Mini VS In-Wall speakers

tenshi

tenshi

Audioholic Intern
I've finally finished wiring up our living room for 5.1 surround sound and I'm trying to decide on speakers. We currently have a 75" samsung JU7100 10-bit TV floating in the wall, Yamaha RX-V679BL receiver and a BIC America F12 subwoofer that's been sunk into the back of a closet adjacent to the room. I do not intend for this to be an audiophile setup. Instead, it is meant to be a compromise between aesthetics, price, and sound quality.

My first choice is to get 3 Cambridge Minx Min 22 Speakers for the front/center channels and 2 Cambridge Minx Min 12 speakers for the rear channels. The front and rear speakers would just be mounted in the top corners of the room facing toward the center. I'm still trying to figure out where to mount the center speaker.

I was, however, interested in looking at in-wall or in-ceiling speakers to see how they compare at a similar price range. Cutting and patching drywall is so easy that it would be tempting to sink the speakers to make them less noticeable. If I did this, What would be my options? In what positions should they be installed?, and How would the sound quality compare to the cambridge set?

The cambridge speakers themselves are pretty small, and I could potentially sink them into the drywall so that they are flush with the walls. Is this advisable? How much sound quality is lost by not being able to angle them toward the center of the room?

I was hoping for some opinions on my options. Are there any other small-sized speakers in a similar or lower price range that are recommended?
 
J

Jeffrey S. Albaugh

Audioholic
I've finally finished wiring up our living room for 5.1 surround sound and I'm trying to decide on speakers. We currently have a 75" samsung JU7100 10-bit TV floating in the wall, Yamaha RX-V679BL receiver and a BIC America F12 subwoofer that's been sunk into the back of a closet adjacent to the room. I do not intend for this to be an audiophile setup. Instead, it is meant to be a compromise between aesthetics, price, and sound quality.

My first choice is to get 3 Cambridge Minx Min 22 Speakers for the front/center channels and 2 Cambridge Minx Min 12 speakers for the rear channels. The front and rear speakers would just be mounted in the top corners of the room facing toward the center. I'm still trying to figure out where to mount the center speaker.

I was, however, interested in looking at in-wall or in-ceiling speakers to see how they compare at a similar price range. Cutting and patching drywall is so easy that it would be tempting to sink the speakers to make them less noticeable. If I did this, What would be my options? In what positions should they be installed?, and How would the sound quality compare to the cambridge set?

The cambridge speakers themselves are pretty small, and I could potentially sink them into the drywall so that they are flush with the walls. Is this advisable? How much sound quality is lost by not being able to angle them toward the center of the room?

I was hoping for some opinions on my options. Are there any other small-sized speakers in a similar or lower price range that are recommended?
 
J

Jeffrey S. Albaugh

Audioholic
Tenshi: Hello. I think I can help you as I have been installing system for more years then I care to talk about. First, IMHO, I prefer In Wall or In Ceiling speakers, although I have not seen your Room. I think it would be best if you can post pictures here for us to see what you are up against.
In walls & In ceiling speakers. They have improved greatly over the years with pivoting tweeters, etc. You can aim the sound to your liking. With In ceiling speakers you can achieve a better look, along with better placement. With In ceilings, it would first solve your dilema with the center channel speaker. You could place it exactly where it makes the most sense. With round speakers in your ceiling, it looks the best and does not call attention to itself like an On Wall speaker sticking out from the walls. That's the WAF Factor (wife acceptance factor). Round white speakers emmulate the look of in ceiling lights. You will need a subwoofer or (two), depending on your room. The BIC Subwoofer is just not that great. If you can, lets see a few pictures. Thank you & welcome to the Forum.
 
tenshi

tenshi

Audioholic Intern
Hi @Jeffrey S. Albaugh
Thanks for your reply. Here are a few quick snaps of our living room. I'm refinishing our "new" house room by room, so please excuse the mess.
livingroom1.jpg

livingroom2.jpg

livingroom3.jpg

subwoofer1.jpg

subwoofer2.jpg

As for the Subwoofer, you can see it in the last 3 pictures sunken into the back of an adjacent closet. One of the advantages of this position is that it's very close to the couch where we sit. Without speakers hooked up to the receiver, I've put it on a delay to sync up with our TV speakers so I could test for rattle in real-world scenarios.

