Just Retired

[Silverfoxvtx]

I see that let me give it a try.....you will get me there.....

 

[lovinthehd]

You were trying to change surround levels, forgot to ask why? Where did you position the surround speakers?

 

[herbu]

You were trying to change surround levels, forgot to ask why?

I'm wondering about that too.
OP, what do you mean that you can't adjust the surround volume? During setup you can individually adjust the volume of each speaker. During playback your master volume controls all speakers equally.

Now, everybody likes what they like. I'll tell you that since almost all audio recordings are mastered in stereo, (2 channels only... front left & front right), that's the way most of us prefer to listen to music. When you add surround speakers, you lose the effect of the music sounding like it's coming from a stage in front of you. But if you have a room full of people, (a party), adding the surrounds means you can normalize the music volume so it's not too loud in front of the room and too soft in back of the room.

Surround sound is generally used for TV/Movies, and the audio in most modern TV shows and movies is mastered in a surround mode... usually "5.1".

You have 4 of the "5" in "5.1". They're your Front L&R, and your Surround L&R. The thing you're missing is the Center. It is unfortunate for TV/Movies because maybe 90% of the sound in TV/Movies is mastered for the Center speaker. Think about it this way. Every sound in a TV show or movie that is supposed to originate from something happening on the screen, will be mastered to the Center speaker. If somebody on-screen is talking, their voice comes from the Center. It would be weird if you saw something happen on-screen, but the audio came from behind you.

If you don't have a Center, those sounds are split equally between your Left & Right. If you're properly balanced, this will indeed provide the audible illusion of the sound coming from the middle, thus it's called using a "phantom" Center.

The other thing you're missing is the "1" in "5.1". That is the subwoofer. Many of us consider one or more of these critical. The "1" is a separate channel just like "Left" and "Right" are separate channels. It gets a signal called Low Frequency Effects, (LFE). These are the booms and rumbles in explosions and monster stomps that shake your chair and thump you in the chest. But in addition, a subwoofer helps greatly with normal bass that is difficult for all but very expensive speakers to produce.

So think about what you want. Mainly music? TV/Movies? Just you? Parties? Chest thumps? All of it? Trust me, we'll be more than happy to help you spend your money! (Just kidding.)

 

[gzubeck]

I was a trucker for 40 years just retired and loving it. I have the time now to hang out and watch tv and listen to good tunes. I have a missed match system and do not know what to do with it. I haven't a clue what to buy.
I have 2 Klipsch forte speakers which are 4 ohm and 2 older Definitive BP-8 tower speakers which are 8 ohm. So I went to Best Buy picked up a Sony str-dh750 which didn't cost much 350$. The reason I bought Sony is my tv is a newer 4K Sony.
Hooked everything up Doesn't sound to great. I just want 4 speakers instead of the home theater thing. The only music at this time is on my iPad and what's on my comcast demand channel. So any advice would help.
My budget is 4K.
Chuck

The amount of bad information given on here is astounding. I would not try to make a 4 channel setup with different speakers. those klipsch speakers are massively under powered by the sony receiver. i too have a sony 4k tv the 850c 55 incher. I would buy a really good dac (Digital audio converter) for the optical output or maybe the newer oppo 203 uhd bluray player that has built in akm dacs for $500. stay two channel and get rid of those rear definitives. You can set up a four speaker system with a phantom center channel with those klipschs but i wouldnt recommend it. I currently have an emotiva a300 which has plenty of power for $339 and a schiit 4490 akm dac ($399) and a passive schiit sys preamp all connected to my sony tv. Schiit is going to come out with the Vidar amp for $699 sometime in late february which is supposed to compete with amps 3-4 times its cost. I would even consider having your klipschs have their crossovers rebuilt with higher quality crossover components. With proper amplification and super high quality two channel audio processing you can have state of the art two channel system.

