My ideal desktop speakers

[sia rezaei]

I'm embarking on a new journey to make a set of new desktop speakers. When I make a good prototype, I'm gonna demo it to people, and if I feel there is demand, I may crowdfund it. I have some rough ideas, but I'd love to get the input of the community here. I want a very low distortion, and clear sounding speaker that has a very deep bass for its size. I think something like the Audio Engine A2 is too small for deep satisfying bass and something like A5 or JBL LS305 is too big for desktop use. So I'm thinking of a 4" woofer in a compact enclosure. With the magic of DSP, you can make a 4" woofer to play really deep while sounding tight and clear.

As for the connectivity options, I can't really make my mind. I personally like to have a USB or optical input (24bit/48Khz al least), but also balanced inputs for use in a home recording studio (A couple of friends and I have small home recording setups so that would be nice) On the other hand, bluetooth and wifi make a lot of sense too, because a lot of the time I take my laptop and go sit on a couch across the room. It would be nice to be still be able to play music through some sort of wireless connection.

What does your ideal set of compact speakers would look like? What features are nice to have? what are necessary?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

"With the magic of DSP, you can make a 4" woofer to play really deep while sounding tight and clear."
This is wrong on so many levels. You clearly have no idea how to build good sounding speakers.
size wise: My LSR2325p which were replaced by LSR305 are just fine size for my desk, but it's a matter of preference. I found that my jbls work better on stands anyhow rather than on the desk itself.

If you're serious about DIY bookshelves - check out Kits here: http://gr-research.com/
and designs like this one:
http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=MBOW1.html

 

[TheWarrior]

I'm embarking on a new journey to make a set of new desktop speakers. When I make a good prototype, I'm gonna demo it to people, and if I feel there is demand, I may crowdfund it. I have some rough ideas, but I'd love to get the input of the community here. I want a very low distortion, and clear sounding speaker that has a very deep bass for its size. I think something like the Audio Engine A2 is too small for deep satisfying bass and something like A5 or JBL LS305 is too big for desktop use. So I'm thinking of a 4" woofer in a compact enclosure. With the magic of DSP, you can make a 4" woofer to play really deep while sounding tight and clear.

As for the connectivity options, I can't really make my mind. I personally like to have a USB or optical input (24bit/48Khz al least), but also balanced inputs for use in a home recording studio (A couple of friends and I have small home recording setups so that would be nice) On the other hand, bluetooth and wifi make a lot of sense too, because a lot of the time I take my laptop and go sit on a couch across the room. It would be nice to be still be able to play music through some sort of wireless connection.

What does your ideal set of compact speakers would look like? What features are nice to have? what are necessary?

DSP cannot defy physics! You will never get deep (below 50 hz) bass out of a 4 inch driver. My suggestion would be to check out Presonus. I just ordered a pair of Eris 4.5's for my Dad to enjoy at his computer. In the next week or two I'll compare them to the Ceres which is an almost identical speaker, except that it has blue tooth and is designed for the rigors of transport.

Listening to the Ceres connected directly to a DVD player, and using the sub out to a JL Audio, it was superb! For a couple hundred bucks, you can't argue with that kind of an active solution! Search for sales, and you will do well!

 

[sia rezaei]

I'm fully aware that you can't defy the laws of physics with a DSP. But freedoms that come with a DSP allow you to extend the bass beyond what is traditionally possible while maintaining a very low group delay. I don't see any desktop speakers in the market taking advantage of those capabilities.

Where I have trouble making my mind is about connectivity options; USB vs. Bluetooth vs. Wifi vs. good old analog or all!

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm fully aware that you can't defy the laws of physics with a DSP. But freedoms that come with a DSP allow you to extend the bass beyond what is traditionally possible while maintaining a very low group delay. I don't see any desktop speakers in the market taking advantage of those capabilities.

Where I have trouble making my mind is about connectivity options; USB vs. Bluetooth vs. Wifi vs. good old analog or all!

You are just wrong on so many levels.

To get bass out of a four inch woofer would require a heavy cone. Then you would have no decent midrange..

The best you can do is use a ported enclosure and get an F3 somewhere between 50 and 60 Hz.

You can not use DSP as you can NOT equalize a ported enclosure, as it decouples from the box. The cone excursion just becomes excessive and useless with no output.

If you use a sealed enclosure, you will get and F3 somewhere between 100 and 120 Hz. You can equalize the speaker theoretically. However the power required would be enormous and the driver would go up in smoke.

The reason there is no product you describe, is because it is impossible given current drivers.

The solution is a subwoofer and there are lots of examples of desk top speakers plus sub.

Crowdfunding for your project would be fraud.

You need to educate yourself and start building and measuring quite a few designs before getting delusions of grandeur about selling a commercial product and going broke.

 

[sia rezaei]

You are just wrong on so many levels.