I did a lot of research several years ago, and the BIC America really seems to best bang for your buck. There were a lot of claims across independent sites that the BIC Accoustic and BIC America were the overall best sub $400 subwoofers. I used this one for a couple years in another setup and my only complaint has been that it's very big. I will probably use a BIC Accoustic when I finish my office/man cave. What are your criticisms of them?

In the first picture, you can see the floating TV. I'll probably end up building a pretty frame to go around it. Would it be better to position the speakers in-wall or in-ceiling? Unfortunately, there's a big ole beam running up the dead center of the ceiling that would make it difficult to center the center channel up there.
 
J

Jeffrey S. Albaugh

Audioholic
Hi @Jeffrey S. Albaugh
Thanks for your reply. Here are a few quick snaps of our living room. I'm refinishing our "new" house room by room, so please excuse the mess.
View attachment 19476
View attachment 19477
View attachment 19478
View attachment 19479
View attachment 19480
As for the Subwoofer, you can see it in the last 3 pictures sunken into the back of an adjacent closet. One of the advantages of this position is that it's very close to the couch where we sit. Without speakers hooked up to the receiver, I've put it on a delay to sync up with our TV speakers so I could test for rattle in real-world scenarios.

I did a lot of research several years ago, and the BIC America really seems to best bang for your buck. There were a lot of claims across independent sites that the BIC Accoustic and BIC America were the overall best sub $400 subwoofers. I used this one for a couple years in another setup and my only complaint has been that it's very big. I will probably use a BIC Accoustic when I finish my office/man cave. What are your criticisms of them?

In the first picture, you can see the floating TV. I'll probably end up building a pretty frame to go around it. Would it be better to position the speakers in-wall or in-ceiling? Unfortunately, there's a big ole beam running up the dead center of the ceiling that would make it difficult to center the center channel up there.
Tenshi: Thanks for the pictures. That really helps me to see the possibilities in your room. Looks like you are off to a great start. Now I can help you more. There are several ideas for you. 1. You can use In Ceiling speakers where you are able to do so. Looks like you should do an In Wall speaker above your TV. 2. You could use In Wall Speakers for your surround speakers. Are you planning to do 5.1, or 7.1 Surround? Which A/V Receiver are you using? Also, for a room this size it would be an advantage to have 2 subwoofers. Since subwoofer bass is non- directional, so there is a lot of leadway as to where you can place the 2nd Sub in your room. 3. You could also run speaker wires below the floor, if there is an unfinished basement below it. 4. Seeing that you have those dark beams on your ceiling, you could get black speaker wire and staple it to the side of your beams. It would be almost unnoticable. Which part of the country are you in? In terms of your BIC Sub, not to disparage you, but I believe these are made in China. Not exactly high end. IMHO, I think in today's world, there are many other choices there; including HSU, SVS, and many more. Anyway, I hope this helps. Good luck.
 
tenshi

tenshi

Audioholic Intern
@Jeffrey S. Albaugh
Thanks for the reply. Most of the information is in the original post. I'm doing 5.1 driven by a Yamaha RX-V679BL receiver. I'm not sure if it has support for multiple subs in the same zone. I live in southern California. What considerations does geographical location require?

As for running the wires, that's not a problem at all. The attic is quite extensive and there is an enormous amount of space above that room. Walls are drywall with studs. Occasional, random horizontal block is the only thing standing in my way.

If I went with in-wall speakers, I was thinking about placing them in a row close to the top of the wall. Is that advisable? I'd get something with white mesh, if possible, and frame them to look pretty if they did not already come with a frame.

I think the biggest thing that I need to know now is what in-wall speakers to use. What offers comparable or better performance at a similar or lower price point as the cambridge minx speakers?

I looked at the SVS subwoofers. At 3 and 4 times the price of the BIC subs, I'd definitely expect them to be better. Again, I think that BIC is the best bang for the buck. Going higher than that requires commitment and a much larger budget. Are you referring to these subs wrt the HSU brand?: http://www.hsuresearch.com/ . If so, which do you recommend?

Thanks again for all of your help.
 
Last edited:
J

Jeffrey S. Albaugh

Audioholic
@Jeffrey S. Albaugh
Thanks for the reply. Most of the information is in the original post. I'm doing 5.1 driven by a Yamaha RX-V679BL receiver. I'm not sure if it has support for multiple subs in the same zone. I live in southern California. What considerations does geographical location require?