Recommendation.
Emotiva a300 ($339) amp or vidar $699
Schiit dac 4490 ($399) or schiit magni multibit $249) or oppo 203 $499
Schiit Sys ($59).... Schiit saga ($349) or freya ($699) two channel preamp with remote
Rebuilt crossovers for klipsch...

for $2000 or less you have close to state of the art two channel sound system.

 

[lovinthehd]

The amount of bad information given on here is astounding. I would not try to make a 4 channel setup with different speakers. those klipsch speakers are massively under powered by the sony receiver. i too have a sony 4k tv the 850c 55 incher. I would buy a really good dac (Digital audio converter) for the optical output or maybe the newer oppo 203 uhd bluray player that has built in akm dacs for $500. stay two channel and get rid of those rear definitives. You can set up a four speaker system with a phantom center channel with those klipschs but i wouldnt recommend it. I currently have an emotiva a300 which has plenty of power for $339 and a schiit 4490 akm dac ($399) and a passive schiit sys preamp all connected to my sony tv. Schiit is going to come out with the Vidar amp for $699 sometime in late february which is supposed to compete with amps 3-4 times its cost. I would even consider having your klipschs have their crossovers rebuilt with higher quality crossover components. With proper amplification and super high quality two channel audio processing you can have state of the art two channel system.

Recommendation.
Emotiva a300 ($339) amp or vidar $699
Schiit dac 4490 ($399) or schiit magni multibit $249) or oppo 203 $499
Schiit Sys ($59).... Schiit saga ($349) or freya ($699) two channel preamp with remote
Rebuilt crossovers for klipsch...

for $2000 or less you have close to state of the art two channel sound system.

What a bunch of Schiit you throw around yourself!

 

[lovinthehd]

The OP may be better off with just two speakers, and I'd go for the Klipsch if I had to pick a pair. However, he wanted four speakers. Whether he imagined this setup as surround audio, or duplicating two channel with two pairs of L/R speakers in the same room for "moar" hard to know. That the Klipsch need any additional amp is kinda nuts at most sane volume levels, though. They are rated 98dB sensitivity (and from a time period when Klipsch was a bit more believable in that respect), max power of 100watts and nominally 8 ohm so his current amplification is fine unless he's trying to put on concerts or something.

I'm not in the club of listening to 2ch stuff only in 2ch, depends on what it is. There's a fair amount of music I listen to doesn't have stage positioning either, it was mixed on a board, not particularly performed on a stage (or only performed on stage due to the necessities of touring). Matrixing 2.0 into multi-ch may be anathema to a few, though.

 

[gzubeck]

The OP may be better off with just two speakers, and I'd go for the Klipsch if I had to pick a pair. However, he wanted four speakers. Whether he imagined this setup as surround audio, or duplicating two channel with two pairs of L/R speakers in the same room for "moar" hard to know. That the Klipsch need any additional amp is kinda nuts at most sane volume levels, though. They are rated 98dB sensitivity (and from a time period when Klipsch was a bit more believable in that respect), max power of 100watts and nominally 8 ohm so his current amplification is fine unless he's trying to put on concerts or something.

I'm not in the club of listening to 2ch stuff only in 2ch, depends on what it is. There's a fair amount of music I listen to doesn't have stage positioning either, it was mixed on a board, not particularly performed on a stage (or only performed on stage due to the necessities of touring). Matrixing 2.0 into multi-ch may be anathema to a few, though.

All Blurays have dedicated 2 channel pcm output. unless you have a large 15X20 foot room you dont even need a center. The reason why I mention the schiit stuff is because theyre the best at their price point for two channel. If you want surround sound then maybe emotiva $599 surround preamp mc700 and the A500 amplifier at $424. The oppo has I think an HDMI input but might not be the most versatile component for video and surround processing. Doesnt matter what manufacturer you have they should all have the phantom channel option in the setup. Some of the best sound setups dont even have a center channel if setup properly. The main problem is that silverfox wants to use different speakers in his setup that might be a little difficult to set up. but for a $1049 dollars with the emotiva setup he could have a good sound situation for four channels. I dont recommend receivers because their failure rate is high that within 1-3 years somethings going to fail not to mention a poor bang for the buck. the sony receiver he has is probably cheap junk that doent have the best specs of true amplification power. enough schiit said! :>)

 

[gzubeck]

I ran across tis youtube video with what looks to be quality components hooked up to the klipsch type forte speakers to show off what quality components can do for klipsch speakers.

