Is my 60hz TV truly 24p capable?

S

skytra7

Audioholic Intern
I have Samsung 60z TV Model.No: UN46EH5300F) that I use to stream 24p connect from Kodi.

All looks good and when pressing 'O' Kodi shows that 24p content is being revcieved and outputted at 24p. My TV inturn also notifies me with a popup info box showing that tv is in 24p mode.

In spite of this I have seen various articles starting that many 60z TVs aren't truly capable of 24p mode and are just doing some sort of pull down to compensate.

I've heard that the only way to get true 24p viewing is that you need a TV which refreshes at least 120hz.
Can any body with tv tech knowledge confirm this be true or not? Because if so, looks like I'll have to shell out to get a new 120hz TV.

Many thx for any help.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
120Hz will not have any bearing on 24p. 24p is a separate process from the refresh rate so your TV's capability to display it is based on that, not the refresh rate and it sounds like yours supports it. 120Hz refresh rate affects fast motion mainly and essentially isn't real either, but if you watch a lot of sports or play video games, it may be a benefit.
 
S

skytra7

Audioholic Intern
Thx for your help, as I said there seems to be lots of confusion on this issue. Do you think the instruction manual would be able to help me determine if the TV is truly 24p capable (without conversion pulldown) and if so what should I look for?

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Count the frames, if you get 24 per second you're golden :) FWIW even 24fps film is usually manipulated somewhat in the movie theater....just an old film standard.
 
S

skytra7

Audioholic Intern
Count the frames, if you get 24 per second you're golden :) FWIW even 24fps film is usually manipulated somewhat in the movie theater....just an old film standard.
Thx for reply, yes to be honest I'm starting to think that if it looks good it's good. When my TV does display 24p it did seem to look smoother...

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Thx for reply, yes to be honest I'm starting to think that if it looks good it's good. When my TV does display 24p it did seem to look smoother...

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
What doesn't look good is that damn signature ad from tapatalk....can you please remove it? Thanks! :)

I wouldn't buy another lcd for that...and unless you have overt viewing problems don't worry and enjoy the show!
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Thx for your help, as I said there seems to be lots of confusion on this issue. Do you think the instruction manual would be able to help me determine if the TV is truly 24p capable (without conversion pulldown) and if so what should I look for?

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
If the program coming in is 24p no conversion is needed to display 24p. The TV software can do an awful lot if different processing. If the TV shows 24, that is what is going on with a 24p feed to it.
 
J

Jeffrey S. Albaugh

Audioholic
The worst thing about 60 Hz is that during fast moving action & sports, the image can smear. It can't keep up with fast moving scenes. Not good for Sports enthusiasts. Also, you won't be happy if there are scenes with bullets flying, or aircraft flying by. Many consumers don't know what to look for and may not even notice it. They are not discerning viewers.
 
S

skytra7

Audioholic Intern
The worst thing about 60 Hz is that during fast moving action & sports, the image can smear. It can't keep up with fast moving scenes. Not good for Sports enthusiasts. Also, you won't be happy if there are scenes with bullets flying, or aircraft flying by. Many consumers don't know what to look for and may not even notice it. They are not discerning viewers.
If the program coming in is 24p no conversion is needed to display 24p. The TV software can do an awful lot if different processing. If the TV shows 24, that is what is going on with a 24p feed to it.
So to summarize, basically my 60hz tv is capable of showing 24p tv shows normally without conversion/pulldown, but TVs with higher refresh rates will look better and smoother with regard to fast moving scenes?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
So to summarize, basically my 60hz tv is capable of showing 24p tv shows normally without conversion/pulldown, but TVs with higher refresh rates will look better and smoother with regard to fast moving scenes?
I think you are still confusing refresh rates, at least 60 and multiples of 60, with original input frames per seconds. Film, BD are at 24 frames per second. TV programs are 60 frames per second.

If you up the refresh rate from 60, perhaps this can be done with BD not sure, the TV software makes guesses where the information should be in between frames to appear a smoother motion.
There is no downward refresh rates.

The BD 24 frames can be upscaled though to 60 frames with what you call the pulldowns.
 
S

skytra7

Audioholic Intern
I think you are still confusing refresh rates, at least 60 and multiples of 60, with original input frames per seconds. Film, BD are at 24 frames per second. TV programs are 60 frames per second.

If you up the refresh rate from 60, perhaps this can be done with BD not sure, the TV software makes guesses where the information should be in between frames to appear a smoother motion.
There is no downward refresh rates.

The BD 24 frames can be upscaled though to 60 frames with what you call the pulldowns.
Thanks sincerely for advice...I just restumbled on this article....I should have reworded my original post. What I meant was can my 60hz tv play back 24p source without judder....this article explains what I was 'trying' to say lol

http://ca.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/24p
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks sincerely for advice...I just restumbled on this article....I should have reworded my original post. What I meant was can my 60hz tv play back 24p source without judder....this article explains what I was 'trying' to say lol

http://ca.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/24p
Well, don't know. Is your TV listed on that list?

I would have thought that at 24p, that would be the refresh rate or maybe 48, not 60. I would think that 60i/p would be refreshed 60 times unless unless you tv can do multiples of it.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I have Samsung 60z TV Model.No: UN46EH5300F) that I use to stream 24p connect from Kodi.

All looks good and when pressing 'O' Kodi shows that 24p content is being revcieved and outputted at 24p. My TV inturn also notifies me with a popup info box showing that tv is in 24p mode.

...
Just to reassure you, I chatted with Samsung and this is what happens, displays 24 FPS.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
There are any number of ways displays can show 24fps original content. For years the use of 3:2 pulldown was commonplace, but this introduces judder which is not a good thing.

Early TVs which properly handled 24fps content would often operate at 72 or 96hz. Then they would replay the same frame 3 or 4 times. 3:3 or 4:4 is what is is typically called, but it's just reflashing the same image several times on screen. This is actually similar to what theaters do as most (I believe) double or triple flash the same frame of film, when they use film projectors. Most are digital now.

Now with 120Hz+ displays, you will often get 5:5 display of 24Hz sources and 2:2 display of 60Hz sources. So, you get a true one-to-one conversion of the image.

This still isn't a guarantee, and you have to look up one-by-one which displays properly display 24Hz material at a frame rate which is directly compatible.

Samsung seems to be marginal to weak with many of their displays unfortunately. So, my expectation is that this is not going to be dealt with properly. If you have any motion correction, then you may be able to clean up some judder effects, but that would be determined by the controls you have. I typically see the impact most obviously with the text scrolls during titles and work to clean that up as much as possible, without adding any of the nastiness that CFI can introduce (soap opera effect).

Since manufacturers rarely tout properly 24fps support, you really have to go with reviews to see which ones handle it the best. I have been calling out 120hz for years with front projection. 3D often uses 144hz in front projection with a triple flash to each eye (72hz) for solid quality.
 
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