In wall speaker for Rear Channels

Kruz

Kruz

Audioholic
On my road to setting up a 5.1 system I have now met with 3 different companies that run wiring in walls. All three have had apprehensions about the placement of my rear left speaker because it has to travel above the ceiling of the basement a fair length.

All three guys have recommended in ceiling speaker (sonos) to get around this issue for the 2 rear channels.

My heart was set on the ascend HTM 200 SEs for the rears but I'm worried about the running of the wires to the rear left. I'm picturing holes, long labor hours, etc.

Will I be sacrificing a lot of sound quality by going in ceiling for the rears? I do not listen to 5 channel music and will be using the system for equal amounts of gaming/ht/2.1 channel music.

The front three will be Salk Songtowers & Center with ribbon if that makes a difference.

All thoughts appreciated!
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Your thread says in-wall, are you really talking about in-ceiling?

Either one is OK for surrounds - However, I would prefer in-wall
over in-ceiling > and some in-walls can really be decent.

For in-ceiling I would want the best that I could afford.

With the Boston VSi series, you get an aimable tweeter with a waveguide,
and a boundary compensation switch - plus a higher-end Boston sound.
BOSTON ACOUSTICS VSi 570 6.5in In-Ceiling LCR Speaker Each | Accessories4less
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
In ceilings tend to be more diffuse than in-wall for surround duty when placed correctly (behind, not directly above). I was skeptical it would work for my friend, but he had a large area and no rear wall so he went in ceiling and it worked surprisingly well.

I presume the basement is finished or the wires would be running across numerous beams, which would make it more time consuming, so I sort of understand their assessment. If you are talking to AUDIO installers, then they may be right about your situation, however I've found that general contractors usually don't know squat about audio and install what they THINK will work, not what will actually be best. If they're running the wires up there, there's no reason you can't still use the HTMs with mounts.

What did Salk recommend for surrounds? Have you heard the HTMs? I don't really think the HTMs and the Songs are going to be well matched timbre wise, though it is less critical for surrounds. In this case though, I think they're going to be pretty different.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Believe it or not - an owner of the Salk Song towers (I believe dome tweeters), reviewed the
mid-level Boston Reflection Series towers - and said that the Boston speaker sound, did favor
the Salk Song sound.
 
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OKLAGMCRUISER

OKLAGMCRUISER

Audioholic Intern
My reply may not be the most "ideal", but it is an option that may cost you more, but would possibly get you what you want.

ok...here goes...lol...

Why not tear out a section of the ceiling of drywall to run the wiring and cut holes to pass wire through joists. Like I said above...it would be more costly and there would be a mess to clean up, but it would be to the liking of your original idea. Then a GC could have the drywall areas replaced, mud and repaint. It's a long shot, but would give you what you originally had your heart set on.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Why not tear out a section of the ceiling of drywall to run the wiring and cut holes to pass wire through joists. Like I said above...it would be more costly and there would be a mess to clean up, but it would be to the liking of your original idea. Then a GC could have the drywall areas replaced, mud and repaint. It's a long shot, but would give you what you originally had your heart set on.
It sounds like that's what the installers are trying to avoid.

Believe it or not - an owner of the Salk Song towers (I believe dome tweeter), reviewed the
mid-level Boston Reflection Series towers - and said, that they favored the Salk Song sound.
Doesn't surprise me at all. The tweeters on the Salk Songs are nice.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Doesn't surprise me at all. The tweeters on the Salk Songs are nice.
Maybe I wrote that wrong - he liked the Reflection series sound signature and the
overall sound, favored/likened to the Salk sound. However, and yes - he likes the
Salk speakers more.

However, Boston can be a closer match for surrounds.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
It sounds like that's what the installers are trying to avoid.

.
I don't get it, they still have to run wires for the in-ceilings. Why would it be tougher to do the HTMs than the in ceiling?
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I don't get it, they still have to run wires for the in-ceilings. Why would it be tougher to do the HTMs than the in ceiling?
That's what I already said. They're already running the wires, just use mounts for the HTMs. Or do drops through the walls and have wall plates.

Maybe I wrote that wrong - he liked the Reflection series sound signature and the
overall sound, favored/likened to the Salk sound. However, and yes - he likes the
Salk speakers more.

However, Boston can be a closer match for surrounds.
That makes more sense, and is probably a good bet.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
That's what I already said. They're already running the wires, just use mounts for the HTMs. Or do drops through the walls and have wall plates.
I'm guessing they don't wanna do the HTM cuz there isn't any $ in it for the installer. They want to sell the OP the in-ceilings?
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I'm guessing they don't wanna do the HTM cuz there isn't any $ in it for the installer. They want to sell the OP the in-ceilings?
Yep, a bit of both I'm sure. Easier for them (though lower total cost for the install too) and they sell some of their own products at markup prices. It isn't THEIR system though.
 