 

[lovinthehd]

I ran across tis youtube video with what looks to be quality components hooked up to the klipsch type forte speakers to show off what quality components can do for klipsch speakers.

The components play a small role, they're worth much more than schiit in other words

ps If you judge audio by a youtube video I'd say that's worth schiit.

 

[gzubeck]

The components play a small role, they're worth much more than schiit in other words

ps If you judge audio by a youtube video I'd say that's worth schiit.

then dont buy it. I disagree with your comments. you can definitely tell that the speakers and equipment are projecting quality imaging and soundfield. If you cant tell then maybe your just internet trolling. so far I havent read any posts by you that show any practical knowledge or capability. Just alot of oneliners to frustrate other posters. Go ahead and provide links of your idea of good but reasonably economical equipment.

 

[Silverfoxvtx]

Wow......Thanks everyone for the good responses...I am here listening to a old album The Cars and have it cranked a little. It is coming across my Apple Music it is not to bad.
After reading everyone's response what I want is surround, 4 speakers basically putting out the same. The Definitive speakers can't keep up with the Klipsch so I was trying to crank them up a little louder to even the sound out. So I had the Klipsch at 5 front left and right. The Definitive at 8 sur left and right with no center. That sounded good. So back to watching TV everything is screwed up with no center and the sur not working.I like all 4 speakers working when I am watching tv too.
Is it possible to get a system with Bluetooth,Airplay HDMI Inputs, is the answer Amp and Pre Amp.I would like to hook-up everything with hdmi connections if I start over..I have enough money to start over with everything.
I live in the Tacoma Wa area and my email is silverfoxvtx1800@Msn.com
Chuck

 

[gzubeck]

Wow......Thanks everyone for the good responses...I am here listening to a old album The Cars and have it cranked a little. It is coming across my Apple Music it is not to bad.
After reading everyone's response what I want is surround, 4 speakers basically putting out the same. The Definitive speakers can't keep up with the Klipsch so I was trying to crank them up a little louder to even the sound out. So I had the Klipsch at 5 front left and right. The Definitive at 8 sur left and right with no center. That sounded good. So back to watching TV everything is screwed up with no center and the sur not working.I like all 4 speakers working when I am watching tv too.
Is it possible to get a system with Bluetooth,Airplay HDMI Inputs, is the answer Amp and Pre Amp.I would like to hook-up everything with hdmi connections if I start over..I have enough money to start over with everything.
I live in the Tacoma Wa area and my email is silverfoxvtx1800@Msn.com
Chuck

Chuck, You might want to contact onecall.com in Spokane Washington. they actually might have more than one store in your state with a much larger selection than what they can sell online and you can demo them in the store. Im hesitant about receivers because they tend to fail alot by overheating and they simply do not have enough true amp power unless theyre the larger and more expensive receivers. What alot of people do is buy a decent receiver with preouts to an external amp as one solution. The sony receiver that you bought does not have enough power. Maybe not until you get to the sony es level will you get a little more power to drive your klipschs and the definitives. The speaker ohm rating is also probably diferent between the two sets of speakers. you need to do research on this. The klipsch speakers you have are pretty good when powered adequately. the definitives use diffused sound tech that would be fine for surrounds.

 

[gzubeck]

Chuck, I must ask you what is the sensitivity rating of those fortes? Are these the forte i or forte iis. I just found out that the klipschs are really sensitive speakers. That might explain why you have to really modify output between the two. The definitives are going to be much lower than those fortes. Thats whats giving you an unusual off experience. Also, you might want to try your receiver with only driving the klipschs to get a feel for any power increases without the definitives hooked up. The new klipsch forte III are going to retail for $3800 dollars according to klipsch at CES 2017. In 1990 the forte IIs were $1500 retail.

