Is Integra's DTR-30.5 receiver the next $1000 power house?

Discussion in 'Amps, Pre-Pros & Receivers' started by admin, May 21, 2013.

  1. admin Audioholics Robot Staff Member

    admin
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    There may be a new kid on the block in the form of the Integra DTR-30.5 Wireless A/V receiver. Is a $1000 A/V receiver with Marvell Qdeo upconversion, 4K scaling, MHL, InstaPreview, and 95 watts per channel attractive enough to get on your short list?

    [​IMG]

    We have some thoughts about the new Integra DTR-30.5 A/V Receiver...
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2013
  2. MandM Enthusiast

    MandM
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    Just to clarify the DTR-30.5 weighs 22.3 lbs unboxed.
  3. PENG Audioholic Warlord

    PENG
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    As long as they maintain or increase output from the model they replaced, by improving their watts to weight ratio, it will be a good thing. Denon/Marantz/Yamaha have done it, time for Onkyo to follow. Modern technology should reduce weight, while improving quality and power output. So let's wait and see some lab measurements.
    PENG,
  4. rnatalli Audioholic Ninja

    rnatalli
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    What, no Audyssey XT?
  5. Cos Audioholic General

    Cos
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    Looks like its predecessor had a little more juice:

    Integra 30.4
    Rated Output Power All channels:
    • 100 watts minimum continuous power per channel, 8 ohm loads, 2 channels driven from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, with a maximum total harmonic distortion of 0.08% (FTC) (Others) 7 ch × 160 W at 6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 ch driven of 1% (IEC)
    • Maximum Effective Output Power (Others) 7 ch × 175 W at 6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 ch driven (JEITA)
    • Dynamic Power* * IEC60268-Short-term maximum output power 240 W (3 Ω, Front) 210 W (4 Ω, Front) 120 W (8 Ω, Front)
    • THD+N (Total Harmonic Distortion+Noise) 0.08% (20 Hz - 20 kHz, half power)
    • Damping Factor60 (Front, 1 kHz, 8 Ω)
    • Input Sensitivity and Impedance (Unbalance) 200 mV/47 kΩ (LINE)
    • Maximum RCA Output Level and Impedance: 2 V/2.2 kΩ (LINE OUT)
    • Frequency Response5 Hz - 100 kHz/+1 dB, –3 dB (DSPbypass)
    • Signal to Noise Ratio106 dB (LINE, IHF-A)

    Integra 30.5
    95 watts minimum continuous power per channel, 8 ohm loads, 2 channels driven from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, with a maximum total harmonic distortion of 0.08% (FTC) 115 watts minimum continuous power per channel, 6 ohm loads, 2 channels driven at 1 kHz, with a maximum total harmonic distortition of 0.7%
    • Maximum Effective Output Power (Others) 7 ch × 175 W at 6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 ch driven (JEITA)
    • Dynamic Power* * IEC60268-Short-term maximum output power 240 W (3 Ω, Front) 210 W (4 Ω, Front) 120 W (8 Ω, Front)
    • THD+N (Total Harmonic Distortion+Noise) 0.08% (20 Hz - 20 kHz, half power)
    • Damping Factor60 (Front, 1 kHz, 8 Ω)
    • Input Sensitivity and Impedance (Unbalance) 200 mV/47 kΩ (LINE)
    • Maximum RCA Output Level and Impedance: 4.6 V/470 Ω (PRE OUT/LINE OUT)
    • Frequency Response5 Hz - 100 kHz/+1 dB, –3 dB (DSPbypass)
    • Signal to Noise Ratio106 dB (LINE, IHF-A)

    -You are also giving up the THX2 Certification that the 30.4 had.
    -The 30.4 has 7 HDMI Inputs / 30.5 has 6 HDMI Inputs
    -While you don't get Audyssey XT, the MultiEQ is an upgrade over the 30.4
    -The 30.5 has the ability to pass through 4k and upscale where previous versions only upscaled
    -And of course Wifi & Bluetooth

    As I stated in an earlier post I bought this unit for my bedroom to drive 2 Golden Ear Aon 2 Bookshelf Speakers for mainly music. I will probably upgrade it to 5.1, possibly sooner now that Golden Ear has released some in wall speakers. Once I actually get the unit in, I will write a poor man's review
    Last edited: May 22, 2013
    Cos,
  6. scott911 Full Audioholic

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    weigth?

    Why would you care in the least about the weight?
    Perhaps, outside of shipping costs (and I'm not going to let that be a determining factor in an receiver or amp decision) why would you actively seek out a box with lower weight?

