Fatty

Fatty

Audiophyte
I want new bass. Currently I'm using a DIY Bill Fitzmaurice Tuba HT.
I have been battling between a pair of SVS PC-2000's and a single HSU VTF15h Mk2. (with a hopeful upgrade to dual. I Finally decided to do the Hsu and then saw something about the Dayton 18" ultimax in a sealed box. I could do two of those powered by a Behringer EP4000 for the same price as on HSU. Now I don't know what to do.

Like everyone else I want bottomless bass at high volumes and it needs to be super clean and tight.
The room is sealed 21' 6" front to back, 16' side to side with an 8' suspended ceiling.

Current system7.1.4 Yamaha 3050 for processing, Polk SDA SRS 2.3 for mains, nice Klipsch center, Klipsch surrounds and rears all bookshelfs, Yamaha 8" x 4 overhead, and the afore mentioned folded horn sub. Power is all Adcom GFA-555II's across the front and Adcom 100w per channel over head, the yammy running all 4 surrounds. 100" screen up font and my fat self sits 8 or nine feet from the screen. Mostly movies. I have a miniDSP2x4 HD and REW but haven't used them yet.



Question is, HSU VTF 15 x 1 (possibly 2 down the road) or Dayton 18 in the sealed box x2? I'm a little worried that the Dayton sealed will only move air at high volumes. Normal listening will be without bass. Also worried that 2 may kill me at high volumes. I can see the headline now "Fat guy found dead in basement with popcorn in hand"
 
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BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
It seems to me as nothing, which is but an educated guess, is that no commercial sub in your budget will be able to catch up with your tuba. Not even close.
 
Fatty

Fatty

Audiophyte
really!?
I want more.

Maybe I just need another tuba. I went to a dudes house. He had twin PB13 ultra's. That started all this. I don't get the tightness I desire from the tuba. I have a sealed 10 in my CRV it sounds very good. powering it with about 500 watts.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
The Hsu VTF15h mk2s are killer, but I think two UM18s with almost 1 kW each would probably be a tad better and cost a lot less.

Also, the 'tightness' you are looking for might have more to do with frequency response than any quality or lack thereof in the subwoofer itself. What you need to do is get multiple subs and place them in locations where they compliment the overall frequency response to get you the flattest response. Only then can you really pin the problem on the sub.
 
Fatty

Fatty

Audiophyte
I guess another reason to change is size. My seat can't move. A sub that is 2 ft x 3 ft by 6 ft is difficult to reposition and has very few possibilities for alternative placement. Two 2 ft cubes would be more flexible and possibly justify the change.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
really!?
I want more.

Maybe I just need another tuba. I went to a dudes house. He had twin PB13 ultra's. That started all this. I don't get the tightness I desire from the tuba. I have a sealed 10 in my CRV it sounds very good. powering it with about 500 watts.
I'm wondering if you built that horn correctly. In particular did you use the correct driver which is the Dayton RSS390 HF4 driver?

If you use the wrong driver then the design will not work. Horns usually have a very tight bass. However they are reliant on room loading more than other designs. In some positions in some rooms the room loading can be excessive.

The other issue that you need to consider, is that is what is perceived as bass is largely well above sub range. It is that area between 80 and 400 Hz that is perceived as bass. So the quality of the main speakers is of overriding importance. If the bass in that range is of poor quality no sub will rectify it.

Your speakers are from the eighties and never much good despite what you might read on line.



The speaker has a bunch of small drivers, which if I remember had an interconnecting cable between the outer set of drivers to modify the sound stage.

However the real problem is the small drivers have a high free air resonance. This determines how low they will play. Adding a bunch of small drivers does not give you any more low end extension than a single driver. It just gives more power handling and requires a larger cabinet. Size of cabinet has to be doubled every time you double the number of drivers.

This speaker is tuned by the passive radiator lower front. This is no different than a tuning port. The speaker was miss tuned to give the impression of bass. In other words you create a hump to give a false bass.

If you are suffering from lack if a tight bass, then I'm sure it is your Polk speakers to blame and not the horn sub.

I think you need much better mains before changing your sub.
 
Fatty

Fatty

Audiophyte
yes I used the right driver, yes I built it like I was supposed to. no air leaks etc.

As for the mains I like them. Maybe they don't have the best bottom end but I am augmenting them with a sub. I have owned them for 30 years and really like them mid bas is exactly why I like them, IMO the sound good, it's what I like. I want to change the bottom end. not the mid or highs I am very happy with them. I would think that quality 6 1/2 inch drivers in multiples could do 80 hz and up.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
yes I used the right driver, yes I built it like I was supposed to. no air leaks etc.

As for the mains I like them. Maybe they don't have the best bottom end but I am augmenting them with a sub. I have owned them for 30 years and really like them mid bas is exactly why I like them, IMO the sound good, it's what I like. I want to change the bottom end. not the mid or highs I am very happy with them. I would think that quality 6 1/2 inch drivers in multiples could do 80 hz and up.
yes I used the right driver, yes I built it like I was supposed to. no air leaks etc.

As for the mains I like them. Maybe they don't have the best bottom end but I am augmenting them with a sub. I have owned them for 30 years and really like them mid bas is exactly why I like them, IMO the sound good, it's what I like. I want to change the bottom end. not the mid or highs I am very happy with them. I would think that quality 6 1/2 inch drivers in multiples could do 80 hz and up.
You did not listen to what I said. A speaker that is properly balanced and damped that rolls off starting around 80 Hz does no sound bass shy. It sounds good. 80 Hz to 400 Hz is NOT midrange it is bass.

The number of drivers is irrelevant, totally to bass extension. One driver will have the same bass roll off point as 10 of the same drivers. That is the physics of it. If you have a miss tuned enclosure with a resonant bass, then NO sub will solve it.

This is a common problem realizing that good bass performance has much more to do with the main speakers than the sub. Although a bad sub can upset good speakers.
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
He had twin PB13 ultra's. That started all this.
Notwithstanding the technical direction this thread has taken, I'll comment on your statement. I have 1 PB13U and 1 Rythmik FV15HP, and I completely understand your impression at the dude's house. Even in a large, open, cathedral ceiling room, this pair can rattle your spleen and vibrate the windows like the head of a bass drum. I am quite sure the chest thump of bombs and monster stomps would register like a heart attack on an EKG.

You should listen to these guys for their technical expertise. They know what they're talking about. I don't... but I can tell you a pair of PB13Us or FV15HPs would rock your world, (and your belly).
 
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