I also found this website that deals with classic speakers. A must read for a possible center channel! critesspeakers.com

 

[lovinthehd]

then dont buy it. I disagree with your comments. you can definitely tell that the speakers and equipment are projecting quality imaging and soundfield. If you cant tell then maybe your just internet trolling. so far I havent read any posts by you that show any practical knowledge or capability. Just alot of oneliners to frustrate other posters. Go ahead and provide links of your idea of good but reasonably economical equipment.

Why on earth would I buy schiit products? Life's too short. You can't tell schiit from a youtube experience, sorry. I have more practical experience than you've lived years so far.

 

[gzubeck]

Why on earth would I buy schiit products? Life's too short. You can't tell schiit from a youtube experience, sorry. I have more practical experience than you've lived years so far.

Your right. Dont buy their products. Buy something else. Yes I can...How many speakers have you built or designed?

 

[lovinthehd]

Your right. Dont buy their products. Buy something else. Yes I can...How many speakers have you built or designed?

You mean you're? I have no need of anything schiit sells and I do buy what I need. I have no idea where your logic is taking you at this point....if you want to tell us all about the speakers you've built and designed and how schiit products are integral to your efforts, please elucidate...

 

[gzubeck]

You mean you're? I have no need of anything schiit sells and I do buy what I need. I have no idea where your logic is taking you at this point....if you want to tell us all about the speakers you've built and designed and how schiit products are integral to your efforts, please elucidate...

you make claims about my knowledge level without actually knowing me is the point. you need to stop! i dont have experience with every speaker manufactured but I do know alot and have built my own speakers for years.

 

[lovinthehd]

you make claims about my knowledge level without actually knowing me is the point. you need to stop! i dont have experience with every speaker manufactured but I do know alot and have built my own speakers for years.

I'm sorry but the schiit thing is just too funny.....that's why they used the silly name in the first place, right? You can buy their stuff if you need it I suppose but I seriously would never consider anything they sell. It's fluff IMO.

 

[KenM10759]

They (Schitt) actually make some really good "stuff." The OP simply doesn't need it, Chuck needs a center speaker and perhaps matching Klipsch surrounds.

It goes against the grain here but there are times when I'm listening to certain types of music and I'm not "sitting in the sweet spot" that I push the mode button on my NAD T758 receiver to put it in their "Enhanced Stereo" mode. That gets me 4.1 of my 5.1 speaker system and it's fine. That's about 1% of my listening, but it's super easy to get in and out of that mode.

And my receiver (rated at a lowly 60 watts per channel, all 7 driven) goes plenty loud with far less efficient speakers. The room is 13.5' x 19' x 7.5' and open 1/2 of the left side. I have pre-outs and could add amps, but for who...my neighbors down the street?

 

[gzubeck]

They (Schitt) actually make some really good "stuff." The OP simply doesn't need it, Chuck needs a center speaker and perhaps matching Klipsch surrounds.

It goes against the grain here but there are times when I'm listening to certain types of music and I'm not "sitting in the sweet spot" that I push the mode button on my NAD T758 receiver to put it in their "Enhanced Stereo" mode. That gets me 4.1 of my 5.1 speaker system and it's fine. That's about 1% of my listening, but it's super easy to get in and out of that mode.

And my receiver (rated at a lowly 60 watts per channel, all 7 driven) goes plenty loud with far less efficient speakers. The room is 13.5' x 19' x 7.5' and open 1/2 of the left side. I have pre-outs and could add amps, but for who...my neighbors down the street?

Loud or clean and loud with good imaging. But given the sensitivity rating even a very good 50 watt amplifier may be all thats needed with 99db sensitivity. chuck, the center channel can be made by critesspeakers.com. that why I included the link as well for crossover rebuilds too.