Kimber Kable 4PR & 8PR Speaker Cable Review

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admin

Audioholics Robot
Staff member
Overall I am a big fan of the Kimber 8PR speaker cables and I plan on utilizing my review samples in my reference system quite heavily not just because they perform well but because the package as a whole is of excellent quality and design. I fell in love with their banana terminations and wish that their competition would go back to the drawing board and make more cost effective cloned solutions. If you are on the market for high end exotic cables and your goal is transparency over glorified tone controls, then I highly recommend the Kimber 8PR speaker cables. It’s refreshing to find an exotic cable vendor that discloses all performance metrics of their products, doesn’t wrap them in snake oil and delivers a reference level performing product that scores high in pride of ownership. Highly recommended!




Discuss "Kimber Kable 4PR & 8PR Speaker Cable Review" here. Read the article.
 
S

Smackrabbit

Enthusiast
WBT posts

To me, the focus on the WBT binding posts doesn't seem to be a big deal to recommend the cables. WBT posts are available easily from a lot of retailers, and you can easily terminate your own cables and install them yourself. Since, aside from the quality of the WBT connectors, the Kimber 8PR didn't seem to offer much, if any, benefit over the 5T00UP cable from Blue Jeans, it seems the best value proposition for someone would be to buy their cable from Blue Jeans, buy the WBT connectors from someone else (WBT also sells crimping sleeves and tools to install the connectors yourself more easily), and make your own high quality cables. Since so many other companies sell their cables with WBT connectors as well, to focus more on the Kimber specific aspects of the cable would be more useful to me.
 
W

westcott

Audioholic General
I bet if you asked real nice, Kurt would even terminate the WBT connectors for you. May cost you a little extra, but I am sure it would be more cost effective than paying the Kimber retail price for same.

Heres the link for more info on termination pricing and current connector offerings.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm

The only real factor for good sound quality from a speaker cable is low resistance and high conductivity. 10 gauge 5T00UP cable should provide all the attributes necessary.
 
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foeth

Enthusiast
By placing a review on speaker cables including listening tests for products which are obviously a form of a commercial (can you try not to type Axiom in a review?), the credibility of Audioholics and the author is degrading and the reliability of all your articles suffer as a result. I find it somehow disturbing that it is refreshing that no snake-oil statements are made by the vendor. Is that the new norm? Wow, we weren't even scammed?
 
Haoleb

Haoleb

Audioholic Field Marshall
By placing a review on speaker cables including listening tests for products which are obviously a form of a commercial (can you try not to type Axiom in a review?), the credibility of Audioholics and the author is degrading and the reliability of all your articles suffer as a result. I find it somehow disturbing that it is refreshing that no snake-oil statements are made by the vendor. Is that the new norm? Wow, we weren't even scammed?

I know, lets all petition that someone else offering a free "service" not ever review anything besides old extension cords hacked up for speaker cables and never mention the amp they happen to be using because we're so damn tired of all the subliminal evil messages anything other than that would include. :rolleyes:
 

foeth

Enthusiast
Well, you're either objective, or you're not. Mentioning the amp you're using (and your sponsor) is fine by me (I suppose readers of this site generally realize this). Audioholics can go any direction they please because it's their site and all that. However, would be a shame considering it's one of the few sites without the nonsense seen on so many other sites. If that's just my problem, well, I guess it is :D
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
By placing a review on speaker cables including listening tests for products which are obviously a form of a commercial (can you try not to type Axiom in a review?), the credibility of Audioholics and the author is degrading and the reliability of all your articles suffer as a result. I find it somehow disturbing that it is refreshing that no snake-oil statements are made by the vendor. Is that the new norm? Wow, we weren't even scammed?
2 posts and this is your input:confused: Im not really one for speaker cable reviews, but if esthics and termination are important to some, who am I to complain. Contribute something to the thread or move along and dont read:D:p;)
 

foeth

Enthusiast
Actually, it was my first post. I've been reading the site for years but felt the need to push the reply button. Doesn't matter, the argument on the number of posts adds or detracts nothing to the argument and a critical view is not at all at conflict with a contribution.

There is now a review on this site from a company that says on its website

"The notion of power cables offering improved system performance has become a hotly debated topic. The interaction between a power cable and a component has often been misunderstood or dismissed. Research and experience have shown us that this interaction should not be underestimated. A power cord has direct correlation to the musical signal."

(The second sentence is true, however. The interaction is misunderstood or, when understood, dismissed).

