 5 years. Should I redo it so it isn't running in the wall? I didn't realize the TV’s power cord was not rated to run in-wall. Anyway, if I need to redo this could I just not make an extension cord out of some 12ga romex that I have laying around. That would probably cost about $4 instead of $150.

 

[Rickster71]

A couple of questions. Is it really dangerous to run a good quality 12ga. extension cord in and interior wall? I have a 12ga. ext. cord that I use for a air compressor, saws, shop lights (and other shop tools) that never even gets warm. I also have a cheap 14ga (I think) ext. cord that I use for my lawn edger and leaf blower that doesn't get hot or even warm. Wouldn't these pull more current than a TV.? My 50" plasma came with a cord that was about 6' long and I have it running thru the wall (about 4' is in the wall). It has been that way for about 5 years. Should I redo it so it isn't running in the wall? I didn't realize the TV’s power cord was not rated to run in-wall. Anyway, if I need to redo this could I just not make an extension cord out of some 12ga romex that I have laying around. That would probably cost about $4 instead of $150.

It's not the size of the wire that's the problem; it's the insulation.
The insulation on the cord is not approved for in-wall use, it against the electrical code.
Romex is the way to go for in-wall.

What it comes down to is; insurance companies are looking for any excuse to not pay a claim.
'If' you ever have an electrical fire, and the insurance adjuster saw the extension cord in the wall. (code violation)
They wouldn't pay the claim.

 

[Omega Supreme]

I guess I understand why an extension cord is not rated for in-wall use because you could have various appliances plugged into it. The extension cord mfg. can't calculate what load people will put on it to say it is safe for in-wall use. I guess that is why that extension cords are against code. But the TV mfg. knows what load the TV will use thus able to create a power cable that will be safe in your wall. Is the TV power cable not rated for in-wall use? I looked at my manual online and it did not have any info. that said that you could not run it in-wall. I know that the wire size is not the issue (unless you’re trying to run a heavy load on an old 18ga. Cord) but the insulation is. But the insulation on the power cord from my TV is 5 times that of romex.

 

[Audioholics]

Is the TV power cable not rated for in-wall use?

Nope. Gotta use 12/2 power cable in-wall. It's not going to be code no matter how much you want to break the rules... lol.

 

[Omega Supreme]

I’m not trying to be hard headed here but what does the code say? Is it really unsafe to run the TV power cord, that is only handling the load of the TV and has a lot more insulation than 12/2 power cable, in the wall? It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Rickster71]

I guess I understand why an extension cord is not rated for in-wall use because you could have various appliances plugged into it. The extension cord mfg. can't calculate what load people will put on it to say it is safe for in-wall use. I guess that is why that extension cords are against code. But the TV mfg. knows what load the TV will use thus able to create a power cable that will be safe in your wall. Is the TV power cable not rated for in-wall use? I looked at my manual online and it did not have any info. that said that you could not run it in-wall. I know that the wire size is not the issue (unless you’re trying to run a heavy load on an old 18ga. Cord) but the insulation is. But the insulation on the power cord from my TV is 5 times that of romex.

It has nothing to do with the ampacity of the wire. A receptacle can be overloaded just as easily as a power cord.
It has to do with flame spread. Romex and / or in-wall rated wire won't support combustion, once the ignition source is removed.
Power cords are considered temporary by the NEC (National Electrical Code) and are not rated for in-wall use.

An extension cord does not have more insulation than Romex wire. It's also the 'type' of insulation that counts.

 

[highfigh]

A couple of questions. Is it really dangerous to run a good quality 12ga. extension cord in and interior wall? I have a 12ga. ext. cord that I use for a air compressor, saws, shop lights (and other shop tools) that never even gets warm. I also have a cheap 14ga (I think) ext. cord that I use for my lawn edger and leaf blower that doesn't get hot or even warm. Wouldn't these pull more current than a TV.? My 50" plasma came with a cord that was about 6' long and I have it running thru the wall (about 4' is in the wall). It has been that way for about 5 years. Should I redo it so it isn't running in the wall? I didn't realize the TV’s power cord was not rated to run in-wall. Anyway, if I need to redo this could I just not make an extension cord out of some 12ga romex that I have laying around. That would probably cost about $4 instead of $150.

It's not only dangerous but it doesn't meet any electrical code. Use Romex and you'll be fine, even if it's installed where an electrician is required for live circuits, as long as one end requires an extension cord to connect it to some power source. Without the extension cord, the circuit is dead.

The extension cord can't be used inside of walls, over a concealed ceiling or below ground.

This also has some filtering (no, I don't want the flame throwing BS to start again).

 

[highfigh]

Nope. Gotta use 12/2 power cable in-wall. It's not going to be code no matter how much you want to break the rules... lol.

14/2 would be fine if it's a 15A circuit.

 

[Omega Supreme]

It has nothing to do with the ampacity of the wire. A receptacle can be overloaded just as easily as a power cord.
It has to do with flame spread. Romex and / or in-wall rated wire won't support combustion, once the ignition source is removed.