Kruz

Kruz

Audioholic
Thanks for the responses guys. Just some clarification.

I do mean in ceiling not in wall for the rears. The reason the installers (and yes they are all audio specialists) are favoring the in ceiling speakers is by nature they can cut a large hole for the speaker to fit into and then fish the wire more easily (and without another hole) from the utility room. With a book shelf they will not have a luxury of a large hole. Let me know if this make sense as its hard to explain.

J Garcia why do you think the HTM's will not match well to the Salks? The reason I went with them is because of Ascend's reputation and the fact that they are $600 cheaper than the Salk Song Surrounds. With the way the CAD is weakening against the USD I need any savings I can get.
 
Kruz

Kruz

Audioholic
If money was not an option I would go this route but that's not the case. I have a set budget for wiring and I'm hoping to stick to it without too many holes to patch up afterwards.

My reply may not be the most "ideal", but it is an option that may cost you more, but would possibly get you what you want.

ok...here goes...lol...

Why not tear out a section of the ceiling of drywall to run the wiring and cut holes to pass wire through joists. Like I said above...it would be more costly and there would be a mess to clean up, but it would be to the liking of your original idea. Then a GC could have the drywall areas replaced, mud and repaint. It's a long shot, but would give you what you originally had your heart set on.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Reputation doesn't have anything to do with the sound of a speaker :) I am a fan of the Ascends. They are both solid, but I don't think they are going to sound alike is what I mean. Can you get away with it for the price difference? Sure can :)

Yes, that makes sense why they want to punch a hole in the ceiling; again, to make it easier for them not to give you what you wanted.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
I do mean in ceiling not in wall for the rears. The reason the installers (and yes they are all audio specialists) are favoring the in ceiling speakers is by nature they can cut a large hole for the speaker to fit into and then fish the wire more easily (and without another hole) from the utility room. With a book shelf they will not have a luxury of a large hole. Let me know if this make sense as its hard to explain.
Got it. It is a matter of dealing with a small hole, patching a large hole, or just shoving a speaker into a large hole.

I guess it comes down to the labor and price difference for each option. But, patching holes isn't overly difficult.
 
Kruz

Kruz

Audioholic
You have a good point here. This is my project and at the end of the day I want to have bookshelf speakers hung from the ceiling for rears. I need to stick to my guns and make that happen.

I'm looking forward to just starting the project finally :). I've had three guys come in now and it feel nice to just get the ball rolling and stick to my decisions rather than let time make me second guess myself. On the plus side this third guy gave me a great suggestion to put all my sources in the nearby utility room (where the wire have to be run to anyway) for a really clean living room setup.

Reputation doesn't have anything to do with the sound of a speaker :) I am a fan of the Ascends. They are both solid, but I don't think they are going to sound alike is what I mean. Can you get away with it for the price difference? Sure can :)

Yes, that makes sense why they want to punch a hole in the ceiling; again, to make it easier for them not to give you what you wanted.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Where do you live?

EDIT: Never mind. I saw the reference to the Canadian dollar.

Do it like this. Knock the hell out of the drywall and put what you want where you want it and get the audio guys out.

Get a different guy in there to take care of the holes later. Do 'em yourself or get your wife's brother to do it. Whatever.

Make your kids paint it. You want to stretch this out for as long as possible.

That's how I would approach this.

I just hope you don't have a popcorn or textured ceiling.
 
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sawzalot

sawzalot

Audioholic Samurai
You have a good point here. This is my project and at the end of the day I want to have bookshelf speakers hung from the ceiling for rears. I need to stick to my guns and make that happen.

I'm looking forward to just starting the project finally :). I've had three guys come in now and it feel nice to just get the ball rolling and stick to my decisions rather than let time make me second guess myself. On the plus side this third guy gave me a great suggestion to put all my sources in the nearby utility room (where the wire have to be run to anyway) for a really clean living room setup.
If some installer can get a wire from the front avr through the front wall and then across the ceiling to do a ceiling mount he is surely good enough to go another 16 to 18 inches to do a ceiling mounted bookshelf, even if a minor patch and spackle is required at the speaker area. In the long run you get exactly what you want. What is above this ceiling, if it is carpet on the second floor cant you remove it from the tack strip and cutout an access hole in each bay where the speakers will be below, How will the installer get the wire at the front wall up inside the wall and through the wall plates and into the ceiling joist cavity without patching drywall.
 

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