Inwall Placement and other questions

ivseenbetter

ivseenbetter

Senior Audioholic
I’m looking at doing an inwall front stage for my theater room. I currently have Rocket 850s with a Bigfoot center (off note – these are up for sale so let me know if you are interested). They do a great job of filling my 5500 cubic feet room. I have been doing a little research right now and have pretty much settled on getting RBH 6000 speakers. I’m not totally tied into these yet so if somebody has a good argument for a different speaker I am all ears.

My main questions right now are

1. The room I am in is 16’ across on the wall where I will install them. Is there any good guidance on best placement of each speaker? Do they need to be so many feet from the side wall for the mains? I’m assuming tweeters need to be in line with the listeners ear.
2. I will be installing an acoustically transparent screen so the center speaker will be the same as my mains…but should I install it vertically or horizontally? I have heard that horizontal would create a wider sound stage…but I have also heard the vertical is the best since it puts the design of the speaker in line with the mains. Kind of confused on this.

I had thought about getting some speakercraft inwalls that allow me to “aim” so that I could still technically toe in my speakers but I just don’t know that they are as solidly built as the RBH.

Thanks guys
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
With an acoustically transparent screen, you can place your three front in-wall speakers in the ideal locations.

The original intention was to always have three identical speakers up front. The whole horizontal center speaker was always a compromise (and a fairly major one at that) in order to accommodate regular television displays in the home that would not allow for a center that is identical to the front L/R speakers. With your acoustically transparent screen, you can get back to the ideal design - with three identical speakers - all of them vertical with their tweeters at ear level.

The "aim-able" tweeters are a horrible marketing gimmick, IMO. By rotating the tweeter, but not the enclosure, you are creating massive diffraction problems and ruining the dispersion of your tweeter. Stick to a speaker that has fixed driver positions. I get the intuitive idea of aiming the tweeter, but when you measure the output and see how it destroys the sound quality, you'll understand that it's all marketing and zero science. Speakercraft is one of my most hated speaker companies. Their products are insanely over-priced. Custom installers love them because they cannot be purchased in stores or on the internet. They are strictly available through customer installers and they are the rip-off to end all rip-offs in my book.

Obviously, your center speaker goes dead center - vertical whenever possible and with the tweeter at ear level. The front L/R speakers have a range of acceptable angles. In many music-only systems, people prefer a wide position with the speakers 30 degree to either side of center - creating an equilateral triangle with the front L/R speakers and the seating position as the three points of the triangle.

For movies, the standard is to have the speakers closer together so that they are closer to the edges of the screen. THX recommends that the front L/R speakers be 22.5 degrees to either side of center. So, in general, for movies, you want your front L/R speakers to basically flank the screen so that sound cues follow the action on screen. And that will typically put them somewhere from around 20 to 30 degree to either side of center. Again, they will be vertical with the tweeters at ear level.

The RBH are a fantastic choice. When we talked about this in a previous thread, I also recommended the Paradigm Signature in-walls and I still do. But the RBH in-walls that you're considering are excellent and there is no real reason for you to worry about their quality or that you should be looking for something significantly better.

Any speaker should have at least 2 feet or more distance from the side wall (except for on-wall surround speakers, of course). That shouldn't be any problem for you is you stick to the THX or Dolby speaker placement guidelines :)

Best of luck!
 
ivseenbetter

ivseenbetter

Senior Audioholic
Excellent guidance! I really appreciate that. Definitely gave me some info that provided clear direction on what I should do I also appreciate the comments on my choice of speakers. I looked at the Paradigms that you suggested but I just couldn't get over the price difference. I will be looking into getthing the "Reference" version of the 6000 though.

