Hsu Research CCB-8 Bookshelf Speaker Preview

gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
It has been awhile since Hsu Research has released a new speaker, so their announcement of the new CCB-8 bookshelf speaker at the 2016 RMAF audio show came as a welcome surprise. The CCB-8 is a coaxial speaker design that uses the pole piece and cone shape of its 8" woofer as a constant directivity horn for its high-sensitivity tweeter. This design promises to rectify many of the problems inherent in conventional loudspeakers, especially concerning the center speaker.

Read our preview to see if the Hsu CCB-8 is the cure for your loudspeaker ailments.



Read: Hsu Research CCB-8 Bookshelf Speaker Preview
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
What an interesting speaker design! Can't wait to see some measurements.

Has anyone done this type of coax configuration before? Was it done well?

I have never seen anything like this, so to me it seems to be quite innovative!
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
Yeah...never seen that before. At least not until I walked over to my KEF speakers with my eyeglasses ON and the grills OFF. :)
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Yeah...never seen that before. At least not until I walked over to my KEF speakers with my eyeglasses ON and the grills OFF. :)
Is the tweeter actually behind the woofer on the KEF?

I don't have much experience with coax designs, mostly I have seen them on car speakers.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
@KenM10759
and then I looked up the price of your's KEF R100 (trying to do apples to apples here) and these are retailing at $1200/pr - over time a half more than CCB, can't quite match CCB's FR: 50 - 20 kHz +/- 2 dB, nor they 94db sensitivity (half space)
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
@KenM10759
and then I looked up the price of your's KEF R100 (trying to do apples to apples here) and these are retailing at $1200/pr - over time a half more than CCB, can't quite match CCB's FR: 50 - 20 kHz +/- 2 dB, nor they 94db sensitivity (half space)
And who has done a head-to-head comparison of the R100 to these new ones or even the Elac Uni-Fi product?

For the record, I wouldn't have paid $1200 for mine either. I got them a little over a year ago during KEF's "12 days of Christmas Sale" for $800 a pair, at my door. Sensitivity means little to nothing to me, as power is relatively cheap and I don't need it at my typical listening levels. When I first collected the R500/R200c/R100 set I cranked it up because I'd never had that capability of distortion free levels that had my wife beating me about the head. I've since tapered off to moderate levels, rarely approaching reference.
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
Is the tweeter actually behind the woofer on the KEF?

I don't have much experience with coax designs, mostly I have seen them on car speakers.
No, the tweeter is where the dust cap of the woofer would normally be and the woofer has a large ring type pole piece instead of the normal solid one. This is nothing new. Kef has been refining their version of the coaxial/co-linear two-way speaker since their first in the 1980's. Theirs was far from the first, it's just that they stuck with it and have really poured a lot of money into make it work particularly well.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
No, the tweeter is where the dust cap of the woofer would normally be and the woofer has a large ring type pole piece instead of the normal solid one. This is nothing new. Kef has been refining their version of the coaxial/co-linear two-way speaker since their first in the 1980's. Theirs was far from the first, it's just that they stuck with it and have really poured a lot of money into make it work particularly well.
OK, that's what I was getting at--I don't know how often the tweeter has been mounted behind the woofer on the coax designs.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
And who has done a head-to-head comparison of the R100 to these new ones or even the Elac Uni-Fi product?
I'm not talking about subjective comparison, but objective measurements. I do trust in HSU's provided numbers as they have great track record.

For the record, I wouldn't have paid $1200 for mine either. I got them a little over a year ago during KEF's "12 days of Christmas Sale" for $800 a pair, at my door.
Irrelevant, We are comparing two MSRP prices here. HSU will likely and eventually put CCB on sale as well.

