RBH Sound Signature T-30LSE System Review

[gene]

RBH Sound T-30LSE Signature Speaker Review

<P><SPAN class=style51><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT face=Arial><A href="http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/RBHSignatureT30LSEp1.php"><IMG style="WIDTH: 45px; HEIGHT: 125px" alt=[t30] hspace=10 src="http://www.audioholics.com/news/thumbs/t30_th.jpg" align=left border=0></A>The RBH Sound T-30LSE system is a speaker system cut from a different cloth.&nbsp; It provides that "better than being there" sonic experience typically only found in unamplified live musical performance.&nbsp; It was born to reproduce music with unparalleled realism, free of dynamic range or bandwidth limitations.&nbsp; This system can go toe-to-toe sonically with some of the most expensive gear made and comfortably hold its own.&nbsp; </FONT></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">RBH Sound is only producing 100 pairs (many of which have already been pre-sold) of these limited edition speakers.&nbsp; You better get your dose of overindulgence before they are going going … gone.<STRONG><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></STRONG></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">[Read the Review]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [Measurements]&nbsp;</SPAN></SPAN></P>

 

[briansmith]

Do you think that a pair of these speaker would be adequate w/out a subwoofer? For reference I have a PB2 Ultra by SVS in a 20 X 35 room.

How much is the matching center channel and rears and when will they be available?

Any chance of picking these bad boys up at anything besides retail?

-Brian

 

[Seth=L]

Do you think that a pair of these speaker would be adequate w/out a subwoofer? For reference I have a PB2 Ultra by SVS in a 20 X 35 room.

How much is the matching center channel and rears and when will they be available?

Any chance of picking these bad boys up at anything besides retail?

-Brian

I get the impression these speakers were designed to be used in a stereo only configuration, not meaning they wouldn't work well in part of a surround system. There may not be matching center and surrounds for it. If they are only making 100 pair, well I just don't see it.

And being that they are music speakers and they are quite large, a sub wouldn't be a necessity. Music doesn't usually dig as low in hertz as does movie soundtracks.

 

[briansmith]

I get the impression these speakers were designed to be used in a stereo only configuration, not meaning they wouldn't work well in part of a surround system. There may not be matching center and surrounds for it. If they are only making 100 pair, well I just don't see it.

And being that they are music speakers and they are quite large, a sub wouldn't be a necessity. Music doesn't usually dig as low in hertz as does movie soundtracks.

Actually I just read the review and there is a matching center and surrounds thought I don't know if they are upgraded speakers or from the old line. From the review it sounds like the subwoofers did at some point "bottom" out. I can't believe they did not include some kind of limiter or filter on the woofers.

 

[Seth=L]

Ha, I was wrong, definitely not a first for me.

 

[robot]

Beware, many loudspeaker manufacturers use a quasi phase plug which looks like a phase plug for marketing purposes but does not physically separate from the cone of the driver. These "so called" phase plugs can do more harm than good as they provide an inconsistent surface area. They increase the mass of the cone, yielding poorer frequency response and linearity.

I don't think this is a fair thing to say. I've seen lots of cheap speakers with fixed phase plugs, and more expensive quality speakers with the "pointy dust cap" variety phase plug. The B&W 6 series speakers use the "pointy dust cap" phase plugs and I think those mid bass drivers are absolutely amazing in their price range. Every day I listen to my speakers and notice how amazing, clear, and detailed the midrange is.

On the other hand I've listened to the less expensive Energy towers with true phase plugs and I wasn't too interested. The Energys have a similar cone design to the B&W as well.

I really don't think that B&W used a pointy dust cap in the 6 series because it just looks better. If it sounded better, then they would have used a conventional dome.

Also I don't know if anyone cares but the correct way to punctuate the second sentence would be: "These so-called "phase plugs"...." instead of "These "so called" phase plugs".

 

[gene]

From the review it sounds like the subwoofers did at some point "bottom" out. I can't believe they did not include some kind of limiter or filter on the woofers.

NO the woofers did NOT bottom out! Please re-read the section of the review. The pre-production samples I received had the leads of the driver pushed towards the cone and they slapped against the cone as the driver was making long excursions. I resolved this issue by bending the leads out which is what RBH does on production units prior to installing them. I never got these woofers to bottom out with the amps I was using.

Actually I just read the review and there is a matching center and surrounds thought I don't know if they are upgraded speakers or from the old line.

The center is matching (meaning the same drivers, topology, xover, etc). The 66-SE's are current product and work very well with this system.

 

[gene]

Do you think that a pair of these speaker would be adequate w/out a subwoofer? For reference I have a PB2 Ultra by SVS in a 20 X 35 room.

The T-30LSE system is very adequate for bass. The only reason I used two additional subs was because of the asymmetry of my room. I wanted to broaden a more uniform bass response across all of my seats in my theater.

 

[jaxvon]

I have a question about the speakers...

The build quality doesn't seem that high to me. What exactly is in there besides the HDF and acoustical foam? Any extra wall damping or tension bracing?

 

[Buckle-meister]

Depending on the SPL level you need to attain in your room, powering these speakers full range demands an amplifier rated to deliver at least 200 Watts per channel into 4-Ohms. Of course, very high SPL’s in large rooms will require even more power and the T-30LSE can safely be used with amplifiers capable of delivering up to 1000 Watts per channel.

I've always been under the impression that apart from running the risk of destroying speakers by cranking up the volume too high on an amplifier of power greater than that recommended by the speaker manufacturer, that there was nothing wrong with using any size of amplifier.

Is this not true? The last sentence of the above quote seems to suggest that it may not be.

 

[westcott]

I am glad to see that you did talk about phase and time alignment issues with speaker designs like this. I commend you for trying to cover the pros and cons of every speaker design.