As for running the wires, that's not a problem at all. The attic is quite extensive and there is an enormous amount of space above that room. Walls are drywall with studs. Occasional, random horizontal block is the only thing standing in my way.

If I went with in-wall speakers, I was thinking about placing them in a row close to the top of the wall. Is that advisable? I'd get something with white mesh, if possible, and frame them to look pretty if they did not already come with a frame.

I think the biggest thing that I need to know now is what in-wall speakers to use. What offers comparable or better performance at a similar or lower price point as the cambridge minx speakers?

I looked at the SVS subwoofers. At 3 and 4 times the price of the BIC subs, I'd definitely expect them to be better. Again, I think that BIC is the best bang for the buck. Going higher than that requires commitment and a much larger budget. Are you referring to these subs wrt the HSU brand?: http://www.hsuresearch.com/ . If so, which do you recommend?

Thanks again for all of your help.
Tenshi: You can still do 2 Subs. All you need is a simple inexpensive Y adapter that goes from 1 RCA to 2. Voila. Or you can buy a small distribution amp Radio shack has them for about $25.00. In terms of In Wall speakers, there are lots of good ones out there. I use Niles Audio, Snap A/V, Proficient, Pinnacle, Sonance, SpeakerCraft, and more. With pivoting tweeters, you can place the In walls near the ceiling. I was just curious where you were in the Country. No big deal. We are just over 3,000 miles away.
 
tenshi

tenshi

Audioholic Intern
@Jeffrey S. Albaugh
Thanks again. When you asked for location, It thought that maybe things like elevation, temperature, or moisture might be factors.

Your recommendation includes dozens if not hundreds of speakers. Do you have any more specific suggestions on the speakers? I'm looking for something in the $200 or less per speaker range. From what I'm reading, it looks like a lot of the in-ceiling speakers are meant to be used for whole-house music and not for cinema. How can I tell the difference?
 
J

Jeffrey S. Albaugh

Audioholic
@Jeffrey S. Albaugh
Thanks again. When you asked for location, It thought that maybe things like elevation, temperature, or moisture might be factors.

Your recommendation includes dozens if not hundreds of speakers. Do you have any more specific suggestions on the speakers? I'm looking for something in the $200 or less per speaker range. From what I'm reading, it looks like a lot of the in-ceiling speakers are meant to be used for whole-house music and not for cinema. How can I tell the difference?
Tenshi: Ceiling Speakers are not specific to Whole House Systems. Yes, there are various Quality & prices; some better, some worse. A $200. pair will not be the best. If you have a Subwoofer, you don't need speakers with deep bass, since your Sub will handle it well. What's more important is the Tweeter, midrange. You would be just fine with a 6 1/2" woofer. They all have perforated grills. Another place you can go to (not expensive) would be www.partsexpress.com. All the brands I mentioned above are quite good. Youy can go to those websites as well. Happy shopping. There is also a company in Californis called Earthquakesound.com. I have used their speakers, Subwoofers; also very nice. Happy shopping.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
That should be a good sounding room, with the sloped ceiling above the TV. In that room mini speakers will a waste of time. Ceiling speakers are just about acceptable for surrounds, if you really must.

In walls can work OK, but that room looks to me to be just crying out for some really nice speakers.

I would strongly recommend some really nice free standing speakers for the front three at least. I would put the center above or below the TV. Above the TV would be best, for the mains get it so the tweeter are 36" above the floor.

The room is really open plan and I would not bother with surrounds. I would go 3.1.

I have the same situation in our Eagan home. It is open plan, and I have it 3.1 there. The ceiling slopes up from the speakers like that, and the room sounds very good indeed.
 
tenshi

tenshi

Audioholic Intern
I've looked at these. At $100 apiece I could get 5 alpha series 8" in wall speakers; for about $500 (maybe use the smaller 6" for the rear speakers.)

Any idea how these would compare with the Cambridge minx mini speakers? Would their relative size make them better despite being half cost?

-- edit --
I realized they are sold as a pair, so you get two 8" speakers for about $110. Anyone know the practical difference between the carbon fiber and Kevlar versions?
 
Last edited:
tenshi

tenshi

Audioholic Intern
That should be a good sounding room, with the sloped ceiling above the TV. In that room mini speakers will a waste of time. Ceiling speakers are just about acceptable for surrounds, if you really must.

In walls can work OK, but that room looks to me to be just crying out for some really nice speakers.