What does that mean?

Power cords are considered temporary by the NEC (National Electrical Code) and are not rated for in-wall use.

An extension cord does not have more insulation than Romex wire. It's also the 'type' of insulation that counts.
I beg to differ hear. I have a heavy duty 12ga extension cord that is probably 5 times as thick as 12/2 romex. Also I'm not talking about an extension cord but the power cord that came with the TV.

This just doesn't make sense. So there is no power cord that exists today or could ever exist that would be safe to run in-wall? I would think that the NEC has spec's/standards that in-wall wire has to meet and if it meets those specs then it is safe to run in-wall. And how do I know that the power cord does or does not meet those spec's. All of this may be answered if Rickster answers my first question.

 

[Rickster71]

This just doesn't make sense. So there is no power cord that exists today or could ever exist that would be safe to run in-wall? I would think that the NEC has spec's/standards that in-wall wire has to meet and if it meets those specs then it is safe to run in-wall. And how do I know that the power cord does or does not meet those spec's. All of this may be answered if Rickster answers my first question.

Even though this is getting a little weird; I'll take a stab at it.

NEC 400.8 (Uses not permitted)
(1) as a substitute for fixed wiring of a structure. (2) Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings or floors...... you get the idea.

The code views extension cords as temporary. So much in fact; that holiday lighting cords can be in place for no longer than 90 days. I'm not saying the Xmas light police will show up at your house on the 92nd day, but that's how the code reads.

This just doesn't make sense. So there is no power cord that exists today or could ever exist that would be safe to run in-wall?

Power cord manufacturers know the part of the code that pertains to them; knowing how cords are ruled on, they wouldn't re-invent the wheel. Since in-wall use is already covered by other types of wire.

I agree the code has some quirky parts.- i.e. Federal installations are exempt from the NEC.
Back when I took my code classes, it was on an Air Force base. Since my instructor worked on the base for 30 years; he would walk us around and see if we could find all the code violations. The biggest, was seeing million $ CNC machines powered with S.O. cord. Hope this helps.

Rick

 

[Omega Supreme]

Thanks for answering my questions Rick. I’m still confused thought.

I guess here are my ultimate questions: Why is it unsafe to run the "TV's fixed power cord" (not an extension cord) inside a wall? Will it burst into flame? Does putting it behind a 1/2 piece of sheetrock make it more flammable? If so then would it be more dangerous to take the 6' power cord and roll it into a 6" loop and plugging it into an outlet. It seems like a cord rolled up onto itself would be more dangerous.

Also is this really dangerous. I’m not asking is it against NEC code but if it is really and truly a fire hazard (if so why, please don’t say because it’s not compliant to NEC code because I really want to understand "why" it’s a hazard). Take for example: My dad works for Caterpillar as a welder. He had a 4' fiberglass step ladder. One day one of the legs was mashed and it had about a 2" crack. Well according to OSHA he had to throw that ladder away. So he had to get another ladder for work. Well he brought that step ladder home and he made a steel brace for it and bolted it to the cracked leg. It still does not meet OSHA's code but in reality it is just as safe as it was when he bought it. Once again thanks for any comments. I'm really not trying to be hard headed I just want to understand what the hazard is

 

[JohnA]

The main issue for not running power cords or ext cords behind a wall is the outer insulating jacket in relation to its fire rating. This rating determines how long a jacket will continue to burn once the heat/flame source is removed. It also covers how much toxic fumes are allowed to be released from the burning jacket. For in wall rated cables the jacket will self-extinguish itself after "X" amount of time. The point is to reduce the spread of fire within a building. Standard power cords and ext cords do not meet these standards and are therefore against code to run them in wall.

 

[Rickster71]

It sounds like you want to / or you already have, run your TV appliance cord through the wall; and are now trying to rationalize it.

Is any answer I can give you really going to matter at this point?

With that in mind, it seems like you aren't completely reading and / or understanding the answers I've already given you.

Appliance cord insulation is rated for 'free air' use. That type of insulation has a chance of over heating if used in a enclosed space.
(like a wall cavity)
This slow deterioration and drying out and cracking, will not be seen inside the wall; until it causes a fire.
From my post #8 It has to do with flame spread. Romex and / or in-wall rated wire won't support combustion, once the ignition source is removed.
Wire insulation is much more complicated than 'just' the thickness of the insulation. Too much to type here.

NEC 400.8 (Uses NOT permitted)
(1) as a substitute for fixed wiring of a structure. The word "Structure" means house or building. NOT your TV.

 

[Omega Supreme]

Thanks JohnA. Now THAT makes sense. I guess that is what Rick was trying to say in post 8.

Rick, If you read my 1st post I stated that was how I had my TV connect for about 5 years now. And no I am not trying to rationalize it, im just trying to understand what the hazard was. Looks like I will be making a trip to HD today