About Audioholics: "This site is a direct result of what happened when a group of Engineers got frustrated with marketing gimmicks in the Audio Industry and took it upon themselves to pursue the truth and educate the masses."
 
CraigV

CraigV

Audioholic General
I have been using Kimber Kable products for years in my system. Yes, there is a difference, even if not all people can perceive it. I only wish I could afford the 8TC wire to bi-wire my speakers.

Heresy? Placebo effect? No, I am one of many who readily notice a real world difference in all components, and frankly I grow tired of the bashing to be endured by saying so. Several members have extolled the virtues of buying high-end gear in posts without reprisal, which in all fairness is how it should be for everyone.

If you believe there is no difference, that is accepted. Why should believing the opposite be maligned?
Disagree & debate, yes. Telling people they’re wrong, crazy or buying into hype, no.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
I've no problem at all with reviewing products of all price brackets. I've also no problem at all with scoring the performance highly if, in fact, the performance is good! It seems totally believable to me that these Kimber speaker cables perform very well. The measurements back up the performance claims.

But to score them 3 out of 5 for value is misleading IMO. Such a score can be interpreted in one of two ways:

1) We compare these Kimber cables to other cables costing the same price. If that is the comparison, then they ought to score higher in value because these cables actually do no damage to the signal and the connectors are of high quality. Many other esoteric, over-priced cables act as a passive EQ and alter the signal and/or use ineffective connectors. If we're comparing these over-priced cables to other over-priced cables, then these ones are a higher value because they actually perform well.

2) On the other hand, if we are comparing these Kimber cables to ALL speaker cables that are out there, then they are a TERRIBLE value. Do they measure well? Yes. Sure. But so does the bulk speaker wire from Bluejeanscable. There is no magic here. Nice, thick copper speaker wire will measure well and transmit the audio signal as close to perfectly as possible. Outside of aesthetics and the connectors, the only other reason for the high price is pure mark-up.

But a 3 out of 5 score for value basically says that these Kimber cables are about average, which is totally out of whack.

If the performance is good, then the performance is good. Simple as that. But the price here is ridiculous. So either you are paying way more money because you are misled to believe that these Kimber cables perform better than much much less expensive wires, or you are determined to spend a lot of money regardless, in which case - at least these do no harm and perform the way a speaker wire ought to.

Do I hate Kimber? No. Because at least they are selling a high performance product. But I DO question how any sane and educated person can actually recommend them. The ONLY reasonable recommendation starts with, "if you are determined to spend a ridiculous and needlessly large amount of money on speaker cables, then..."

The responsible thing to say would be, "these Kimber cables perform well, but under no circumstances should you ever think it necessary to spend this much for equally good performance."

I'm starting to seriously wonder about Gene...
 
CraigV

CraigV

Audioholic General
A well educated person should be able to make their own decision on how to spend their money. If they perceive a particular item as a good value and have the means to buy it, then so be it.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
I have been using Kimber Kable products for years in my system. Yes, there is a difference, even if not all people can perceive it. I only wish I could afford the 8TC wire to bi-wire my speakers.

Heresy? Placebo effect? No, I am one of many who readily notice a real world difference in all components, and frankly I grow tired of the bashing to be endured by saying so. Several members have extolled the virtues of buying high-end gear in posts without reprisal, which in all fairness is how it should be for everyone.

If you believe there is no difference, that is accepted. Why should believing the opposite be maligned?
Disagree & debate, yes. Telling people they’re wrong, crazy or buying into hype, no.
If you welcome debate, CraigV, I hope you will interpret my comments as they are meant: with respect and a genuine interest in discussion.

The largest problem for me is that human perception is incredibly inaccurate. We can literally hear an identical sound 5 times in a row and yet swear up and down that the sound changed each time. Every scientific measurement can confirm that the sound was identical every time, and yet, there is no lie being told when we swear that we thought the sound was different each time.

The disconnect and the misinformation (IMO) is when people attribute a perceived difference to a new piece of gear. Did the new piece of gear really make a change? Or did we just perceive a change when really there was none? Or did our knowledge that there was a change of gear convince us that there was a change in performance?

I've conducted my own extensive listening tests - purely for my own curiosity. I've always kept myself sightless - relying on a partner to make any changes - and always included samples where no change was actually made - just to see if I would give a "false positive" and identify a change when, in fact, there was none.

