Macroblocking

Discussion in 'CD/DVD/Blu-ray & Misc Hardware' started by tcm5, Nov 5, 2007.

  1. tcm5 Audioholic Intern

    tcm5
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    I have a Panasonic TH-42PX75U, native rez 720P and an Oppo 981H. I calibrated the Panny with DVE disk. I have had this combo since September and have not seen any Macroblocking. The other night I watched the new Kevin Costner film, "Mr Brooks." It is a very dark movie. In the 2nd scene Kevin Costner talks with John Hurt as they drive through the night. Depending on the lighting I could see MB on the faces of both. I saw MB on there faces in many other scenes throughout the movie. I have seen numerous postings about the Oppo 981, the Faroudja chip and MB on line, with all kinds of opinions, but have not read anything about MB effecting flesh tones. I called Oppo and spoke with service for quite awhile (great service) to make sure I had purchased the right Oppo. Oppo service said due to compression there is MB on a large percentage of DVDs and that this movie may display MB more than another. I played the movie on my Denon 1600 and saw the same effect, the Denon has a Faroudja chip also. Has anyone seen this movie with their system and noticed MB. Is it the DVD, the Oppo, the Panasonic or the combination of some or all. Can someone let me know other movies that display MB so I can check out the Oppo further.
    tcm5,
  2. 3db Audioholic Overlord

    3db
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    what is macroblocking?
    3db,
  3. ParadigmDawg Audioholic Warlord

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    I just popped it in both my DLP/PS3 system and my plasma/ up-converting DVD system and I see what you are saying. I don't think this is macro-blocking, I think it is just the effects used in the movie. Remember John Hurt isn't really there and when I see it on Kevin's face it is during parts where he is imagining stuff. I liked the movie by the way...pretty darn creepy.
  4. billy p Audioholic Ninja

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    I not 100% certain but MB is when the Contrast or Brightness(whites & blacks) get washed out or skewed. I myself am using a DLP tv and the oppo dv971 which make can make matters worst in extreme darkened or very white scenes, but IMO it has more to do with the dvd you where viewing then your setup because you didn't experience this issue before.:)
  5. Tom Andry Speaker of the House

    Tom Andry
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    Macroblocking is USUALLY inherent to the disc (the first Matrix movie is famous for it) but can be made worse by poor video processing. I watched Mr. Brooks and noticed Macroblocking with my Denon 3910 (which has excellent processing) so I doubt it is the Oppo's fault.
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  6. agarwalro Audioholic Ninja

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    Macroblocking aka. "Macroblocking Enhancement Bug", is a video processing issue that causes solid areas to appear "blocky" rather than smooth gradation from dark to light. Its appearence depends on the video processing chipset and the combination of the player and display. Some combinations are more prone than other.

    Example, like on the wall in the background in this still,

    [​IMG]


    It is the player and display combination. You already know the issue is in the Faroudja chipset which is in DVD players. The Panny's are also prone to MB. I see it sometimes on my 3910 and Panny setup.
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  7. agarwalro Audioholic Ninja

    agarwalro
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    After reading many reviews that claimed MB does not exist on the 3910, I started to think mine was a lemon. That is a big weight off my head. Thanks!
  8. billy p Audioholic Ninja

    billy p
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    Heh

    Excellent example!! I would wager most people don't even notice when it occurs during dvd playback. Heck, I even re-connected my progressive scan dvd player and it still at times can be an issue(at least with me:eek:).:)
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2007
  9. Hi Ho Audioholic Samurai

    Hi Ho
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    Whith your TV on the DVD input, go into the picture settings in your TV. Turn the sharpness setting to zero and turn on MPEG NR. This should help quite a bit. I would also recommend setting the picture mode to Standard and turning off Color Management.
  10. sahihai Junior Audioholic

    sahihai
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    Some examples of MBE in case anyone wants to run more tests...