    Granted, I don't want to see the days of manufactures putting a lead slab below the circuit board to give the perception of quality - but weight still represents beefy power supplies and generous heat sink accommodation to ensure the longevity of the unit.
  7. PENG Audioholic Warlord

    PENG
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    Why would you go heavy with you can go light? Lighter means easier to handle, less likely to cause injury, lower shipping costs etc. I am sure you can also think of other good reasons to lean. In the old days cars were made with body on frame, typically heavier than today's unit body that has proven to be stronger, just more difficult to fix after a crash.

    Same principles in amps, transformers can be made much lighter by using more modern/advanced design and build technology. So are heat sinks and enclosure material, they too can be lighter by smart choice of material, albeit costs may suffer. Just an example, Alumininum is 3 times lighter than steel but is also more expensive. New models of Marantz now uses plastic as well as highly perforated sheet metal in their enclosures. Take a look of the AV7005, almost the whole top is perforated, that makes it lighter and ventilate better, saving a little bit of heat sink material I would guess. Part of the front is plastic.

    I too would like to see beefy power supply in amps, but they can be beefy without putting on excessive weight. The power supply transformer is probably the heaviest component in a power amp, and I would think that is where manufacturers can invest on transformers that offer high power to weight ratio. Years ago when I was shopping for big power transformers (>50 MVA), they weight tons but I was amazed with the difference in weight between the competing units, for basically the same power outputs and efficiencies. So no, we cannot judge or predict heavier means beefier power supplies, but yes, quite often it is a pretty good indicator. If you read HTM lab measurements you will notice that many lighter units did better to much better than many heavier units, so there are no shortage of real world examples. To be clear thought, I am only cautioning about jumping to conclusion just by noting the weight, not that I disagree with you or anyone who prefer heavier amps.
    PENG,
  8. Allan Audiophyte

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    Amplifier weight is a good indicator

    Transformers are heavy. Can't make power out of nothing, so weight does have a correlation to power. Less so to quality, but then better quality amps use more bias, leads to more heat, and thus more heatsink, which adds weight. It sounds like a great receiver for people on a budget who want all the latest features, plenty of people live in apartments and condos or use lifestyle speakers. The 'issue' with Onkyo is that they go into power limiting during testing, they are not capable of enduring abusive use like power measurements with all channels driven. The manufacturers that do not exhibit this behavior, and I would think operate with a greater margin, better built amplifiers.

    The Integra name originally was used for Onkyo's best of the best components, the most features and best performance. Sadly that has clearly been abandoned, the 'Integra' label has become meaningless marketing now. I'm not knocking the device in question, for a 1k dollars, i'm sure it's a good value. It's kinda hard to buy a bad receiver anymore. I'm just reminiscing about the Integra components I lusted after in the eighties. Those 2 huge power meters bouncing to the beat. It's really amazing that a stack of components are now replaced with one box a fraction of the size. Kinda miss all the leds and needles.
  9. PENG Audioholic Warlord

    PENG
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    No argument from me on these two points as they should be obvious to anyone who know something about power transformers.

    I only take issue with the kind of automatic assertion that a heavier, say 50 lb AVR will be more powerful than a 37 lb one, even when both are of class AB design. There are no shortage of lab measurements to support that such kind of automatic conclusions are not conclusive afterall.

    I am also saying as a matter of fact that:

    1) there are transformer out there that can produce more outputs per unit weight so an 8 lb transformer could be more powerful than a 12 lb one. Now if they are of the same design and built with the same kind of material, then yes the 12 lb one will invariable be more powerful.

    2) there are also other ways to reduce weight of an AVR, such as, use plastic, Aluminimum where possible, to replace sheet steel, more perforated surface area on the enclosure to reduce weight of the sheet metal while at the same time allowing the use of less heat sinks.

    So let's not beat the dead horse on this one because nobody is arguing the point that there are correlation between weight and power, of course there are, and of course transformers are heavy. So everything else being equal, the heavier one wins. The only not so obvious point is that everything may not be all that equal. That's it for me on this one.:)
    PENG,
  10. 3db Audioholic Overlord

    3db
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    I'm curious about QC which seems to plague this brand.
    3db,
  11. Cos Audioholic General

    Cos
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    I realize the Onkyo and Integra are the same company with near identical product lines, but it's been my experience that the Integra side has been reliable. It may be why they tack an extra 1 year on the warranty on Integra gear.
    Cos,
  12. Cos Audioholic General

    Cos
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    My 30.5 will be coming in this week, will give my first impressions once I get it setup.
    - Just running it with some Golden Ear Aon 2 Speakers right now, but will be expanding it shortly :)
    Cos,
  13. PENG Audioholic Warlord

    PENG
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    Quick review ASAP please..
    PENG,
  14. Cos Audioholic General

    Cos
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    It's In...Will be hooking up now :D will be playing with tonight View attachment 12065