Sensitivity means little to nothing to me, as power is relatively cheap and I don't need it at my typical listening levels. When I first collected the R500/R200c/R100 set I cranked it up because I'd never had that capability of distortion free levels that had my wife beating me about the head. I've since tapered off to moderate levels, rarely approaching reference.
Again, not relevant. Yes, power is cheap, but now question comes - could you power your R100 from a tiny T-Amp vs powering CCB from same tiny t-amp - I can't count how many times people liked that idea, despite you could get much more powerful 2nd hand avr for about same money.
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
Actually, KEF prefers to say their design is "coincident."
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
I'm not talking about subjective comparison, but objective measurements. I do trust in HSU's provided numbers as they have great track record.


Irrelevant, We are comparing two MSRP prices here. HSU will likely and eventually put CCB on sale as well.


Again, not relevant. Yes, power is cheap, but now question comes - could you power your R100 from a tiny T-Amp vs powering CCB from same tiny t-amp - I can't count how many times people liked that idea, despite you could get much more powerful 2nd hand avr for about same money.
Value is different for everyone. While the idea of using a MUCH larger (8") woofer as base for the coaxial design is novel in a bookshelf/standmount (KEf uses one in their largest Q900 floorstander), I can't find what size tweeter they use. Presumably the box is bigger than my R100's 7.1" w X 11" h x 11.4" d cabinets. It really should go deeper. Another part of value judgement is the looks. I'm OK with the dulled aluminum, not sure I'd love bright yellow. Others will actually prefer it.

I make no claim that the speakers I use as my surrounds are better than these new HSU speakers or even the Elac UB-5. I like them though. ;)
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Value is different for everyone. While the idea of using a MUCH larger (8") woofer as base for the coaxial design is novel in a bookshelf/standmount (KEf uses one in their largest Q900 floorstander), I can't find what size tweeter they use. Presumably the box is bigger than my R100's 7.1" w X 11" h x 11.4" d cabinets. It really should go deeper. Another part of value judgement is the looks. I'm OK with the dulled aluminum, not sure I'd love bright yellow. Others will actually prefer it.

I make no claim that the speakers I use as my surrounds are better than these new HSU speakers or even the Elac UB-5. I like them though. ;)
LOL!

Yeah, the first thing I thought when I saw those yellow drivers was "KRK Rockits".
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
What an interesting speaker design! Can't wait to see some measurements.

Has anyone done this type of coax configuration before? Was it done well?

I have never seen anything like this, so to me it seems to be quite innovative!
You mostly see this type of design in pro-audio where the pole piece and woofer are used as a wave-guide, like so. I believe Tannoy uses similar designs for their home audio speakers. It isn't new, but it can be tricky to pull off for a hi-fi speaker. Dr. Hsu and Don Keele is a hell of a team up though, so I have a good feeling about these.

The KEF concentric designs are quite different, but, of course, their design approach addresses many of the same problems.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
The subs that were unveiled at the 2016 RMAF were the VTF-1 mk3 and VTF-2 mk5.
Ah, I see. Well, these already been up on the main site for a while now. CCB8 speaker is now showing as well, but I guess I didn't looked for it since (as you've mentioned) last 7 years nothing changes in speakers section :)
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
You mostly see this type of design in pro-audio where the pole piece and woofer are used as a wave-guide, like so. I believe Tannoy uses similar designs for their home audio speakers. It isn't new, but it can be tricky to pull off for a hi-fi speaker. Dr. Hsu and Don Keele is a hell of a team up though, so I have a good feeling about these.

The KEF concentric designs are quite different, but, of course, their design approach addresses many of the same problems.
Thanks, that link definitely makes it much easier to visualize how the tweet is mounted.
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
These photos may make it even easier to understand how KEF does it, calling them coincident rather than simple coaxial. Two distinctly different speaker types living within the same body, so to speak.