My most accomplished test was that I correctly put in order, with 100% accuracy, a single song at various mp3 bitrates ranging from 96 kbps to 320 kbps as well as the PCM uncompressed original. None of the gear was changed, only the bitrate and I was very surprised that I was able to correctly put them in perfect order from the lowest bitrate to the highest. I wasn't expecting to be able to identify them and perhaps it was pure luck. But I simply went along and said to myself, "this one is better than the last one, not as good as the one before it..." etc. and so on and wound up with the correct order!

When I tried a test with various amplifiers, my perception led to nothing of value. I had several "false positives" - where I perceived a change when, in fact, the same amplifier was playing both times! I did correctly identify a cheap Kenwood receiver every time that it was used. But other than that one unit, I could not reliably tell a difference from one receiver or amp to another.

With speaker cables, I could tell no difference at all. Did I perceive differences? Yes. But there was no correlation at all between when I perceived a difference and when any sort of change had been made. It was completely random.

Here's the thing - if you just sit down and listen to a single song over and over and over. Make no changes to any gear at all. Just listen repeatedly to one piece of music. You will hear differences each time! It has everything to do with focus. If I specifically concentrate on the high notes, then I'm going to pick out details that I did not notice when I was specifically listening for low notes.

Bottom line - human perception is more easily swayed and changed than the actual sound itself. If I tell you to listen for more clarity in the high notes, you're going to notice more clarity - even if there isn't any!

In other words, if you believe there is going to be a change, then you will perceive a change because you are specifically focusing and listening for a change. No change in the sound actually occurred, but your focus changed and that focus changed your perception.

To attribute the change in perception to the cables is a mistake. We all look for cause and effect. If you perceived a change and you are aware that the cables changed, then you automatically attribute the change in perception to the change in cables. It's intuitive. It's natural. But it isn't correct. Correlation does not equal causation.

For years and years, people have been attributing perceived differences to things that actually made no difference. If I placed an inert rock on top of your amplifier and then you could have sworn that you heard something different, your intuition may lead you to believe that the inert rock actually caused a difference!

But that is where science and measurement comes in. In a nut shell, our senses suck :p They are amazing, but compared to modern test equipment, our senses may as well be giant, dull, blunt mallets.

You swear that you heard a difference. But the test equipment says otherwise. You weren't lying. But you were mistaken. The difference you heard was in your brain; not in the actual sound. Whether it was because you were expecting to hear a difference and therefore, convinced yourself that you did; or whether it's because of the simple fact that each time we listen, we hear something different because of the way in which we focus and mentally block out certain sounds so that we may notice others; or whether it's because human hearing simply isn't that accurate and can be very easily fooled with auditory illusion - the fact remains that if we want the TRUTH, we have to rely on something other than human perception.
 

foeth

Enthusiast
Indeed. If you want to write an objective review, you should try to minimize your own experience and thereby elimate any personal feeling. Facts do not change when we feel differently about them. This does not mean that Gene cannot be enthousiastic about the banana plugs, which probably are very good (I assume) and part of the review is about reading the experience of the reviewer. I also note that Gene never says the cables actually sound better than other cables. In fact, he starts his second page by explaining that they shouldn't and that a listening test shouldn't be required (and than does so anyway, thoroughly undermining the credibility of the review). If he writes that the cables have "highest quality to value ratio " I can only conclude they are the cheapest. This is all fine, but the article tries to sell off Kimber as an honest cable seller.

However, the smallest ammount of "research" (clicking the Kimber link) shows that Kimber is nothing but a snake-oil cable vendor. At least, "Solid core, Hyper-pure, molecularly optimized Black Pearl silver" doesn't really sound scientific to me, neither does a power cable's "transparency, detail, articulate bass, dynamic contrasts, musical ease, flow, and freedom from grain" or a fibre-optic cable "with such excellent light transfer characteristics, the result is a sound with is full, relaxed, and transparent. " It would be a major scientific breakthrough indeed if a digital connection knows to change the 0s and 1s in a digital data stream such that it improves sound quality. If you think you can hear that, you are either mistaken or lying (or both).
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Well, you're either objective, or you're not. Mentioning the amp you're using (and your sponsor) is fine by me (I suppose readers of this site generally realize this). Audioholics can go any direction they please because it's their site and all that. However, would be a shame considering it's one of the few sites without the nonsense seen on so many other sites. If that's just my problem, well, I guess it is :D
You think that is an ad? Try this series of 'posts' at Polk Audio:

