Infinity/Revel experts Help

[Warpdrv]

I need some rear surrounds.... I have narrowed my choice down to 2 speakers, for their flexibility in my goofy setup...
These are switchable for multiple scenarios, which I really only want direct firing towards the LP.

I'm looking either the Infinity Classia C255ES or the Revel Concerta S12, I would prefer the speaker with the better drivers if there is a difference at all...

The Infinity Classia™ C255ES wall-mountable surround-effects speaker offers selectable monopole, bipole or dipole configurations for optimum surround configuration in any home theater system – with any film or music recording. Patented Infinity® Ceramic Metal Matrix Diaphragm (CMMD®) technology delivers accurate performance – with dramatically reduced distortion – for incredibly lifelike sound. In addition, the C255ES is capable of reproducing two discrete channels from one loudspeaker, making it perfect for upgrading to 7 channels using only five or six loudspeakers. The C255ES is also ideal for commercial or home applications where a single-point stereo loudspeaker is desired. Available in a cherry or high-gloss-black finish. Frequency Response (±3dB): 60Hz – 30kHz; 50Hz – 40kHz (–6dB) Recommended Power Amplifier Range: 10 Watts – 150 watts Sensitivity: 87dB Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohms Crossover Frequency: 2,300Hz; 24dB/octave Low-Frequency Driver: Two 5-1/4" (130mm) CMMD® High-Frequency Driver: Two 1" (25mm) CMMD Dimensions (H x W x D): 11-3/4" x 13-1/4" x 6-1/2" (298mm x 337mm x 165mm) Weight: 9.1 lb (4.1kg)

http://store.audioholics.com/product/2038/66209/infinity-classia-c255es-surround-speaker--each-cherry-

A truly multi-faceted performer, the Concerta S12 surround loudspeaker can be configured for different dispersion characteristics according to the type of surround effect desired as well as for different placements within the listening room. Featuring a pair of woofers with Organic Ceramic Composite (OCC) cones as well as a pair of OCC dome tweeters with neodymium magnets along with our proprietary Constant Acoustic Impedance technology, the S12 offers unparalleled surround sound versatility.
Specification Value
Sensitivity 87dB SPL with 2.83V @ 1m
Impedance 8 Ohms (nominal)
Filters (crossover) Two-way, high-order @ 2.5kHz
In-room Frequency Response 72Hz - 20kHz (±3dB)
Recommended Power Amplifier Range 20-120 watts
Crossover Frequency 2.2kHz
Dimensions height: 11.8" (29.9cm)
width: 13.3" (33.7cm)
depth: 7.0" (17.8cm) including grille
Product Weight 12.3lb (5.57kg) net (without packing)

http://www.revelspeakers.com/products/product.asp?product=22

Anyone here able to chime in with a little background knowledge of the drivers from basically the same company (Harman International.)

 

[lsiberian]

I need some rear surrounds.... I have narrowed my choice down to 2 speakers, for their flexibility in my goofy setup...
These are switchable for multiple scenarios, which I really only want direct firing towards the LP.

I'm looking either the Infinity Classia C255ES or the Revel Concerta S12, I would prefer the speaker with the better drivers if there is a difference at all...



http://store.audioholics.com/product/2038/66209/infinity-classia-c255es-surround-speaker--each-cherry-


http://www.revelspeakers.com/products/product.asp?product=22

Anyone here able to chime in with a little background knowledge of the drivers from basically the same company (Harman International.)

I'd expect thos Infinity's to be among the best dipoles around for low distortion sound, but I'm pretty sure the Revel will have a slightly better cabinet and finish. Driver wise the Classia is comparable to the Revels Same type of low distortion driver technology. I'm thinking they have a rebranded Cmmd for the Revel.

Are you planning to mod these or plug and play?

The Beta ES250 is comparable to the classia and sometimes can be found cheaper.

 

[Warpdrv]

My situation is strange, as the rear of my HT/great room is in a corner, so I was planning on only using 1 side of each of these speakers to fire into the seating location (Direct firing - not dipole), they are angled in a manor it would be a perfect answer to my weird layout, and yes basically just plug and play. I may play with the bipole/dipole to see how they sound back there though.

I have seen the Revel S12, Infinity Beta 250ES, and the JBL P520WS, & now the new Infinity Classia line as all being the same product.
The Classia & the Revel look to be using the ceramic drivers and the beta & JBL are not...

I am leaning towards the Classia for the wood finish, (looks nicer) but I can also get a huge discount from my dealer on the Revel. My preference would be to get the product with the best drivers as stated, but if the drivers are the same between the classia and the revel, I'd just go with the Infinity.

