JBL LS60 (and LS80)

speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Answer in post 21
My daughter lives in Medina, TN which is close to Jackson, TN. Have nieces and nephews that live in Franklin, TN just outside of Nashville. You are way over on the other side. Congrats on the big move. Hope it is an easy transition for you.

Cheers,

Phil
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
The measurements were more for the thread in general, figured you'd already seen them :). I couldn't find any for the LS60.

Hope the move goes well for you; I hate moving, done it many times (and will not again unless I'm somehow forced to before I croak).
Moving is always a little challenging - however new adventure and settlement can be worth it.
And in the end the challenging will not subtract from it.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Well, from those measurements it looks like you should wait for the PSB's to go on close-out sale, and maybe you should stash away some reserves to buy off anyone trying to bring the Cantons into your house. That's one seriously bad frequency response.
Wow! That doesn't look pretty.

Steve Holden measured the ls80 and it looks superb!
However, I am a bit troubled by another FR Chart he presents which looked bad (Graph 2). He explained it away as follows (Graph 1 is the superb FR):

The measured high-frequency performance of the LS80 has no doubt been influenced partly by the horn loading of the tweeter, but more so by path length interference effects. It’s all these that combine to deliver the ‘jagged’ appearance of the trace. In fact, the Q of the peaks and valleys is so high that to the human ear the response would sound ‘smooth’, so that the overall response would be as shown in Graph 1. However, you can see that the excursions are not excessive in any case, amounting to around ±4.5dB.
Click on the "Test Results" link under "Conclusion"
http://www.avhub.com.au/product-reviews/hi-fi/jbl-ls80-loudspeakers-review-test-page0-392590

If you would kindly shed light on this, I would appreciate it.
Primarily, is it appropriate to so readily discount the apparent issues showing in Graph 2?
Thanks!
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
That speaker may not sound nearly as bad as that frequency response looks. First of all, the author is correct that high Q peaks are not as offensive or as audible as low Q peaks, even when the high Q peaks occur at larger amplitudes¹. Furthermore, the interference caused by the path lengths of the horn would be a matter of distance and angle, and so do not become as serious of a problem when room reflections are added in where they can be averaged out. This is opposed to a speaker resonance that occurs at all angles and every distance which will not be disguised by room acoustics. I bet if you looked at a Listening Window response or an Early Reflections response, the curves would look much better than a frequency response taken with a pure test tone at one distance on one axis.

References:
1: Toole, F.E., and S. E. Olive, “The Modification of Timbre by Resonances: Perception and Measurement,” J. Audio Eng, Society, vol. 36, pp. 122-142 (1988 March).
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
It is all about your ears, preference, and room placement - as graphs do not tell the whole story
for the overall sound experience.

For some it will be an adjustment to horns, for others it can be a nice awakening and experience.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
B

Beave

Audioholic Chief
Wait, I'm confused (or some of you guys are). What's wrong with the Russian plot of the Cantons? It's actually one of the better freq resp of that group of speakers.
 
ATLAudio

ATLAudio

Senior Audioholic
Kurt and I gave these an audition in my room against my Klipsch RF 62 II using my Denon x4000 and a Denon 2308, line level matched by ear, and switching receivers to each speaker on pure direct. Using a Sharp Blu-Ray which I believe does a better than average job with CDs for a BRP, playing Dire Straits; Brothers in Arms.

The Klipsch was better in almost every respect; our mutual agreement. There's some moments of brilliance with the JBL product, but those rare occurrences were more of a matter of preference, not superiority over the Klipsch. However, I can't overstate this; the JBL sound great and I'd still recommend them, especially at this deal.

The JBL cabinet was gorgeous, and their overall form factor made them more pleasing than the monolithic looking Klipsch towers. I imagined having these in a living room instead of my rec room/HT, and being perfectly happy with them there in a 2.0 arrangement. However, they are top heavy AF. I was constantly having to run my three year old out of the room as it was a legitimate concern. There are some spikes and plates feet we didn't install which might help, but I can't see it helping much.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I want to listen to a broader array of music before passing the final verdict for music, but I agree with everything ATLAudio said.
On paper, one of the appeals of this JBL system for me was believing that , since this speaker uses a horn, it would have the same sort of microdynamics and "impactfulness" that make the Klipsch such an exciting speaker for HT.

Just to recap my experience with the Klipsch - it is absolutely is not a harsh speaker (which surprised me because that was my experience in the mid-70's when I listened to lots of speakers, and it has continued to be repeated on audio forums, so I expected it). I feel the Klipsch is a good overall speaker and was a steal at the "fire sale" prices they occasionally have with discontinued models. It is an outstanding HT speaker because the horns seem to cast sounds closer to you than actual distance of the speaker, presenting an immediacy which is very exciting for action movies.
For acoustic music, and as someone who hears live acoustic instruments at least 3 times a week, this immediacy is not realistic. It still sounds good, but while having more "vivid" sound for HT is fun, it is not quite as it should be for music. In all fairness, I have a very similar issue with all Magnepans or ML Electrostats I have heard, so don't think it would bother everyone by any means. For non-acoustic music, I do not have an issue with this. Klipsch has a great marketing campaign with "slogans" on the box like "pissing of the neighbors for 75 years" (I probably don't have the number of years right, but you get the idea). For music like Rock, they have wonderful slam and an "in your face" vibe and energy that is pretty great!

So, the Klipsch work well for me as HT and I often use them for daily casual listening to Pandora.
In comparison, the JBL forfeited much of what makes the Klipsch such a wonderful HT speaker. That quickly rules it out as a replacement for the Klipsch. I was surprised that the nature of this JBL w/horn was so different; however, several reviews I read on the JBL (ls60 or ls80) pointed out that these did not have the traditional "JBL sound" which I believe to be a forward sound more like the Klipsch.

In any case, I look forward to putting these to the test as music speakers and seeing how they compare to some others. They did not fare well against the Klipsch on Dire Straits "Brothers in Arms", but I did not have my CD with me to listen to the wide array of music I like to trial speakers with.
I hope to get this done this week and will post the results.

Edit: I am surprised that JBL did nothing to widen the stance of these speaker to increase stability. They are slimmer than the Klipsch (which also have out-riggers to widen the stance). If i kept them, I would probably add a plinth or something to increase stability (and I have neither kids nor animals to worry about).
 
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KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Wait, I'm confused (or some of you guys are). What's wrong with the Russian plot of the Cantons? It's actually one of the better freq resp of that group of speakers.
I mixed them up with the Ceratec Effeqt T MKIII chart! The way the charts are labeled on the Russian site is inconsistent.
 
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