Low Budget Subwoofer Newbie

[herdofem]

I have an Onkyo TX8050 2.1 receiver, a pair of NHT Superzeros and a WiConnect Velodyne Wireless subwoofer, (apparantly based upon the VX-11 sub).

The receiver does not have bass management and sends a full range signal out its single subwoofer output, or LR Pre Outs. The Velodyne calls for connecting the wireless transmitter box using the LR audio inputs instead of the single input designed for receivers with an LFE output, if you want to take advantage of the low pass filter on the sub. So I use the two Pre Outs on the back of the Onkyo instead of the single sub out.

I tried both setups, using the single out and the LR Pre Outs. In both cases, with my main speakers off, with the low pass filter set to 80 Hz on the sub I can hear vocals (about the same volume using both setups. Using the LR Pre Outs Bass is a bit stronger. Not sure why?), not loud but I can hear them 8 feet away with sub set at the volume I would normally use. Would a HT receiver with bass management eliminate the vocals problem? Are low pass filters inferior to crossovers on receivers? Or is the Velodyne that bad? I love the imaging the superzeros provide, but I don't want to degrade it with bad bass management. Which should I dump first the Velodyne or the Onkyo? Is the Denon AVR-E300 a good alternative to the Onkyo? Since I'm not using HT can anyone suggest an older less expensive (Ebay) HT (for bass mangement) unit?

I primarily listen to high quality mp3s, or flacs through digital out (Toslink) from my computer to a receiver in a 12' x 20' room (open at the listeners end to a dining room).

 

[rojo]

I googled the Onkyo receiver and downloaded the manual, and damned if you ain't correct about there being no crossover on the sub out. Huh. I didn't Google your Velodyne sub though. Too lazy.

Anyway, unless someone else offers a better solution, if you dig your current speakers and receiver, you could try adding one of these inline 70Hz 12dB/octave low pass filters on your sub.

Course if you're hoping for advice from an enabler talking you into getting a new sub, your music would sound awfully good with a new svs or hsu sub.

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk

 

[Adam]

Welcome to the forum!

A couple of things:
1. If you use the LFE jack on the wireless transmitter, it will bypass the low pass frequency setting on the subwoofer. So, no matter what you have that dial set at, it will be sending a full range signal (due to your Onkyo not having bass management) through the sub
2. When using the LR audio outputs, have you tried adjusting the low pass on the sub? For example, if you set it to the minimum of 50Hz, can you hear vocals from the sub?

Looking at Velodyne's literature, I don't see it mention the slope on the low pass filter. 12dB/octave is a slope that I'm used to seeing. It might be less on that Velodyne, but I'm not aware of the filters in subs being inferior to those in receivers.

 

[herdofem]

Thanks. I might try the 100 Hz low pass, since the Superzeros are 85 Hz - 20 Khz. Yes, the SVS and HSU seem pretty popular.

 

[herdofem]

I still hear the vocals at 50 Hz but the volume is less: Bass and vocals seem to decrease equally.

 

[JBL1964]

I also have the Onkyo TX-8050 with JBL es series speakers and a Klipsch PSW112 sub and i get hard pounding low end bass. I had a JBL PSW150 but sub went bad after a short period of time. I barely if any hear any vocals from the sub. That is strange?.

 

[herdofem]

Thanks JBL1964. Getting the additional Low Pass filter (100 Hz) rojo recommended may help if I use the single sub out form the Onkyo to to the Single in on the Velodyne transmitter which is supposed to bypass Velodyne's low pass filter which doesn't seem to work very well.

 

[herdofem]

An improvement after receiving the 100 Hz low pass widgets that rojo recommended.
I have one of the widgets in line with the sub out from the Onkyo to the LFE in on the wireless transmitter for the Velodyne WIConnect.
Velodyne indicates that this setup bypasses Velodyne's Low Pass filter, but I adjusting the low pass on sub makes a difference. Why? What's the appropriate low pass setting on the sub with this setup?
Can anyone play this midrange frequency on their sub without hearing it?? Subwoofer Midrange Test - Crossover Frequency Test. Comes through clearly on the Velodyne.

 

[rojo]

Glad to know it was an improvement, but you might have been happier with the 70Hz filter I recommended. Remember that the rolloff is 12dB/octave. So at 100Hz your sub is playing full volume. At 150Hz it's about 6dB softer but still audible, and at 200Hz (an octave above 100), another 6dB. Still audible probably, but not significantly, especially while your superzeros are playing.

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk

 

[herdofem]

Thanks rojo. System sounded pretty good last night (good imaging from superzeros) with pass on sub set to about 100 hz (it's not bypassed using LFE input on transmitter)) and volume on sub set to the mark just past half. For 30 buck maybe I'll try the 70 at some point. Do sub crossovers in HT amps ie a 100 hz setting use the same 12db/ octave typically?

 

[rojo]

Typically, yeah, but a crossover point at 80Hz is more common. I think around 80Hz is regarded as the general area where sound is perceived with more direction, and thus, needs to be staged by your mains rather than your sub.

I wonder whether Parts Express could just exchange it for you? They've got a 30 day return policy iirc.

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk

 

[herdofem]

I removed the purchased 100 hz passive crossover. I think it was just taking away dbs going to the subwoofer. I'm learning more about 12 db/ octave low pass filter. If I set the crossover point at 100 Hz the falloff in volume for frequencies higher than 100 hz is gradual up about 10,000 Hz, as shown here Car Audio Basics.

So I would think with most subs using a 12/ octave low pass filter or crossover in the amp, you'll here some midrange. Audiocheck.net infers it is a crossover failure if you here midrange frequencies during their Subwoofer Crossover Test 1, 120hz -300 hz Subwoofer Midrange Test - Crossover Frequency Test