 

[lsiberian]

My situation is strange, as the rear of my HT/great room is in a corner, so I was planning on only using 1 side of each of these speakers to fire into the seating location (Direct firing - not dipole), they are angled in a manor it would be a perfect answer to my weird layout, and yes basically just plug and play. I may play with the bipole/dipole to see how they sound back there though.

I have seen the Revel S12, Infinity Beta 250ES, and the JBL P520WS, & now the new Infinity Classia line as all being the same product.
The Classia & the Revel look to be using the ceramic drivers and the beta & JBL are not...

I am leaning towards the Classia for the wood finish, (looks nicer) but I can also get a huge discount from my dealer on the Revel. My preference would be to get the product with the best drivers as stated, but if the drivers are the same between the classia and the revel, I'd just go with the Infinity.

All beta's use a Ceramic Metal Matrix. So yes they are all ceramic, but according to Wmax there was very little difference between the Beta and Primus drivers. The designer of the Beta series uses only a single in the rear I believe.

I know Revel will tell you they are different, but I don't buy it. The CMMD tech is used on the famous Kappa Perfect subs and makes them incredibly linear even towards their xmax. I don't think there are very many drivers in the class of the Infinity line. The only differences I might be concerned with are the build qualities. But you can always add some better bracing and rockwool to the beta's. In your position I would try to snag a single Beta from the HK Store maybe. I'd at least replace the dampening with rockwool or fiber and put a few rib braces in there. If this is mainly for movies you will be blown away. Nothing quite like the beta series for theater sound IMO.

 

[Warpdrv]

Ok here is a diagram of how my room is laid out... Like I said its a difficult situation, and I didn't want huge obtrusive speakers poking out from the corners.

In Scenario A with a Single rear surround, you can see where the drivers will be angled and somewhat firing directly into the wall... Maybe thats OK, I'd have to try it to see how it sounded, but it would be reflected sound. Maybe this would be my best bet while maintaining a minimalistic hidden method. It would certainly be much easier and cheaper this way. 1 Product handling both duties.

In Scenario B, using 1 side of each speaker, I will have the sound directed into the LP and more along the lines of what I was aiming for here...

 

[bandphan]

Id vote for the revel for cabniet construction/weight alone.

 

[Warpdrv]

Id vote for the revel for cabniet construction/weight alone.

Yes the Revel is heavier.... Then you look at this...

Now what is the difference... even heavier yet, so I am not convinced that they drivers in the Revel are any different then the Beta, at least not the Magnet Structure....

Infinity Beta ES250

Product Features

* Frequency Response (±3dB): 60Hz - 20kHz; 50Hz - 40kHz (- 6dB)
* Recommended Power Amplifier Range: 10 - 150 watts
* Sensitivity: 87dB
* Crossover Frequency: 2,300Hz; 24dB/octave
* Sold Individually

Technical Details

* Brand Name: Harman
* Model: ES250
* Speaker Type: Surround channel speakers
* Speaker Amplification Type: Passive
* speakers_maximum_output_power: 150 Watts
* speakers_response_bandwidth: 60 - 20000 Hz
* Speaker Connectivity: Wired
* Depth: 6.9 inches
* Height: 13.8 inches
* Width: 11.8 inches
* Weight: 12.6 pounds

 

[lsiberian]

I think most dipoles come in pairs. But like the one speaker idea the most. As you've said you would need to hear it.

I would just get the beta and mod them if necessary. This is a rear surround. But I don't like the look of the classias. I think they look terrible. I much prefer the revel lines finish and cabinets.

 

[Warpdrv]

I think most dipoles come in pairs. But like the one speaker idea the most. As you've said you would need to hear it.

I would just get the beta and mod them if necessary. This is a rear surround. But I don't like the look of the classias. I think they look terrible. I much prefer the revel lines finish and cabinets.

I was thinking that the taper of the cabinet of the infinity was just more optimistic looking to aim more outward if I was to use just a single unit.

The Revel and Beta have a different angle... though the difference is negligible..

 

[lsiberian]

Yes the Revel is heavier.... Then you look at this...

Now what is the difference... even heavier yet, so I am not convinced that they drivers in the Revel are any different then the Beta, at least not the Magnet Structure....

Infinity Beta ES250

They look like the same speaker internally almost. I would get the ES250. I'm thinking the revel is almost the same speaker.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Infinity-Beta-ES250-Surround-Effects-Speaker-PAIR_W0QQitemZ280350810914QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpeakers_Subwoofers?hash=item414635e322&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1205|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50

That's a slick deal if you won it for 200.