    Heavy box, but definitely a lot smaller than my DHC-80.3 box! Price Paid $810 Need to learn how to shrink my pictures
    Cos,
  15. Adam Audioholic Jedi

    Adam
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    Congrats! I look forward to your thoughts on it.
    Adam,
  16. Cos Audioholic General

    Cos
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    Integra DTR-30.5 First Impressions: (Part 1 Setup and Video)

    Build Quality:

    • Build Quality of the DTR-30.5 appears to be excellent, but now without some small issues. The unit itself appears well built and solid, I would describe it as the “mini me” to my DCH-80.3. The interconnects appear to be gold plated and nothing on this unit feels flimsy. My only issues are the plastic speaker posts feel a little cheap and the wifi antenas look like something out of early 2000s. Just like its Onkyo brother, the DTR-30.5 does have an internal fan that audio purists may balk at. It is however important to note that the fan never came on during my testing, and is only designed to come on when the unit is getting pushed hard. So overall in this case I can live with the fan.
    • Remote Control: They definitely saved a few dollars on this. It just looks and feels cheap, small mushy buttons, for the cost of the unit, I expected better. Both the design and implementation are not well thought out.

    Setup:

    • This is one area where I felt that Integra did a fantastic job of implementing. It has very friendly menus to set up the receiver with multiple steps that you can either skip or follow through with. I like the Interface which is a simple GUI display that you can conduct the basic settings. The initial setup involved Audyssey , remote setup, etc. It makes it very easy to get started with your new AVR. I am not sure if the Integra .4 models do it this way, but I like it
    • Speaker setup / HDMI setup, Input setup is pretty straight forward and it’s very easy to adjust crossover, speaker setup etc. Nothing that is out of the ordinary
    • I like the walkthrough process for setting up the remote to control to your inputs. It goes over each assigned input when you are setting it up, walks you through the step on screen and even gives you the 5 digit code for the device. (I.e. 01877 for my cable box) It’s really a nice feature which makes programming simple, NOW if only the remote were better.
    • The menus to connect to one of its many online services is very simple to connect to and easy to use.
    Video:

    • I was really impressed with the video quality when I ran my cable through this unit. There was a significant improvement in perceived image quality vs hooking up directly from the cable box via HDMI. I really don’t think there is a placebo effect going on here as the picture quality was significantly better, colors seemed to pop more and there screen looked more detailed

    Problem: I did experience an issue with picture quality when I was watching a standard definition on demand program. SyFy channel with my provider only has on demand in 480i. I went to watch Defiance and when the picture displayed on the screen, It shrunk down to a smaller box in the middle of the screen and there was a line of artificating on the top border where there was no picture. I did expand the picture via my cable remote and the problem was fixed. This is something that my neither my 80.3 nor the Marantz 7005 (which I had for a few weeks) had problems with.


    Additional Observations:

    • WiFi is Wireless A/B/G/N, but it operates only on the 2.4Ghz bad and NOT the 5Ghz band. I discovered this when it would only pick up the 2.4ghz band of my dual band router. I would have preferred it to operate under the 5Ghz band because there is typically less traffic issues
    • It does have a lot of streaming services, but that is not really important issue for me
    • Bluetooth is 2.1 which I would have preferred it to be 4.0. I did have a problem connecting devices to it however
    • I was getting 85% signal strength one floor and 2 rooms down with the wifi antenas hidden behind the unit which was impressive

    Initial Thoughts:
    + Solid build with wifi connectivity and easy to use menu screens
    + The video processing seems to work quite well based on my limited time with it (minus issue)
    + Sound quality and amount of power has been quite good so far, but I am going to switch out my 80.3 with it tomorrow and use the pre-amp outs to see how it works with my exisiting paradigm setup.
    - Video issues with 480i contect on my cable box was limited to one experience, but was a point of concern
    - At this price point $1000 List $810 paid I think there are a lot of other options to consider

    Key Features I would have liked that are missing:

    • I would probably rate the receiver a B- so far because of a few issues;
    • It doesn’t have HD Radio
    • No Airplay
    • Nicer Remote

    Equipment Used in Testing:

    • Integra DTR-30.5
    • Sony KDL-52XBR5 TV
    • Golden Ear Aon 2 Speakers (1 Pair)
    • BJC for Speaker wire and HDMI
    • Linksys E4500 Wireless Router N Dual Band
    • Wide Open West Cable with Scientific Atlanta Cable Box

    I will get into detail on sound quality once I have had the opportunity to play around with the Audyssey, Integras new base management feature and testing it with my HT setup. I will say I have been happy with the initial sound quality coming out of the Aon 2s, but no where near enough to provide a intelligent review.
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2013
    Cos,
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  17. Cos Audioholic General

    Cos
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    I will be the first to say I am no expect :)

    This unit is made in Malaysia, not sure if that is a good thing.