To get bass out of a four inch woofer would require a heavy cone. Then you would have no decent midrange..

The best you can do is use a ported enclosure and get an F3 somewhere between 50 and 60 Hz.

You can not use DSP as you can NOT equalize a ported enclosure, as it decouples from the box. The cone excursion just becomes excessive and useless with no output.

If you use a sealed enclosure, you will get and F3 somewhere between 100 and 120 Hz. You can equalize the speaker theoretically. However the power required would be enormous and the driver would go up in smoke.

The reason there is no product you describe, is because it is impossible given current drivers.

The solution is a subwoofer and there are lots of examples of desk top speakers plus sub.

Crowdfunding for your project would be fraud.

You need to educate yourself and start building and measuring quite a few designs before getting delusions of grandeur about selling a commercial product and going broke.

I have modeled, measured, and made upwards of 50 speakers of different shapes and sizes. I consider myself well versed in most aspects of loudspeaker and electronics design.
What I'm talking about here, is beyond the scope of this thread, but has been done and is being done in other products, just not in audiophile worthy speakers. The reason it hasn't been done, I suspect, is that most audiophile manufacturers are small, old, with no R&D budget/interest, and not well versed in DSP technology and electronics manufacturing.

I think I understand your frustration. There are many self proclaimed experts with strong opinions in these forums, but it isn't nice to call someone a fraud before you get to know them.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have modeled, measured, and made upwards of 50 speakers of different shapes and sizes. I consider myself well versed in most aspects of loudspeaker and electronics design.
What I'm talking about here, is beyond the scope of this thread, but has been done and is being done in other products, just not in audiophile worthy speakers. The reason it hasn't been done, I suspect, is that most audiophile manufacturers are small, old, with no R&D budget/interest, and not well versed in DSP technology and electronics manufacturing.

I think I understand your frustration. There are many self proclaimed experts with strong opinions in these forums, but it isn't nice to call someone a fraud before you get to know them.

In that case I'm going to pose to you a number of questions.

What do you have a against the use of a sub to extend the bass of the desk top speakers?

How do you propose to extend the bass of a ported box with DSP given that below tuning the driver will decouple? In other words do you concede the impossibility of any EQ including DSP to extend the bass response of a tuned vented system?

If you choose a sealed alignment then how will you cope with the heat generated in the VC from the power boost DSP will generate?

For your information many of us here are versed in DSP, and members here have produced excellent sealed subs using DSP, with drivers able to tolerate the power demands of DSP.

The point is there is no free lunch. I have demonstrated on these forums the direct correlation if reduction of enclosure size with decreasing enclosure size. That actually holds for whatever method of loading you choose.

 

[TheWarrior]

I have modeled, measured, and made upwards of 50 speakers of different shapes and sizes. I consider myself well versed in most aspects of loudspeaker and electronics design.
What I'm talking about here, is beyond the scope of this thread, but has been done and is being done in other products, just not in audiophile worthy speakers. The reason it hasn't been done, I suspect, is that most audiophile manufacturers are small, old, with no R&D budget/interest, and not well versed in DSP technology and electronics manufacturing.

I think I understand your frustration. There are many self proclaimed experts with strong opinions in these forums, but it isn't nice to call someone a fraud before you get to know them.

Crowd funding a DIY speaker claiming new 'science' with your own DSP program is fraud. Not you, per se.

Glad you've built so many, but trust us. A driver that size cannot do what you are asking.

 

[herbu]

most audiophile manufacturers are small, old, with no R&D budget/interest, and not well versed in DSP technology and electronics manufacturing.

Rats!!! And when I think about all the money I've wasted...

Sia, please let me know when your stuff is available.

 

[sia rezaei]

I rather not discuss loudspeaker alignments in this thread. When I start the project, I may start a design thread in DIYAudio and document the design process. Everyone will be welcome to come give their feedback about the specifics of acoustic and electronic design there. Either you learn something from me or I learn something from you. Either case someone wins.

 

[JRT3]

I live in the real world... I just repurposed my LSR-305's. One caveat - they are raised an inch and a half by resting on old boatbuilding text books lessen the sound-boarding effect the large desk provides and to use a couple of books displaced by the large bookshelf speakers . Okay, they are my current PC speakers - but seriously, they sound great and are ~2 ft from my, and canted towards, ears. I'm playing an old classic, "Wave" by A.C. Jobim, as I type this - and it sounds great. Not as great as my outboard bookshelf mounted Klipsch RB-81ii's and the assistance of my JBL SUB 550P, but still quite acceptable for a desktop situation. Of course, optical and USB inputs are dependent on your PC - the JBL powered monitors have only bal & unbal analog inputs.

 

[ski2xblack]

I have demonstrated on these forums the direct correlation if reduction of enclosure size with decreasing enclosure size.

Unpossible!