 

[Warpdrv]

I saw that one, I don't want white, and can't find New anywhere...

I may just have to make the step to getting The Revel...

 

[lsiberian]

I was thinking that the taper of the cabinet of the infinity was just more optimistic looking to aim more outward if I was to use just a single unit.

The Revel and Beta have a different angle... though the difference is negligible..

The dimensions, drivers and crossovers are nearly identical. The weight is identical. The Revel costs twice as much usually. I won't argue that some might prefer it's looks, but I see no reason to go with the Revel over the es250. Then again it's your ears. Revel can't be sold online from an authorized dealer. So you will need to buy them local. The ES250 is sometimes availabel from harman, but not often. Usually your looking a second hand.

 

[lsiberian]

I saw that one, I don't want white, and can't find New anywhere...

I may just have to make the step to getting The Revel...

I know the feeling. I wanted those speakers in black, but could never find them. So I eneded up with my KEFs through a stroke of craigslist luck.

Don't get me wrong the Revels are very nice speakers. Even if they are a tad on the expensive side for surrounds.

 

[bandphan]

Yes the Revel is heavier.... Then you look at this...

Now what is the difference... even heavier yet, so I am not convinced that they drivers in the Revel are any different then the Beta, at least not the Magnet Structure....

Infinity Beta ES250

I agree, but im thinking resonate properties only, especially in a single firing config.

 

[WmAx]

All beta's use a Ceramic Metal Matrix. So yes they are all ceramic, but according to Wmax there was very little difference between the Beta and Primus drivers. The designer of the Beta series uses only a single in the rear I believe.

MMD and CMMD are the same thing. The Revel cones are also the same, so far as I can discern. These cones use, per thickness, 20% ceramic/60% aluminum/20% ceramic sandwich construction, giving a total of 40% thickness being ceramic, 60% thickness being aluminum. The ceramic skins increase stiffness radically compared to normal aluminum or even magnesium cones, thus placing the first break up mode of the diaphragm at a much higher frequency, farther from the crossover point. The cones are created by using an anodizing process. However, instead of the normal thin (short time) layer usually applied, the metal is left to the process for a far longer time period, thus converting a much larger percentage of the metal to corundum as compared to standard anodizing process times.

The CMMD tech is used on the famous Kappa Perfect subs and makes them incredibly linear even towards their xmax.

CMMD on subs is sort of a gimmick. The motor on the Kappa Perfect subs is simply of very high quality/design.

-Chris

 

[lsiberian]

MMD and CMMD are the same thing. The Revel cones are also the same, so far as I can discern. These cones use, per thickness, 20% ceramic/60% aluminum/20% ceramic sandwich construction, giving a total of 40% thickness being ceramic, 60% thickness being aluminum. The ceramic skins increase stiffness radically compared to normal aluminum or even magnesium cones, thus placing the first break up mode of the diaphragm at a much higher frequency, farther from the crossover point. The cones are created by using an anodizing process. However, instead of the normal thin (short time) layer usually applied, the metal is left to the process for a far longer time period, thus converting a much larger percentage of the metal to corundum as compared to standard anodizing process times.



CMMD on subs is sort of a gimmick. The motor on the Kappa Perfect subs is simply of very high quality/design.

-Chris

Gimmickry seems to rule this hobby. I'm glad folks are out there to dispell it.

 

[Warpdrv]

Thanks for your help guys...

That helps narrow my choices down.... see if I can find some Beta 250's, otherwise I know what my secondary choices can be....

 

[Tomorrow]

I tried to buy these...which are perfect for my setup. I missed 'em by a day. You didn't snag these, did you, Warp? They're beauties. http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1248050527&/Infinity-Kappa-Suround-switcha

 

[Warpdrv]

Sure didn't, I would have paid more then that for them though.... wow...

Those are really nice looking, someone got a good deal.

 

[Tomorrow]

Sure didn't, I would have paid more then that for them though.... wow...

Those are really nice looking, someone got a good deal.

I doubt these come up very often...especially in cherry. I'm bummed. I've been dying to try dipole in my HT. Perhaps I'll go the used JBL way, myself. I can't see paying new prices for these dudes...JBL, Infinity (have you seen the new Classias? Only 9 lbs!? Plastic? I think AH has them on sale right now...http://store.audioholics.com/product/2038/66310/infinity-classia-c255es-surround-speaker--each-cherry-), or Revel.