    1. Matrix (when Morpheus shows matrix for the first time and scene is with a complete white background)
    2. Harry Potter & Chamber of secrets (chapter 2, when Harry enters his room and the elf is jumping on his bed. Look at the wall)
    3. Monsters Inc (Opening sequence in the room of the simulated child)
    4. LOTR 3 (Lighting the Beacons - images of the sky)

    To what I understand, the MBE can be due to bad signal on DVDs or due to bandwidth issues on the processor or chip (such as the DCDi). This can be more pronounced on DLP displays.
  11. tcm5 Audioholic Intern

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    Mb

    I'm glad I posted this thread. I googled Macroblocking and got thousands of hits. They went back a few years too. Most of the hits were threads in various AV forums with all kinds of opinions and answers. There may be no answer just poorly mastered DVDs. It's interesting that people on this forum saw what I saw with very different systems. In one of my conversations with Oppo they said you could see MB with a HD Player as well. Has anyone seen this? Oppo also told me they had secured the licenses for both HD and BD, but no comment beyond that. Waiting for an Oppo universal player that plays HD formats may well be worth the wait if you are still on the fence.
    tcm5,
  12. Joe Schmoe Audioholic Ninja

    Joe Schmoe
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    I always thought that it referred to large rectangular areas of solid color replacing detail, as though the pixels were huge. I have seen this on digital cable broadcasts when there is interference of some kind.
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  13. tcm5 Audioholic Intern

    tcm5
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    These definitions are from Wikidpedia.


    Macroblock
    Macroblock is a term used in video compression, which represents a block of 16 by 16 pixels. Each macroblock contains 4 Y block, 1 Cb block, 1 Cr block (4:2:0). (It also could be represented by 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 YCbCr format). Macroblocks can be subdivided further into smaller blocks, called partitions. H.264, for example, supports block sizes as small as 4x4.


    Macroblocking
    This is a non-technical term used when macroblocks are missing and show up as video errors. Square areas of the picture do not show the correct portion of the image, but instead show a single color block. Advanced decoders hide these types of errors in a term called error concealment.

    Note it just states video error
    tcm5,
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  14. agarwalro Audioholic Ninja

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    MB is essentially a consequence of compression. DVDs being 480i, if the player is set to output at a format any higher than 480i, it's processor is trying to add data where there is none, and failing.

    Processing/ scaling logic can be optimized to reduce this effect, but all but the highest caliber video processors stumble on this one.
  15. avliner Audioholic Chief

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    tcm5,

    I have the same TV and player as you and never had any MB issues whatsoever.

    Out of curiosity, at what resolution did you set your Oppo?

    Regards, Chuck
  16. tcm5 Audioholic Intern

    tcm5
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    Mb

    I have the Oppo 981 set to 720p. In the initial post I stated I hadn't seen MB on any DVDs until I watched the movie Mr Brooks (see the 1st post). I havn't checked out some of the other DVDs mentioned where MB is a problem. Overall I am very happy with the system.
    tcm5,
  17. avliner Audioholic Chief

    avliner
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    Thanks tcm5,

    regarding to the resolution mode, in my case 480p is better than any other though, so I've set that out and I'm pretty much happy with the results.

    Why don't you try 480p with the same movie, just to cross-check whether MB is still present?

    Regards, Chuck
  18. ParadigmDawg Audioholic Warlord

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    It's the movie not the TV or DVD player!
  19. avliner Audioholic Chief

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    Greg,

    if that really holds true, which I do believe, then there's kinda misconception regarding to the MB issues, IMO.

    It's widely spread that the Oppo with Faroudja chip is going to have MB issues. Same case applies to Pana plasmas though.

    People are then blaming the wrong person in this case, right?

    Would like to elaborate a bit better on this:)

    Regards, Chuck
  20. tcm5 Audioholic Intern

    tcm5
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    Mb

    I tried all the HDMI settings 480P through 1080P, MB was still the same. Whats the point of having an upscaling player if you don't upscale.
    tcm5,

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