 
TDLuser

TDLuser

Audiophyte
I like the design principle of this speaker. Of course there is nothing new with this concept, as someone has already mentioned. As with most developments (inventions) we see today, it has all been done before (sometimes hundreds of years ago)! The famous British company Tannoy brought out the Dual Concentric 12” & 15” drivers in the 1940’s use a similar principle. I used to own a couple of 12” Gold Concentric drivers when I was building my own speakers years ago. What is nice about this design is the shallow cone. The problem with the Tannoy was the fairly deep cone which could colour the sound. The effect you would get if you held your hands together in front of your mouth, as if you were trying to attract someone’s attention. Yes, these Hsu Research CCB-8 Bookshelf Speakers will definitely overcome the vertical phasing issues you find in most speakers and of course, the horizontal phasing problems on most centre speakers. Here we have a single point source like the highly regarded Quad ELS 63’s. Rodney.
 
A

A/Vbuff179

Audiophyte
This is by no means a professional review, as I have no measurements to list, but merely a testament to the engineering marvel that HSU Research has developed. If you live in Southern California and are interested in HSU Research products, I suggest visiting their office in Anaheim. Their modest, though exceptional customer service, not to mention an audition of their product, will further help with your purchasing decision. I had the extremely satisfying pleasure of experiencing the new CCB-8 (Constant directivity Coaxial Bookshelf) loudspeakers up close and personal at their office on 1/11/17. It was great because their 1400cu. ft. demo room replicates a family room setting in the typical home and not some makeshift demo room at a local electronics store or even with the bustling ambience of a trade show. I have been there before with the representative Kevin when I experienced a demo with the full home theater. In this case it was the room, the music, the CCB-8s, Dr. Hsu himself, and I. He already has a great product in the HB-1 mk2 and their terrific performance value. They transport the listener closer to the live performance on a great budget. Greatly superior to other bookshelf loudspeakers that one can purchase at a local big box store. The CCB-8 just takes this experience up a notch at a fraction of the cost of some of the other coaxial speakers out there.


Grant it the CCB-8 is a larger speaker than its little brother at 2.5” wider (at 10.5” vs 8”) and 4” deeper (at 12” vs 8”), but the HB-1 mk2 is 5/8” taller than the CCB-8. The CCB-8 has a larger stunning yellow 8” polypropylene mid-bass driver with an inverted treated fabric surround. The color of the woofer was personally chosen by Dr. Hsu in an homage to the Corel Beta loudspeaker. It has the same 1” tweeter driver as the HB-1 mk2, which is mounted inside the pole piece of the woofer behind an acoustically transparent dust cap. Unlike the rectangular horn of the HB-1, the circular horn of the CCB-8 begins inside the pole piece and extends as the mid-bass driver itself. Academy Award winning audio engineer Don Keele (Technical Achievement award for his contribution to Constant Directivity speaker systems in the cinema) assisted in the design of the pole piece and driver shape. The collaboration of Dr. Hsu and Don Keele has resulted in a very extraordinary product. The metallic perforated grill with the HSU logo attaches magnetically. I must admit the speaker looks great with the grill on or off especially in contrast to the black satin paint job of the demo speakers. Like two big yellow eyes staring at you of a gigantic beast. It has the same paint job as HSU’s VTF-3 mk5 sub and up. It also comes in the lovely Rosenut veneer that HSU offers for their VTF-15 mk2, ULS-15 mk2, HB-1 mk2, and HC-1 mk2 loudspeakers.


It has impedance of 8ohms, up to 400w of power, frequency response of 50Hz-20kHz, 94dB sensitivity (vs the 92dB sensitivity of the HB-1 mk2), 2kHz crossover between tweeter and woofer, and weighs in at 22lbs ea. It is made of ¾” MDF and has two 2.5” ports just north and south of the 5-way binding posts (if in the vertical orientation that is). The ports are also different in design than the HB-1 mk2. They are more flared and flush to the cabinets like the ports of HSU’s subs whereas the port on the HB-1 mk2 is a typical port and protruded ever so slightly from the cabinet. The budgeting audiophile can own an inexpensive receiver such as the Pioneer VSX-531 or up the ante to the Onkyo TX-NR626 (similar to the one in HSU’s demo room) and power these speakers with ease. HSU’s demo room also has a modest older model Sony CD player. This proves their products do not require amplifiers that break the bank. The CCB-8 welcomes any volume thrown at it especially with its 400w maximum output. Though the physical dimensions of the two are slight, the performance is where they differ substantially. Like I said before, the HB-1 mk2 is no slouch, but the CCB-8 just takes it up a notch.