    Integra DTR-30.5 First Impressions: (Part 2 The Sound!)
    Multiple Configurations:
    Soundstage 1&2: Hooked up to my existing setup: (16.5x18 Room)

    • CONFIG A: Replaced my DHC 80.3 w/DTR 30.5 used Pre-outs to my Halo Amps
    • CONFIG B: Replaced my DHC 80.3 w/DTR 30.5 used Receiver AMP
    CONFIG A: (Audyssey OFF)
    This would be the best apples to apples comparison I could do to see how my DTR 30.5 would do as a pre-amp and for the most part after multiple testing of both blue-rays and CDs I can happily report that the perceived difference in Sound Quality between both was minimal at best. For the Music Test I used Pink Floyd’s “Wish you were Here” “Comfortably Numb” Addel 21 “Don’t you Remember” & Miles Davis “Bye Bye Blackbird & “Blue in Green.” In both cases, instruments were easily distinguishable versus the cluttered mess of the noncalibrated audio, and the bass response was very good on both. Whether it was Addel’s vocals or Miles Davis Trumpet. The Pink Floyd was a live CD and even with Audyssey off you had the sense that you were still in the middle of a concert when I was playing multichannel Stereo. Since I don’t have the advantage of doing a side by side comparison I will say my only perceived difference was that the DHC-80.3 came across with a little more detail in the mid and lower level frequencies, but I think it would be very hard pressed to determine with a blind test.
    Movies: Avatar – Final Battle Scene / James Bond – Skyfall
    I would say again that it is very close here again, both units did a similar job with the highs and lows with the fight scenes, dialogue was clear and blended well. I will say again that the DHC seemed to squeeze out a little more detailed bass response, but the overall soundstage was pretty similar.
    Additional Comments: I utilized Integra’s new Phase Matching Bass which optimizes low frequencies while preserving mid-range clarity and I have to say I believe that its more than just marketing. I definitely felt that it did exactly as stated as there was a noticeable albeit minimal sound quality difference in the detail.
    CONFIG A: (Audyssey ON)
    I will state again, that without being able to do a blind test my feedback is perceived, but I firmly believe that there is a noticeable difference in sound quality with XT32 vs. MultiEQ. I would not go so far to say that it’s huge, but I would say I felt it was there. The overall surround effect under the DHC 80.5 felt more clearly defined in the low end and overall emersion with greater ease to tell where the sound was coming from in the movie.

    CONFIG B: (DTR-30.5 Internal AMP)
    I know that there has been much debate as to if AMPs sound different so I can only say, In My opinion, there is very little, if any sound difference between the DTR-30.5 hooked up to my external amps or its internal amps. Sound appeared to be similar, but again I felt that bass response and midrange clarity was better when hooked up to my Halo amps. To be honest after listening to the same things over and over I cannot say with 100% confidence that I would be able to tell a difference in a blind test, but I fell that I could as there was slight change in dynamics (guitar strings). I will note that in both cases with Audyssey turned On, the DTR-30.5 configured my speakers differently than the XT32.
    Take Aways:

    • Overall I am satisfied with the Integra DTR 30.5, for the price range you get a very solid receiver with a good user interface, very solid sound quality while also having the advantage of Bluetooth and build it Wi-Fi.
    • I was surprised how well it compared to my 80.3 as a Pre/Pro and felt as I didn’t lose a lot in sound quality with the exception of Audyssey.
    • Integra’s Phase Matching Bass is more than just marketing and it makes its sonic impact felt
    • I also felt that I didn’t lose a lot in sound quality when using its internal amp, but it was noticeable.

    My overall opinion is that I would rate this amp an 8/10. Items that brought down its score in my mind were a poorly implemented remote, would have liked to see at least Audyssey XT. I also think that there are a lot of other offerings in this price range $1000 retail/$810 Paid, that could offer the same quality with even more powerful amps and features. I do feel that it delivers solidly on sound quality and the advantage of having built it Wi-Fi makes it for much easier room placement in my bedroom and for this job it does a great job.

    Additional Thoughts:

    • This is currently used for two channel listening in my bedroom with a pair of Golden Ear Aon 2s, but after going through all these tests, I definitely feel that this AVR will stay with me for the long haul and handle 5.1 or 7.1 content like a champ when I expand.
    • DAMN! For small Speakers the Golden Ear Aon 2 does a fantastic job with both music and movies and it’s soundstage, high frequency clarity and detail IMPRESS. They do a great job with bass, but will struggle a little on the lowest frequencies. I will be adding a sub in the near future, but overall I see why people rave about the ribbon tweeters.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2013
    Cos,

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