My only other concern with this review was that the minimum room size recommendation for speakers and drivers of this size is a little generous. I would have suggested a room minimum of 15' X 20'.

Lastly, I think 1' or 2' feet is way too close to the side walls for a direct radiating speaker design, especially one with this many drivers so far out of axis alignment with one another and with the center channel. I do like that they are 4' from the rear wall, and seems like a good compromise for how most people use a room.

 

[Jim E.]

Do you think that a pair of these speaker would be adequate w/out a subwoofer? For reference I have a PB2 Ultra by SVS in a 20 X 35 room.

How much is the matching center channel and rears and when will they be available?

Any chance of picking these bad boys up at anything besides retail?

-Brian

Brian:

The bass portion of these speakers is simply stunning! Keep in mind that they are essentially highly updated lower portion of the T2 with MUCH more volume. This makes them a dual sub setup.

For example, when I was watching War of the Worlds scene where the machines were rising from the ground I was amazed at the depth of the bass and the clarity of shattering glass. You would swear that there were butt kickers in your seats and trust me I know I don't have them.

Another example is The Incredibles scene where Mr. Incredible first encounters the big metal multi-arm machine. There is some sort of explosion in that scene that literally made the ruffles in my carpet jump up about 4 inches into the air. That's how much air these speakers move!

There are two matching center channels: 1) T-1SE/R and 2) 6100-SE/R.

There are also matching surrounds with the reference speakers available.

Cheers!

 

[gene]

guys;

thanks for all the feedback. I think I rushed this review to go live before CES and decided to clarify my text on the issue of applying a limiter on a sub. IMO this should be done on a stand alone subwoofer product, but not necessarily on a full range speaker system.

Here is my rewrite of that paragraph:

In my huge room I initially was able to induce mechanical noise out of the subs at extreme output levels. At first listen, I thought I was bottoming the drivers but later discovered the leads on the woofers were slapping against the cone. I pushed the leads out on the problematic woofers and this virtually eliminated this phenomenon - reducing it to a slight buzz when I stuck my head next to the woofers while playing at insanely loud SPL levels (not recommended for health reasons). RBH informed me this is something they normally do with the bass drivers of every production unit before installing them into the cabinet.

The bass portion of the T-30LSE system is so phenomenal, that I’d hope for RBH to one day offer stand alone subwoofer version of this design. Mechanical noise at high output levels, especially with long throw drivers, is quite common with products that don’t employ any self limiting within the mating amplifier or electronics. Perhaps if RBH Sound introduces such a product (ie. 1010-SE/R) based on this design, they can integrate an amplifier best suited for the drivers that will work within their mechanical design constraints along with offering active equalization for the low frequency optimization. Many manufacturers are doing this in their subwoofer products and I believe it would be a huge value with a small price premium for customers wanting the ultimate “tweakability” from the product. I suspect the ultimate setup of a T-30LSE system in a large room like mine would be the compliment of two additional subwoofers matching the performance of these speakers. The fact that I can’t say that about too many full range loudspeakers, speaks volumes about the bass quality of these.

 

[Dekpm19]

So if you got 3 x T-1SE/R for your front speakers would you get the same sound as you had with the T-30LSE for the 80hz and above. Do they have the same drivers and crossovers, are is their a little bit of a difference in their sound and setup between the two.
Allen

PS when will the RBH video from ces be up. I have enjoyed looking at all of them so far.
Thanks

 

[gene]

So if you got 3 x T-1SE/R for your front speakers would you get the same sound as you had with the T-30LSE for the 80hz and above. Do they have the same drivers and crossovers, are is their a little bit of a difference in their sound and setup between the two.
Allen

PS when will the RBH video from ces be up. I have enjoyed looking at all of them so far.
Thanks

Yes the T-1SE/R is the identical speaker to the T-30LSE without the sub drivers. The only difference is the T-1SE/R has higher sensitivity since it isn't padded down for the sub drivers. As for bass above 80Hz, the T-30LSE system run full range would still had more output compared to a T1-SE/R since the T-30's bass sections have no xover.

The videos will be posted shortly. thanks.

 

[Dekpm19]

the T-30LSE system run full range would still had more output compared to a T1-SE/R since the T-30's bass sections have no xover.

So they just let the bass roll off naturally.
I was wandering why you use the crossover in your processor on the subs.
Allen

 

[gene]

I used the xover in my processor because I ran the RBH and Velodyne subs all in mono to get the best bass integration across the entire listening area.

Had I set this system up for 2 channel only, I wouldn't have used any bass management at all.

 

[Dekpm19]

I used the xover in my processor because I ran the RBH and Velodyne subs all in mono to get the best bass integration across the entire listening area.

Had I set this system up for 2 channel only, I wouldn't have used any bass management at all.

Thanks Gene

I like the video shots yall did for the Live at CES.

Thanks again for all the work
Allen

 

[jaxvon]

I have a question about the speakers...

The build quality doesn't seem that high to me. What exactly is in there besides the HDF and acoustical foam? Any extra wall damping or tension bracing?

Gene, please reply to my post, quoted above. Thanks.

 

[gene]

The build quality doesn't seem that high to me. What exactly is in there besides the HDF and acoustical foam? Any extra wall damping or tension bracing?

What else do you want? The speakers are constructed of 3/4" HDF instead of MDF. They are well braced and well lined with damping materials in the right places. They use some of the highest quality drivers on the market, hence why they received a very good rating in build quality.

Their appearance isn't as elegant as some of the more gourmet speakers, hence why I gave them a good rating on appearance.

These speakers have it where it counts - Performance! Few if any can match them at this price point and even beyond IMO, hence why I gave them an Excellent rating for performance.