Part 3 Part6

There are two others.. But you get the gist of it.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
If Gene had conducted some double-blind testing of these Kimber Kables cables, compared with BJC cables and some other no-name cables, I might be able to accept the review as credible. As Gene himself has stated, the world of speaker cable is full of snake oil. And, members of Audioholics forums, as a group, tend to be a sceptical lot. So, if he wants to convince many of us (well, me at least) that Kimber Kables are worth one red cent more than BJC, the testing will have to be more scientic. Sure, he conducted a pile of measurements on the cables, but he didn't or couldn't tell me that any differences were audible. I'm all about bang-for-the-buck and if there is no audible improvement in SQ, than the cables aren't worth a penny more. If I had Bill Gates' money and could afford the best of the best, I still wouldn't buy anything that did not perform better than a cheaper version.

Maybe his review was aimed at the "bragging rights" crowd - people who like to go to extremes to impress others. So, if he can tell these people that they can safely waste, er, I mean spend more money without degrading their SQ, then no harm done! Personally, I could care less how a cable looks - I'd rather not see them at all!
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I have been using Kimber Kable products for years in my system. Yes, there is a difference, even if not all people can perceive it. I only wish I could afford the 8TC wire to bi-wire my speakers.

Heresy? Placebo effect? No, I am one of many who readily notice a real world difference in all components, and frankly I grow tired of the bashing to be endured by saying so. Several members have extolled the virtues of buying high-end gear in posts without reprisal, which in all fairness is how it should be for everyone.

If you believe there is no difference, that is accepted. Why should believing the opposite be maligned?
Disagree & debate, yes. Telling people they’re wrong, crazy or buying into hype, no.
I don't think anyone will ding you for buying a quality set of interconnects. I don't even think people will ding you if your hear a 'difference'.

I think what most people want to see is a quantifiable measurement of differences that can be heard. I think the second thing that people want to see is a manufacturer like Audioquest or Kimber Cable put their money where their mouth is and let you try out their cable and not be on the hook if it doesn't make a difference for you. As a manufacturer you either believe in your product or you don't.
 
zhimbo

zhimbo

Audioholic General
Good lord - didn't anyone actually read the damn review?

Quotes from the review:

I was curious to see if they would at least measure up to standard 12AWG zip cord which is a criteria I have found many exotic cable vendors simply can’t live up to.
I am not one who attempts to discern the subtle sonic differences cables convey on an audio system. I am a firm believer that only poorly designed cables can under the right conditions be sonically distinguishable.
At no point did I feel the Kimber cables were adding a level of realism I’ve never heard before with my standard 10AWG Blue Jeans zip cord. Never did I feel the midrange got more chocolatey or a magic veil was lifted. My wife never claimed she could hear the difference all the way from the kitchen while she was cooking up some chicken Marsala.
some even take it to the extreme thinking they will improve the transmission of the signal from their amplifiers to their loudspeakers. Of course there is a psychological term for this type of thinking, but since I am not a physician of medicine, I will leave that prognosis to a qualified MD.
People seem to be debating a completely different article than the one I read.
 
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W

westcott

Audioholic General
I am sure Gene lost some sleep over this one. But, sponsors are sponsors and they do deserve a review. Pitting one sponsor against another sponsor, although a good idea, is not in the best interest of Audioholics. It is a lose lose proposition and not a position I would want to be placed in.

I am willing to give Gene the benefit of the doubt. We all know where he stands on snake oil products. I think most regular readers here realize what makes a quality cable and one that is reasonably priced.

Some people will buy into Kimber's marketing, and for those people, spend your heart out. They are attractive looking.

The rest of us will use common sense and buy what works just as well and provides a good value.

P.S. I guess the only real question left is, "Should Audioholics have taken on a sponsor that they do not believe to be in the best interest of their readers in the first place?"
 
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GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Yes, we read the damn review! But, the question still goes begging - why did he bother to do it at all, if there is no real benefit in buying these cables?
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
I am sure Gene lost some sleep over this one. But, sponsors are sponsors and they do deserve a review. Pitting one sponsor against another sponsor, although a good idea, is not in the best interest of Audioholics. It is a lose lose proposition and not a position I would want to be placed in.

I am willing to give Gene the benefit of the doubt. We all know where he stands on snake oil products. I think most regular readers here realize what makes a quality cable and one that is reasonably priced.

Some people will buy into Kimber's marketing, and for those people, spend your heart out. They are attractive looking.

The rest of us will use common sense and buy what works just as well and provides a good value.
Very well put.
 
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