I would strongly recommend some really nice free standing speakers for the front three at least. I would put the center above or below the TV. Above the TV would be best, for the mains get it so the tweeter are 36" above the floor.

The room is really open plan and I would not bother with surrounds. I would go 3.1.

I have the same situation in our Eagan home. It is open plan, and I have it 3.1 there. The ceiling slopes up from the speakers like that, and the room sounds very good indeed.
Hi @TLS Guy ,
We're walking a line between asthetics and sound in the family room. I'm in the process of finishing and sound proofing my office / man cave directly below this room. I'm going to go projector with an acoustically transparent fixed screen so that I can put my gigantic bookshelf speakers in a row at eye level for better performance.

WRT the center channel, I've noticed a general trend where the optimal location for the TV and the optimal location for the center channel speaker are the same, leading to a compromise. In this case, is it better to raise the left/right speaker so that all 3 speakers share the same height, or is it better to have the center channel a couple feet higher than the left/right?

Wife would not allow big free standing speakers in the living room. If I want to bring the front speakers down to eye/ear level, I could probably get away with in wall speakers sunken flush with the wall.

I definitely want rear speakers. With such a cavernous attic system above and hollow walls, it is turning out to be relatively easy to run speaker wires. I'm also very good at cutting and patching drywall.
 
tenshi

tenshi

Audioholic Intern
After doing some research, I think that I will go with these:

https://www.amazon.com/Micca-M-8S-Speaker-Pivoting-Tweeter/dp/B003JOPWHK/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

They're almost the exact same price as the monoprice speakers, but have slightly higher ratings from multiple sites. In addition, they pivot and come as single speakers instead of pairs (means that I can buy 5 instead of 6 for a 5.1 system) saving me $50.

I was thinking about getting 5 of the 8" in-wall speakers using one of them as a center channel. I plan to run all of them along the top of the wall near the ceiling, placing them at the 4 corners of the room with the center channel directly below the center beam above the TV.

Aesthetically, They would look better if I mounted them horizontally instead of vertically (upright). Is there any reason not to do this?

I also noticed that the 6.5" speakers seem to be more popular than the 8" speakers. Is there any performance reason, or is this simply Aesthetics?

Thanks again for any advice.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I really don't know squat about in-wall speakers, but saw that A4L has some in-wall speakers made by reputable companies (Niles, Boston Acoustics, Canton, Yamaha) that fit your budget:
http://www.accessories4less.com/?type=&page=category&action=&id=spkinwall&skip_redirect_suffix=&view_id=98e42d42b3e7fe89ca5ba69be7b906bbee6c07d6&mode=&search_query=&category=&thumb_sort=store_price.asc

I would consider TLSGuys suggestion to go 3.1 or at least use better speakers for the front 3 and lessor speakers for the surrounds.

Note that the Boston Acoustics VRi-793 is discounted from $1800 to $230. Be sure to research them, but that is an incredible discount if they are actually good speakers (I know BA is capable of making good speakers, just don't know about these).

Edit: OOPS - they only have one of those left. That is why it is so cheap!
 
tenshi

tenshi

Audioholic Intern
Thanks @KEW. I was hoping to get some specific suggestions for in-wall speaker models, but I haven't received any. I suspect that they're not used much by the people on this forum. Thanks for the link to A4Less, that's a useful resource.

Polk has slightly better models. At twice the price, they're still very cheap: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006I5O6/ref=as_li_tl?tag=pmagus-20&ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00006I5O6&linkCode=as2&linkId=5MAGHBAZSYIYQ6YM

They also seem to make some very nice 3-way center channel speakers comparably. I've heard that going with 3 identical speakers is usually best. Would anyone recommend replacing an additional polk or micca 8" in-wall speakers as a center channel with something like this?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004L9GWSK/?tag=constop-20
 
tenshi

tenshi

Audioholic Intern
One last question regarding the in-wall speakers. I've seen that some people create enclosure boxes on the back end. I understand they're a bit more important for round in-ceiling speakers. Can anyone provide info on if and how this should be done? Would it be enough to create them with cardboard?
 
J

Jeffrey S. Albaugh

Audioholic
One last question regarding the in-wall speakers. I've seen that some people create enclosure boxes on the back end. I understand they're a bit more important for round in-ceiling speakers. Can anyone provide info on if and how this should be done? Would it be enough to create them with cardboard?
Cardboard? Are you kidding me? There are brands that have back boxes such as Speakercraft, Speakco, and others.
 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top