The Sound Experience

In collaboration with the VTF-3 mk5 subwoofer, the CCB-8s audibly took me to another place. The highs and upper mid-bass emanated from the CCB-8s and everything under 80Hz was expertly handled by the VTF-3 mk5 with no sense of overwhelming. As with their HB-1 mk2s, the CCB-8s are toed-in at 15 degrees off the tweeter so that the virtual line of the tweeters crosses one to two feet in front of the listener. They do, however, need to be mounted slightly higher than the HB-1 mk2 speakers would be in order to be at ear level. This is due to the fact that the tweeter is in the center of the cabinet rather than near the top of the cabinet as in the HB-1 mk2. As Dr. Hsu explained and I obliged, whether standing, sitting, dead center, or off-axis the sound was coming at me the same. Even next to the wall to the left of the sitting position the sound stage was still balanced left to right. This feature is a result of the coaxial alignment of the drivers, which eliminates lobing issues. This also allows the speaker to be used as a center speaker in a home theater application with no deterioration of sound. The most astonishing characteristic of these speakers is the way the sound is capable of being, as HSU puts it, “equi distant from the tweeter and the woofer.” I understand that there are other speaker manufacturers that employ this same concept such as the Single 8HT from JTR. Not only was the stage balanced, but grand in scale. I could also pick out individual instruments throughout the room. In my opinion, there are subtle differences in sound character especially in the higher frequencies between these and the HB-1 mk2. They both have the same tweeter by the way. The horn of the CCB-8 is larger than that of the HB-1 mk2. The sound is a little more "upfront". Similar to the HB-1 mk2 the horn of the CCB-8 is not harsh, but pleasant to the ears with no fatigue and great clarity. The midrange has just as good transient response of the HB-1 mk2, but with more "weight" because it is 8". The two rear ports also help in this regard. It is not overwhelming though. With its 400w and 94dB sensitivity vs the 250w and 92dB sensitivity of the HB-1 mk2, the CCB-8 can provide peace of mind in a large room at reference volume. This is how it was at HSU’s demo room. Everyone's experience (and listening room for that matter) is different.


There were three instances that really stood out among the various tracks played for the demo session. One was a track by a choir performing John Rutter’s Requiem, specifically the “Pie Jesu” segment. The beginning of the track contains a few voices singing which then transitions to the full choir joining in which gave me goose bumps when that happened. I can’t speak for anyone else, but for me, when that happens as I’m listening to music through good speakers, it tells me that the product is good and has done its job and done it well. I could feel the mellow organ being played and the bass strings. The choir itself is an instrument as well and when the full choir came in it surrounded me as if I was part of the choir or standing in the middle of it anyway.


The second notable track is off one of my favorite soundtracks, The Dark Knight. Hans Zimmer’s driving percussions were rendered with expert force from the VTF-3 mk5. It wasn’t specified which track it was, but it seemed like the track “A Dark Knight”. The muted horn section also seemed be coming from all around just as the choir did in the Rutter track.


The last track was “Perfect Sense” by Roger Waters. This is an eclectic track with various sounds throughout but the most was in the first few minutes. In this track there are light percussion instruments in the front left and right of the soundstage along with Roger’s voice from the center, then a piano comes in and sounds as though it was from the right rear of the room. Another sound was like a reverse voice coming from the left rear of the room. This characteristic is what related all three tracks. The separation of the instruments and sounds as though the material was being played back in 5.1 audio instead of 2.1. At $369 plus $50 shipping (or free when picking up from their office) versus $899 of the Single 8HT, the CCB-8 is a tremendous value and highly recommended. Thank you Dr. Hsu and Kevin for a great experience.
 

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