Now I just need to sell my current system...and then start building my infinite baffle sub system. That should then free up the entire floor for the kids!
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Cool! I'm going to be super envious of you :D

Yeah, the main thing for me with the Paradigm Signature in-walls is that the Paradigm Be tweeter has just fabulous dispersion. It creates such a wide and even dispersion, so I really love it for situations where the speaker will not be angled towards the listening position. The price is certainly high though and it's definitely a matter of personal taste. There are plenty of people who would prefer the RBH speakers no matter what, so that is just my one opinion :)

I really, really love the upgraded Status mid-range drivers in the RBH SE/R speakers though. That mid-range driver is about as good as it gets to my ears, so that is a real treat if you can afford the upgrade. The regular SE drivers are certainly no slouch! But those SE/R Status drivers are just spectacular, so I never hesitate to recommend that upgrade ;)
 
ivseenbetter

ivseenbetter

Senior Audioholic
Are you familiar with the RBH 663 speaker? If so, which would you take? The 6000 or 663? I wonder because the 663 is supposed to replace the 6000 but I wonder if the added tweeter is worth sacrificing the mid-bass driver.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
I haven't heard the new SI-663, no. I'm only familiar with it by what I've seen written about it.

In general, I'm not a huge fan of using multiple tweeters unless they are arranged in a line array or a truncated line array (like in the T-Series RBH speakers. You run into too many combing problems otherwise.

The SI-663 would seem to be most useful when you take advantage of its special ability to be wired as two separate speakers. The design would allow you to have two woofers and one tweeter as the left or right channel and then the additional tweeter and woofer as the center channel. With two 663 speakers, you can create separate left and right speakers and then a dedicated "phantom" center speaker that is equally divided on both sides. It's a neat solution for situations where there is no physical space to mount a center speaker.

Personally, I would sooner step down to the SI-760 when it is possible to have three actual, separate speakers. The two additional drivers in the SI-6000 are more about added bass extension. They contribute to louder output capabilities as well - don't get me wrong. But it's largely about being able to play lower, which isn't really necessary if you have well integrated subwoofers.

The large SI-6100 is all about sheer output. It's for a very, very large room when you are sitting very far away. In that kind of setup, the combing that would occur due to the multiple tweeters would be largely ameliorated by the far away seating distance. In your room, you don't require that kind of sheer loudness. And the /R Reference tweeter is capable of some serious output on its own that should be well up to the task in your room size.
 
AVRat

AVRat

Audioholic Ninja
FYI, SpeakerCraft is now available from Amazon and on their LCR speaker types, the whole baffle pivots, not just the tweeter.:rolleyes:
 
ivseenbetter

ivseenbetter

Senior Audioholic
Another question on placement.

I'm going to put these behind an accoustically transparent screen (once I become confident enough to build it). Anyway, I wil be doing the inwall installation of the speakers myself. Should I worry if the center speaker isn't actually center of the screen by 4 or 5 inches? Unless I reframe the wall I will be at the mercy of the current wall framing when I install. Is a few inches either way on any of the front channels going to make much of a difference?
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Another question on placement.

I'm going to put these behind an accoustically transparent screen (once I become confident enough to build it). Anyway, I wil be doing the inwall installation of the speakers myself. Should I worry if the center speaker isn't actually center of the screen by 4 or 5 inches? Unless I reframe the wall I will be at the mercy of the current wall framing when I install. Is a few inches either way on any of the front channels going to make much of a difference?
4-5" is a very minuscule compromise, as it still will be better centered than most have it, and your three fronts will be closer to the same plane that most others get to enjoy. Then add vertical orientation and matching bonuses. Don't sweat it.

However, I have to ask, if this is an AT setup, why do you have to go with in-walls? IMO, inwalls represent less performance, and at a higher cost. The aesthetic looks of such in-wall speakers are wasted on you, since you won't even see them anyways, right? If you could just build it so the screen is in front of the wall just modestly, your options will multiply.
 
ivseenbetter

ivseenbetter

Senior Audioholic
Well, I currently have an 18 month old boy. Right now I have no problems keeping up with him and can ensure he hasn't played with any of my speakers...however, in about 3 months we will be having another little boy. Two of them may make it difficult to keep them off of the speakers and the subs...

So, I am sacrificing performance by getting inwall speakers. This way the floor is all for them and I don't have to worry about their "interest" in speakers.

Right now I am looking at getting RBH SI-6000R speakers...and I am hearing good things about them. Hopefully it won't be much of a performance loss compared to my rockets.
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top